Hate California Traffic? Drive in Car Pool lane alone (legally)

[bsobel]

Ok, debated posting this, but I think it's a hot deal. Since a new law last year, California allows you to drive in the HOV (carpool) lanes alone if you have an alternative fuel vehicle (natual gas or electric, hybrids don't qualify). Very few people know about this new law (about the only other people I ever see taking advantage of it are cab fleets so their drivers can return from a dropoff quickly).

The Natural Gas Vehicle form at www.ngv.org has a list of used qualifiying cars for sale at Cars for sale The site also has a list of refueling stations at Refuelling stations

I've had one of these vehicles since July to commute in, I regurally enjoy passing miles of stopped traffic while the HOV lane keeps moving The fact it has almost 0 emessions is another bonus. The topper is that fuel costs are about 33% less than unleaded fuel costs for the equivalent amount of fuel.

Bill

 

[Scarpozzi]

I wasn't aware that they had cars that ran on natural gas... I'm more interested in what kind of milage they get and if they're cost effective to own...

 

[Uclagamer_99]

hmm this would be great if i had one of those vehicles
maybe i could use this as an excuse if i ever get pulled over by the cops for using the carpool lane when im alone

 

[Drakkon]

they do this in arizona too....and a little while back they had a deal where u could get some sort or rebate if u bought a car and had it converted to run on natural gas as well as regular gas...
needless to say the state lost a TON of money and a lot of people got some really nice new vehicals for surprizingly cheap.
But anyways this is a hot deal...i hate driving through cali and getting stuck behind some big ass truck going through LA ...a couple baloons with smiley faces and hooded jackets works just as well though

 

[DanJ]

There's such a thing as car pool lanes?

Woah..Michigan is behind the times

 

[iamme]

<< There's such a thing as car pool lanes?

Woah..Michigan is behind the times >>



Yeah we are

 

[bsobel]

> I wasn't aware that they had cars that ran on natural gas... I'm more interested in what kind of milage they get and if they're cost effective to own...

I have a '99 Ford Crown Victoria (ok, don't laugh, it's just to commute in, I have other real cars for the weekend ). The mileage in the NG vehicles from the factory is usually the same as the gasolene versions (natural gas is equivalent to 130 octane). Mine gets 20mpg (all fuel rates are in GGEs 'gasolene gallon equvelants' so you can do apple to apple comparisions). Mileage is usually about 10-15% less if you have the car converted from gas to ng (companies do this, I heard it runs about 6k or so).

The downside to the NGV's is the fuel capacity and range. My Crown Vic holds the 9.3 gallons and gets about 20mpg, so my range is about 180miles. My commute is 66 miles round trip so I wind up fueling every other day. In my case the fueling location is one block from my office and nobody is ever there (it's like having your own personal gas station). You can get extended range tanks (you trade trunk space for more fuel space) and get upto 16 gallons on board. The Camry listed on that site gets about 260-280 per tankfull due to it's higher mileage. But even with those ranges, I'll never drive it cross country (or even to northern California). As many urban areas have a well built fuel infastructure the rural areas don't and if you don't have enough fuel to make it to the next station you are a bit SOL.

I company called FuelMaker also makes home fueling equipment so you can fuel the vehicle overnight at your house (you get special rates from the Gas Company for the fuel used to refuel the car). The equipment is still about 5k but is expected to drop to about 1-2k in 2 years as they are doing a partnership with Honda to make lower cost home refuelling available (Honda is one company where you can go to most any dealer and get a NG Civic ordered for you).

As for cost effectiveness, I think they are. You generally pay more upfront for a new NGV. But used they are pretty close the gasolene versions. You also can get upto a 2k income deduction on the vehicle from your federal taxes (and some cities, like SanDiego have their own programs which may offset some of the cost!). Also, maintence is cheaper. NG runs MUCH MUCH cleaner than gasolene, oil changes are suggested every 25-30k miles (instead of the 3k for a gasolene engine). Spark plugs last forever, etc.

Still need the normal major services, however, such as timing belt (I have to look, I assume thats at about 60k, I only have 8k on my so far so I have time). I did do one oil change as I bought the car used from a Ford dealer (it was a Ford demo vehicle) and wanted to get any inital metal filings and new engine 'junk' out of it. Probably won't change it again until 33k miles. Boy did that annoy the guy at Firestone when he told me to come back in 3k miles

Bill

 

[bsobel]

> maybe i could use this as an excuse if i ever get pulled over by the cops for using the carpool lane when im alone

I should add as part of the law the car needs to be stickered. I have the HOV Exempt stickers on the cards left and right quarter panels and the back bumper. Also the registration includes a card which matches the serial number of the stickers. Trust me, I went thru the whole hmmmmm if I put the stickers onto my Corvette would they still stop me?

Bill

 

[DVDBob]

They'd still stop you, but with an AT scanner and printer deal, you could probably whip together a nice looking certificate that shows your vette has been converted and the bacon probably wouldn't know the difference.

 

[worms]

The AZ fiasco Drakkon mentioned also included free installation of a filling station at your home! It was a pretty sweet deal for people looking to buy a F150, Civic HF, etc. at the time. You get the CNG version of the car for several thousand dollars less than the gasoline version (after $5000 MIR), then you get a free gas pump (after $3000 MIR). Then you get a lifetime exemption from the $300-$400 annual registration fee. After all that, the carpool lane deal (of which there are only about 3 in AZ) was just a smidge of icing. Unfortunately, AZ ended up mailing $8000 checks to about a million more people than they had expected:Q It put such a strain on the economy that we were only able to build just a few mega sports arenas that year (1999?). IIRC, the lady blamed for the fiasco was soon thereafter shot in the ass by a disgruntled constituent.

 

[XeonTux]

I had never seen these "car pool" lanes until I went to AZ a couple years ago... didn't really know what the deal with them was. Since traffic in other lanes was terribly slow (and carpoolk lane was doing >100) I decided to take advantage of them anyway, even though I was the only person in the car at the time. But my whole porpose of going to AZ was to pickup this girl, and on the way back to Chicago we were picking up a friend in TX. Now if that's not carpooling I don't know what is! (Luckily I never had to give this explanation to a copper)

Hmm, if I lived in CA I might have to consider converting to Natural Gas or Propane if it meant driving faster. I wonder how performance of my 350ci LT1 would be affected...

 

[Sesopedalian]

They should be all "shot in the ass" for even thinking of carpool lanes. Is there anywhere in the USA where they work?
Seems to me the polution is increased more by cars slowly crawling along when the carpool lanes could be used to
speed things up. They are a dismal failure.

 

[GtPrOjEcTX]

how much is natural gas per gallon??

 

[yodayoda]

well, as the laws reads, cars have to have "ultra-low" emissions. so far, only electric, natural gas, propane comply with this, but i think the honda insight with its electric/gas hybrid engine might work. getting 70+ mpg, it might get certification for the ultra-low emission sticker and thus drive carpool.

btw, there is another way to drive carpool--ride a motorcycle like me! =) motorcycles are permitted in all diamond lanes, including carpool onramps, carpool lanes, 3+ lanes, and bus lanes.

Sesopedalian, they do work if redneck right-wing a-holes stop driving around their F350s to work and buddy up with a coworker. save gas, time, money, and the environment, but only if you change.

 

[bsobel]

> how much is natural gas per gallon??

Currently in L.A. about 99c (1.11 in Santa Monica as those (insert word here) charge a 10% fuel tax. It's actually about the same now as regular (it's normal about 33% less, when regular was going for 1.75 out here NG was still going for about 1.05). The winter season is more expensive than the summer so prices should fall back in line once the summer season rolls back around.

Bill

 

[bsobel]

> but i think the honda insight with its electric/gas hybrid engine might work. getting 70+ mpg, it might get certification for the ultra-low emission sticker and thus drive carpool.

Actually, I *thought* the California law specifically prohibits hybrids but looking I see that it doesn't it's just they don't yet qualify "U.S. EPA?s ILEV standard effectively eliminates any gasoline vehicle from eligibility under AB71" The full faq is at CARB Prius/Insight info. I see that Arizona is trying to change that for the hyrbids there Arizona proposed law change

> btw, there is another way to drive carpool--ride a motorcycle like me! =) motorcycles are permitted in all diamond lanes, including carpool onramps, carpool lanes, 3+ lanes, and bus lanes.

Yea, I have an F4i and originally bought it for just this reason. I would up finding that I much prefer to drive the empty roads/canyons by where I live than thru the west side of L.A. on a bike, can't say that my wife is too upset that I'm not commuting on it. And I do have more fun, when I have the time, hitting the canyons anyhow.

Bill

 

[ianbergman]

<< They should be all "shot in the ass" for even thinking of carpool lanes. Is there anywhere in the USA where they work? Seems to me the polution is increased more by cars slowly crawling along when the carpool lanes could be used to speed things up. They are a dismal failure. >>



I've seen them work... but the road still has to be big enough. If there's too many carpools in the lane, they end up just as crowded as the regular lanes.

God Bless Seattle and our lack of roads.

sorry, that was off-topic.

 

[wiru]

this is a hot deal. it would work for me before and i would seriously consider buying on of those car. except for now, my work is 2min away.......thanks for the post tho. its always good to know.

 

[TheDon]

Something else to consider. With proper maintenance, a NG powered car's engine will last almost forever because NG doesn't foul the innards the way gasoline does. Of course in Michigan, your car dies of cancer before the engine quits anyway (Never mind Californian's, people who live here know what I mean).

 

[Luden]

Or just use your blow-up doll.

 

[sygyzy]

I don't really see this as a hot deal. I mean I have read about the beneifts of a NGV and this is one of the few. I would be thoroughly amazed if someone spent that much money on a NGV (versus a fossil fuel one with the same performance and significant cost savings) and not know about this.

Did you know if you have a motorcycle you can also ride alone (legally) in the car pool lane? Everyone go get a hog now!

 

[docinthebox]

Honda Accord EX has an "Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (ULEV)" option with no extra charge, and a "Super Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV)" which costs $85 extra. Does any of these options qualify?

(To see these options, go to carsdirect, choose "Honda" "Accord", and 94043 for zip code. Then choose "2002 Honda Accord 4dr Sedan 2.3 EX".)

 

[bsobel]

> I would be thoroughly amazed if someone spent that much money on a NGV (versus a fossil fuel one with the same performance and significant cost savings) and not know about this.

I agree, the reason I posted was for people who didn't even know about the NGV option. The HOV lane access is what pushed me over the fence to buying one. Sorry if you don't think it's a hot deal, I did question if it belonged here or not (figured if the company selling the tanks in Europe was a hot deal, this might qualify). I guess you need to really really really hate LA traffic as much as I to fully apreciate the deal here

Bill

 

[mrchan]

i doubt the ULEV Accords apply, but if they do, i'd be quite happy. anyone know for certain either way?

<--- ULEV Accord Owner

 

[sygyzy]

No need to apologize. I am sorry if it came off the wrong way. I was just saying that IMO there are only a few positives (regardless of their magnitude) to buying a NGV and the car pool lane is definitely one of them. What's funny is KCAL did a news story about this old lady who bought a NGV and they followed her on the freeway and the commentary went something like "Yes ladies and gentleman, Beatrice just changed into the car pool lane and she is ALONE! Yes! You saw it with your very own eyes"

You're wondering how I know about KCAL huh? Los Angeles resident, born and raised. 20 years so I know how bad LA traffic can be my friend