Haswell NUCs? When?

[AtenRa]

I have tried HDMI with every GPU i've ever owned, that includes 7970s, GTX 680, GTX 780, GTX 580, not a single one supports over 1080p through HDMI. I have to use DVI-D or displayport.

AMD HD7xxx supports HDMI 1.4A


http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7970/Pages/radeon-7970.aspx#3

Cutting-edge integrated display support

• DisplayPort 1.2
  • Max resolution: 4096x2160 @ 60 Hz per display
  • Multi-Stream
  • 21.6 Gbps bandwidth (HBR2)
  • High bit-rate audio
  • Quad HD/4K/UHDTV display support
  • 1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D (Frame Sequential Format)
• HDMI® (With 4K, 3D, x.v.Color™ and Deep Color)
  • Max resolution: 4096x2160 @ 30 Hz
  • 1080p30 Stereoscopic 3D (Packed Frame Format)
  • Quad HD/4K/UHDTV video display support
• HDMI® (With 4K, 3D, Deep Color and x.v.Color™)
  • Max resolution: 4096x2160
  • 1080p60 Stereoscopic 3D
  • Quad HD/4k video support
• Dual-link DVI with HDCP
  • Max resolution: 2560x1600
• VGA
  • Max resolution: 2048x1536

 

[seitur]

DP is superior, whole problem it is not widespread yet. There are still many new FullHD mainstream cheap monitors that don't even have DP port :/

 

[blackened23]

AMD HD7xxx supports HDMI 1.4A


http://www.amd.com/us/products/desktop/graphics/7000/7970/Pages/radeon-7970.aspx#3

Before you even waste your time posting this stuff, honestly, unless you try it it's not worth posting. I have owned a 7970 (have sold it since). HDMI out on every modern GPU only supports 1080p, period, which is (as I posted earlier) why HDMI is garbage for anything but HDTV usage. If you want to use a 1440/1600p (which apparently you do NOT) you do not use HDMI. It won't work, it's just that simple.

That being said, what you posted refers to 4k resolution via MST which is how AMD and nvidia cards are doing things. How it works is, you use 2x HDMI cables to get 4k resolution with 30hz output. This is all done via MST, however, which is a form of surround - it is not treated as a single screen resolution since it is using MST. You can view the Seiki 4k panel review at PCPer if you want details on this - HDMI only works @ 4k resolution when the card is in surround mode (MST). This is not a single screen resolution, it is treated as surround.

Anyway, there are others in this thread who have attempted the same - Higher than 1080p won't work. For me, i'm using a 1600p screen and *have tried* to get it to work at native resolution via HDMI on various GPUs. It doesn't work, it always falls back to 1080p. Additionally, every single 2012 ultrabook with mini HDMI out is limited to 1080p graphical output to an external monitor. I have (again) tried this numerous times on various monitors with no luck - as with GPUs, you're stuck at 1080p due to HDMI. This is a large part of the reason why I use a macbook as a portable, since macbooks use mini displayport for external monitors.

 

[AtenRa]

Before you even waste your time posting this stuff, honestly, unless you try it it's not worth posting. I have owned a 7970 (have sold it since). HDMI out on every modern GPU only supports 1080p, period, which is (as I posted earlier) why HDMI is garbage for anything but HDTV usage. If you want to use a 1440/1600p (which apparently you do NOT) you do not use HDMI. It won't work, it's just that simple.

That being said, what you posted refers to 4k resolution via MST which is how AMD and nvidia cards are doing things. How it works is, you use 2x HDMI cables to get 4k resolution with 30hz output. This is all done via MST, however, which is a form of surround - it is not treated as a single screen resolution since it is using MST. You can view the Seiki 4k panel review at PCPer if you want details on this - HDMI only works @ 4k resolution when the card is in surround mode (MST). This is not a single screen resolution, it is treated as surround.

Anyway, there are others in this thread who have attempted the same. HDMI is garbage for PC monitor usage. Higher than 1080p won't work, but I don't expect you to understand that since you're presumably using a 1080p screen. For me, i'm using a 1600p screen and *have tried* to get it to work at native resolution via HDMI on various GPUs. It doesn't work, it always falls back to 1080p. Additionally, every single 2012 ultrabook with mini HDMI out is limited to 1080p graphical output to an external monitor. I have (again) tried this numerous times on various monitors with no luck - as with GPUs, you're stuck at 1080p due to HDMI. This is a large part of the reason why I use a macbook as a portable, since macbooks use mini displayport for external monitors.

Furthermore, with regard to Samsung and Dell IPS panels - On all of their new screens they explicitly state that higher than 1080p will not work with HDMI out, they are now putting inserts with their manuals to state that using native resolution requires DVI-D or DP. HDMI is just a sad state of affairs, but again - if you had ever attempted high resolution with HDMI, you would know this.

The specifications of HDMI 1.4a clearly states it supports 2560x1600 at 60Hz and 4K at 24Hz, now if the Monitor cannot work at that resolution with an HDMI connection is a different thing.
But, saying that HDMI cannot support above 1080p is wrong.

ps: you are too aggressive for a conversation about cables, next time keep out the personal attacks.


Edit:

HDMI out on every modern GPU only supports 1080p, period,

CLUB 3D HD7970

http://www.club-3d.com/index.php/products/reader.en/product/radeon-hd-7970.html

Output Configuration

DVI: 1x Dual Link DVI-I
VGA: via Dongle
HDMI: 1x version 1.4a
Mini DisplayPort: 2x version 1.2
HDCP ready: YES
RAMDAC: 400MHz
Maximum Resolution analog: 2048x1536 (via Dual-Link DVI to VGA adapter)
Maximum Resolution Single-Link DVI: 1920x1200
Maximum Resolution Dual-Link DVI: 2560x1600
Maximum Resolution HDMI 1.4a: 4096x3112
Maximum Resolution Mini DP 1.2: 4096x2160

 

[blackened23]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5261/amd-radeon-hd-7970-review/8

Currently AMD supports a subset of the complete HDMI 1.4a specification; they can drive S3D displays (the killer feature of 1.4a), but that’s the only thing out of 1.4a they support. HDMI also introduced support for 4K x 2K displays, but both displays and devices that can drive them have been rare. As displays start to become available so too does support for them with AMD’s products.

4k support is only usable with MST surround. It really is quite hilarious how AMD words their resolution support on the 7k GPUs. They mention the fact that 4k via HDMI works but fail to mention that it requires MST surround. And then they mention that it supports S3D at 1080p 60hz. This isn't an AMD specific issue, however - the same is applicable to nvidia GPUs. You cannot use HDMI for WQHD resolutions.

 

[AtenRa]

.......

Again,

It is a different thing to say that HDMI does not support above 1080p and a different thing that you cannot connect 1600p monitor to a GPU via HDMI.

Hope you understand that.

 

[blackened23]

Again,

It is a different thing to say that HDMI does not support above 1080p and a different thing that you cannot connect 1600p monitor to a GPU via HDMI.

Hope you understand that.

Let me try to simplify this for you:

Higher than 1080p support via HDMI requires MST surround for up to 4k resolution. MST, obviously, is a form of surround - but MST is not usable with 1440p or 1600p. Read the PCPer review of the Seiki 4k panel if you would like an explanation of how MST works.

-AMD only supports a small subset of the HDMI 1.4a specification (the same is also true of NV). If not using MST, you're limited to S3D at 1080p / 60hz.

It really is that simple. AMD only supports a subset of HDMI 1.4 and does not support WQHD via HDMI (again, this isn't AMD specific, this is also true of nvidia), thus higher than 1080p will not work with WQHD monitors. I know this all seems off-topic, but this ties in with the NUC: this is why intel made the right call when adding mini displayport to the Haswell NUC. Last year's IVB NUC did not support higher than 1080p through HDMI.

 

[AtenRa]

You are obsessed with your 1600p monitor, good for you.

HDMI is the same as single link DVI. It doesn't support the same bandwidth as dual link.

I was replying to Terry's post about HDMI bandwidth, not about a GPU connection to 1600p Monitors. I gave the specs, HDMI 1.4a can support up to 4K at 24Hz.
But you are too stubborn and you continue with your 1600p monitor connectivity that has nothing to do with the actual specs of HDMI 1.4a.

 

[blackened23]

Stating that HDMI 1.4a supports 4k is a borderline deceptive statement (not on your part, mostly marketing related on the part of various vendors.)

Only HDMI 2.0 will truly support 4k resolution. In the meantime, again, HDMI is only usable at 4k via surround resolutions using MST. And of course HDMI 1.4a does not support any resolutions in between 4k and 1080p, and 4k has the pre-requisite of requiring surround.

Anyway, let's just leave it at that. Nothing worth arguing about - Getting 1600p to work via HDMI is something that i've tried extensively and has been a source of frustration (as you can tell by my tone) as most PC portables *only* have mini HDMI out. You can state its an obsession, but it's a frustration since PC vendors always go with the lowest common denominator without thought of functionality. I apologize if this seemed directed at you, but as I mentioned getting HDMI to work with high resolution WQHD panels has been a complete PITA and a major source of frustration; maybe that shows in my tone. I didn't intend it as any form of attack. Anyway, this is why i've since gone to a macbook (which uses mini DP, as does the Haswell NUC). The fact that Intel added mini DP/mHDMI (instead of 2X HDMI) on the NUC was the right call. That's really all there is to it.

 

[AtenRa]

Well, since 99% of users have 1080p or lower Monitors/TVs HDMI would do the job. Now everyone with out a DP port on their devices will need to buy an extra connector or DP to HDMI cable.

 

[TerryMathews]

You are obsessed with your 1600p monitor, good for you.



I was replying to Terry's post about HDMI bandwidth, not about a GPU connection to 1600p Monitors. I gave the specs, HDMI 1.4a can support up to 4K at 24Hz.
But you are too stubborn and you continue with your 1600p monitor connectivity that has nothing to do with the actual specs of HDMI 1.4a.

I hadn't seen the specs on 1.4a. Glad to see they finally upped the bandwidth. Doesn't match DL-DVI yet, but maybe by 2.0 it will.

Still doesn't negate the original point that DVI is a better connection method than HDMI. Stepping off HDTV resolutions can cause your success to vary greatly.

 

[Essence_of_War]

This conversation felt like it happened in bizarro land.

AtenRa, the question was never "What is the HDMI 1.4 specification?"

The question was more like: "Do NV/AMD GPUs implement the full specification, do monitors support the specification, and are cables backwards compatible?"

To which the answers appear to be: "No", "Who knows, maybe? Sometimes?", and "lol obvs no".

This is the source of the frustration with HDMI. If any part of the triad of monitor, gpu, cable don't support the highest specification, everything reverts to a max of 1920x1080, and it doesn't seem like either gpu manufacturers or monitor manufacturers are particularly transparent about that. And as blackened has pointed out, even when the gpu manufacturers are implementing part of the specification, they're doing it in a sort of weird way.

 

[Mushkins]

Wow, this topic went way off the rails here.

Back to HASWELL NUCs, they have miniDP and mini-HDMI. It's kind of a PITA because there's plenty of room on the device for a full size HDMI/DP and most displays you'd be hooking a NUC up to either use full size HDMI or full size DP.

Fighting over HDMI standards is totally pointless because the thing *still has a miniDP port*. Can we please get back on topic?

 

[blackened23]

Wow, this topic went way off the rails here.

Back to HASWELL NUCs, they have miniDP and mini-HDMI. It's kind of a PITA because there's plenty of room on the device for a full size HDMI/DP and most displays you'd be hooking a NUC up to either use full size HDMI or full size DP.

Fighting over HDMI standards is totally pointless because the thing *still has a miniDP port*. Can we please get back on topic?

I don't really think it was off topic. The conversation was related to why 2X HDMI (as was used on the IVB NUC) would have been a worse solution than mini DP/ miniHDMI (used on the Haswell NUC).

I think it's pretty relevant. For those using WQHD panels, and I know there's quite a few of us out there - the Haswell NUC is usable product. The IVB NUC was not, unless one is content with using 1080p on their WQHD IPS panel. I've stated this before, but intel adding mini DP to the new Haswell NUC was really the right call. Let me also add that the beauty of the NUC is that it is extremely portable - you can use it anywhere. If you want to drop it in your living room for HDTV use, you can do that - and obviously you can also use it as a "real" PC with your PC monitor. This is partially why output connectivity is fairly important.

Anyone know when these are being released? Looks like a very viable alternative to the Mac Mini.

 

[Essence_of_War]

Eh, I don't consider MDP/miniHDMI to be a PITA. miniHDMI -> full HDMI and MDP->DP cables are basically the same price as HDMI/DP cables.

 

[AtenRa]

1440p/1600p via HDMI on Laptops
http://www.notebookcheck.net/2560x1440-or-2560x1600-via-HDMI.92840.0.html

This my help some of you. It may also work in Desktops.

 

[TerryMathews]

Eh, I don't consider MDP/miniHDMI to be a PITA. miniHDMI -> full HDMI and MDP->DP cables are basically the same price as HDMI/DP cables.

This. I paid $7/pc ea shipped for a pair of 6ft mDP/DP cables. Work like a charm.

 

[Phynaz]

Here's a chassis that takes NUC boards.

http://techreport.com/news/25283/fanless-chassis-primed-for-intel-nuc-motherboard

 

[crashtech]

Are bare NUC boards easily obtainable? Why doesn't Newegg sell them?

I've been eyeing the "Euler," also made by Akasa, but for thin mini-ITX. I have to see if other thin boards will fit in it aside from the two Intel boards mentioned in the specs.

 

[blckgrffn]

The only frustration I've had with dp is that getting sound to work via dp to hdmi cables is not always a slam dunk.

As it has been well put in this thread, the mess on the HDMI side can be a huge frustration in weird interoperability issues. Also been there and done that.

2x mini-dp would have been preferable if they aren't doing full size HDMI. You'll be ordering a new cable anyway.

My frustration? Buying DP cables. My monitor supports the newest DP spec and so could daisy chain (DP in, DP out). My cards have the nice DP ports. Finding a cable? Seemingly impossible (want it to be black!).

 

[seitur]

It does sell them, lathrough only in 10-packs and I see only one model.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16813121742

One of my local PC shops (think Microcenter but much smaller company - and Europe not US) does sell two models and you can buy just one motherboard&cpu combo if you want. One is same as newegg and second is with Celeron 847.

When you look at those there is certainly big premium price tag attached to NUC format. You can get similar performance for 2x less if you get mATX format and about 30-50% less if you go for ITX.

 

[finbarqs]

I'm waiting on the Haswell NUC too... Probably either an i5 or i7 outfit, because I'll use it SOLEY to transcode my Synology DS213 videos for my Plex server (Don't know why Synology even offered a Plex in the "apps" section). Goal: Low powered transcoder that can do 3-4 streams @ 1080p 5.1 DTS + Subs at once!

 

[2is]

DP>HDMI... Doesn't matter how desperately a particular member tries defend HDMI.

 

[aigomorla]

DP>HDMI... Doesn't matter how desperately a particular member tries defend HDMI.

but but but.. my HDMI plug is bigger!!
isnt bigger better? :biggrin:
^ sarcasm....

DP>HDMI by far... u cant daisy chain HDMI that u can on a DP.

 

[zarellaro]

me too waiting I3 Haswell in NUC.
But I believe to prefer the Zbox Nano, but having the Zbox 1 Ram slot only, you will lose the benefits of dual channel. Right?

someone wants suggest to me? please