Haswell i3-4150 vs FX 8320/e for budget gaming rig?

[Essence_of_War]

AtenRa,

I believe we are having a miscommunication principally over the meaning of the word "guarantee".

You're using the word to mean something like "every CPU I've seen can be OC'd to this without any trouble, and others who own it seem to corroborate it". This is not a typical usage for "guarantee". A guarantee of 4.4 GHz stable OC would mean something more like "AMD will accept a return and replacement of the CPU if it doesn't stable-y OC to 4.4 GHz". This is the usage everyone thinks you're using (because it is the common usage!).

So could you clarify what exactly you mean? If you mean there is something like a return/replacement, then could you link to it, and if you mean that this is the preponderance of evidence from owners/oc'ers threads, then could you stick to just saying that?

 

[Mallibu]

Nice try guys, i know its not easy when a AMD $110 CPU can be as fast when OCed as an Intel $229 but that is life get used to it

You made a claim and then failed to deliver the official evidence, and when confronted about it, your reaction is to respond with generic troll trash trying to save face? (In which things it is as fast? Games? Not in 95% of them)
This was the worst response in a logical debate I've ever seen dude. You can do better than that.

 

[mrmt]

Just my two cents for this discussion:

WARNING AMD and ATI processors are intended to be operated only within their associated specifications and factory settings. Operating your AMD or ATI processor outside of specification or in excess of factory settings, including but not limited to overclocking, may damage your processor and/or lead to other problems, including but not limited to, damage to your system components (including your motherboard and components thereon (e.g. memory)), system instabilities (e.g. data loss and corrupted images), shortened processor, system component and/or system life and in extreme cases, total system failure. AMD does not provide support or service for issues or damages related to use of an AMD or ATI processor outside of processor specifications or in excess of factory settings. You may also not receive support or service from your system manufacturer.

AMD does not guarantees 4.4GHz on the FX8320.

 

[AtenRa]

AtenRa,

I believe we are having a miscommunication principally over the meaning of the word "guarantee".

You're using the word to mean something like "every CPU I've seen can be OC'd to this without any trouble, and others who own it seem to corroborate it". This is not a typical usage for "guarantee". A guarantee of 4.4 GHz stable OC would mean something more like "AMD will accept a return and replacement of the CPU if it doesn't stable-y OC to 4.4 GHz". This is the usage everyone thinks you're using (because it is the common usage!).

So could you clarify what exactly you mean? If you mean there is something like a return/replacement, then could you link to it, and if you mean that this is the preponderance of evidence from owners/oc'ers threads, then could you stick to just saying that?

I never thought anyone would use the word guaranteed as a formal assurance of AMD or any other company when the subject was OVERCLOCKING. But it seams some people took the opportunity and did exactly that.
I thought it would be obvious that i was NOT talking about formal company assurances when I specifically talking about OVERCLOCKING. So to answer your question.
Yes when im talking about guaranteed 4.4GHz Overclock I mean, as i have originally said, that every FX 8320E will OC to 4.4GHz and it has nothing to do with any formal assurance.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Nice try guys, i know its not easy when a AMD $110 CPU can be as fast when OCed as an Intel $229 but that is life get used to it

Now you wanna compare OC to stock? And then disregard any additional cost to OC or the ability to OC both? And where did the documention go on your 4.4Ghz guaranteed?

 

[Essence_of_War]

I never thought anyone would use the word guaranteed as a formal assurance of AMD or any other company when the subject was OVERCLOCKING. But it seams some people took the opportunity and did exactly that.

I take issue with the implication that it's everyone else's fault. Your language was, intentionally or not, quite confusing.

 

[Kalessian]

People are being 'purpsefully obtuse'. I've seen the words "guaranteed overclock" used in the way atenra is using it since I joined the forums

EDIT: And if people are so concerned about data integrity, I hope those same people are using ECC ram

 

[ShintaiDK]

Yes when im talking about guaranteed 4.4GHz Overclock I mean, as i have originally said, that every FX 8320E will OC to 4.4GHz and it has nothing to do with any formal assurance.

But you dont know do you. You are simply making a guess. Also you cant guarantee the data safety in any way with your OC can you.

 

[AtenRa]

You made a claim and then failed to deliver the official evidence,

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/guaranteed

1. Something that assures a particular outcome or condition: Lack of interest is a guarantee of failure.
2. a. A promise or an assurance, especially one given in writing, that attests to the quality or durability of a product or service.
b. A pledge that something will be performed in a specified manner.

3. a. A guaranty by which one person assumes responsibility for paying another's debts or fulfilling another's responsibilities.
b. A guaranty for the execution, completion, or existence of something.

4. A guarantor.
tr.v. guar·an·teed, guar·an·tee·ing, guar·an·tees 1. To assume responsibility for the debt, default, or miscarriage of.
2. To assume responsibility for the quality or performance of: guarantee a product.
3. To undertake to do, accomplish, or ensure (something) for another: guaranteed to free the captives; guarantees freedom of speech.
4. To make certain: The rain guarantees a good crop this year.
5. To furnish security for.

and here is the one meaning everyone is ignoring here

6. To express or declare with conviction: I guarantee that you'll like this book.

I wonder why :whiste:

 

[ShintaiDK]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/guaranteed
and here is the one meaning everyone is ignoring here



I wonder why :whiste:

Because you mislead people unless you simply lack understanding of the guarantee you claim. Just admit you made a guarantee about a product that you cant document and cant uphold on. Not to mention all the rest of your misleading when you try to compare apples and oranges to sell another AMD product.

 

[AtenRa]

I take issue with the implication that it's everyone else's fault. Your language was, intentionally or not, quite confusing.

"I guarantee you my Core i7 3770K can OC to 4.4GHz."

Does that mean you are expecting a formal assurance in writing from me that my Core i7 can be OCed to 4.4GHz ???

dont think so

"Guaranteed" can be used outside of formal Company or individual written assurances. It could be an expression suggesting that it is assured that it will OVERCLOCK to 4.4GHz.

But if Phynaz was using the formal written assurance meaning of the word "guaranteed", in an OVERCLOCKED debate, it is not me that it should be questioned how im using the word but Phynaz.

Any way carry on, i dont want to derail this farther.

 

[Essence_of_War]

This:

I guarantee you my Core i7 3770K can OC to 4.4GHz.

and this:

A 4.4GHz is guaranteed on the FX8320E, every FX83xx can OC to 4.4GHz and that is a fact.

Carry completely different connotations. The former is a statement about one's own CPU, and unless you're saying something truly ridiculous ("I guarantee my i7-whatever can OC to 6GHz 24-7 stable!") it's an anecdote, and it could be true, but who cares.

The latter is a statement about ALL cpus of a particular brand, and a guarantee you can't possibly make without some additional knowledge, perhaps from the manufacturer, hence the confusion.

 

[AtenRa]

This:


and this:



Carry completely different connotations. The former is a statement about one's own CPU, and unless you're saying something truly ridiculous ("I guarantee my i7-whatever can OC to 6GHz 24-7 stable!") it's an anecdote, and it could be true, but who cares.

The latter is a statement about ALL cpus of a particular brand, and a guarantee you can't possibly make without some additional knowledge, perhaps from the manufacturer, hence the confusion.

As i have said before, EVERY FX8320E can OC to 4.4GHz. Others will need more voltage than others but every single one of them will OC to 4.4GHz and play games.

It is simple as that, period.

 

[Enigmoid]

I agree that guarantee is being used improperly.

Abwx would be perfectly justified in saying that almost every 8320E overclocks to 4.4 ghz or that you are virtually guaranteed a 4.4 ghz overclock but that is not the same as saying that every 8320E will reach 4.4 ghz, especially when AMD specifically states that they make no guarantees in overclocking.

However, this is all a question of schematics. If you buy a 8320E you can reasonably expect with a high degree of certainty that it will overclock to 4.4 ghz.

 

[Sweepr]

As i have said before, EVERY FX8320E can OC to 4.4GHz. Others will need more voltage than others but every single one of them will OC to 4.4GHz and play games.

It is simple as that, period.

Unless you are AMD (Are you? I could believe that), it's not guaranteed. Also stop derailing the thread with your propaganda.

 

[SlowSpyder]

Now you wanna compare OC to stock? And then disregard any additional cost to OC or the ability to OC both? And where did the documention go on your 4.4Ghz guaranteed?

Nothing wrong with comparing overclocked to stock. I don't know why people get so worked up over that. Saying my overclocked yz processor can match a factory xy CPU can be said just to give someone an idea of what level of performance you can achieve with the cheaper overclocked CPU as a frame of reference. I remember once stating that a heavily overclocked 7970 could nip at the heels of a GTX780. A bunch of people starting dong the, "OMG, a GTX780 can overclock too, though!" replies. Well, no kidding it can! I was just trying to make a statement about what kind of performance you can get out of a 7970 with a very good overclock, that's all, nothing more.

People are being 'purpsefully obtuse'. I've seen the words "guaranteed overclock" used in the way atenra is using it since I joined the forums

EDIT: And if people are so concerned about data integrity, I hope those same people are using ECC ram

No kidding. It's obviously AtenRa's opinion, not an official AMD stance. And he's probably right for 99% of the FX8xxx CPU's out there, especially the 'E' CPU's or FX's that were made recently with a very mature process now. But a bunch of internet heroes are going to try and hang him over semantics. :\ If you don't overclock, or your data is that important, then an overclocked CPU isn't for you and you know that.

 

[positivedoppler]

Saying that the FX is guarantee to overclock thus a good buy is about the same as people pimping those gimp little Pentiums Gs because they overclock. You buy a proc for what it does and anything on top is gravy.

 

[Markfw]

Nothing wrong with comparing overclocked to stock. I don't know why people get so worked up over that. Saying my overclocked yz processor can match a factory xy CPU can be said just to give someone an idea of what level of performance you can achieve with the cheaper overclocked CPU as a frame of reference. I remember once stating that a heavily overclocked 7970 could nip at the heels of a GTX780. A bunch of people starting dong the, "OMG, a GTX780 can overclock too, though!" replies. Well, no kidding it can! I was just trying to make a statement about what kind of performance you can get out of a 7970 with a very good overclock, that's all, nothing more.




No kidding. It's obviously AtenRa's opinion, not an official AMD stance. And he's probably right for 99% of the FX8xxx CPU's out there, especially the 'E' CPU's or FX's that were made recently with a very mature process now. But a bunch of internet heroes are going to try and hang him over semantics. :\ If you don't overclock, or your data is that important, then an overclocked CPU isn't for you and you know that.

So without even trying to overclock both, you think that is fair ? Sorry, that's just wrong.

Either overclock both, or take 2 , one from each company at the same price and overclock, but not OC'ed to stock.

 

[AtenRa]

So without even trying to overclock both, you think that is fair ? Sorry, that's just wrong.

Well, the problem is that Core i5 4440 cannot OCed and it has even lower performance than the Core i5 4670K at default that is used in the benchmarks.

Also, that is exactly what people doing with Intel Pentium G3258. They compare it OVERCLOCKED to default Core i3/5 or AMD CPUs. Nothing wrong with that, it only shows the performance of an overclocked Pentium compared to other CPUs.

When we compare a cheap Overclocked CPU/GPU etc to a more expensive at default, it is only to show the performance you gain going cheap but risk the Overclock.
It was the same thing Anandtech was doing with Intel Celeron A300 @ 450MHz comparing it to Pentium at default. Everyone knew the Pentium could be overclocked to, but that was not the point. The point was that you could get the same performance of a $500+ CPU (at default) by overclocking the $200 Celeron A300.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/174/4

 

[Abwx]

Knowledge has nothing to do with it. I want you to link to the garantee.

Is 3.60 safe or is it to much or is it capable of more fot the i5 4570

4.0 is dead simple.

Really? Who isn't getting about 4.5Ghz on DC?

Perhaps you could provide us with your post where you pretend that a G3258 has no trouble reaching 4.7-4.8.??

So either you are an Intel rep or you are just trolling..

Notice that Atenra talked of 4.4 out of FXs that have a 4.2 turbo, wich is more than reasonable..

 

[Abwx]

I agree that guarantee is being used improperly.

Abwx would be perfectly justified in saying that almost every 8320E overclocks to 4.4 ghz or that you are virtually guaranteed a 4.4 ghz overclock but that is not the same as saying that every 8320E will reach 4.4 ghz, especially when AMD specifically states that they make no guarantees in overclocking.

However, this is all a question of schematics. If you buy a 8320E you can reasonably expect with a high degree of certainty that it will overclock to 4.4 ghz.

The turbo at stock is 4.2, and do you know what is the difference between the FX E and the regular FX.?

The difference is the behaviour at high frequencies, precisely, at low frequencies the FX8350 has about the same TDPs but above 4.0 the E show much better overclocking at significantly lower TDPs, the caracteristics are exactly the sames as the Richland APUs and they overclock at the same levels, at least 300-400MHz higher than the regular FXs and Trinitys, the early FX8350 was close to 200W at 4.5 while an FX E is at 160W at the same frequency, not that i recommend such extreme overclockings but it s a thoses limits that we can better see the difference between such steppings.

Edit : The power figure above are with Prime 95, for regular renderings and other X264 encodings theses numbers are to be factored by 0.8-0.83.

 

[AtenRa]

Perhaps you could provide us with your post where you pretend that a G3258 has no trouble reaching 4.7-4.8.??

So either you are an Intel rep or you are just trolling..

Notice that Atenra talked of 4.4 out of FXs that have a 4.2 turbo, wich is more than reasonable..

Apparently nobody asked an official Intel rep talking about easy 4.5GHz DC overclock for Guarantees

 

[SlowSpyder]

So without even trying to overclock both, you think that is fair ? Sorry, that's just wrong.

Either overclock both, or take 2 , one from each company at the same price and overclock, but not OC'ed to stock.

Yes, it's fair. It isn't to say that the cheaper overclocked CPU is the better buy or anything. Just a frame of reference to give an idea of what performance you can get out of one product if you overclock. I don't see anything wrong with that.

If I say an overclocked FX8320 @ 4GHz can match factory clocked FX8350 performance, all I'm saying is that the lower priced overclocked CPU can give you that level of performance. I'm not saying that the other can't be overclocked too. Just a frame of reference for the level of performance that can be achieved by overclocking the lower priced and slower part.


And keep in mind there are some parts that can't really be overclocked. So saying an overclocked FX can match an i3 isn't really an unfair comparison.

 

[Abwx]

So without even trying to overclock both, you think that is fair ? Sorry, that's just wrong.

Either overclock both, or take 2 , one from each company at the same price and overclock, but not OC'ed to stock.

The FX is unlocked, just set the multiplicator and it s done, you wont brutalise the other bus and MC and whatever part that is frequency linked.

 

[DrMrLordX]

Am I the only one wondering what board the OP got to go with his new i5? You know, instead of arguing over guaranteed overclocks . . .