Hate Mask and Vaccine Mandates? Just Wait For The Electric Cars

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
If you can charge regularly at home or at work I think an EV can definitely work today. With the resale prices even if you lose your job with access to charging it’s easy to sell the EV.

We stayed in an Airbnb in CA this summer. It was behind the owners house and they had two BMW i3’s. They had to move cars around and stretch the charger over their other car in the driveway but it seemed to work for them with multiple cars.

For me I’ve been parking my EV in the driveway recently since that side of the garage has some wood working projects I have to finish. The good news is I mounted the charger by the door so I can just back the car up the driveway and run the cable under the garage door.

I got a EVSE with a 25ft cord at our previous house which made charging easy without having to shift any vehicles around. I'm actually back in an i3s BEV now with the largest battery. BMW gave me a trade in value for my 330e equal to what I paid for it a year and a half ago.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,792
146
I got a EVSE with a 25ft cord at our previous house which made charging easy without having to shift any vehicles around. I'm actually back in an i3s BEV now with the largest battery. BMW gave me a trade in value for my 330e equal to what I paid for it a year and a half ago.
The car market is so screwed up right now.
Do you like the i3?

Wife saw a post about the first F150 lightning in the area. It went for over $100K
 
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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
The car market is so screwed up right now.
Do you like the i3?

Wife saw a post about the first F150 lightning in the area. It went for over $100K

Yeah the market is weird. The dealer I went to seems to get a lot of i3's returned off lease, they had at least 10 that I saw. They were priced to move off the lot but gave me a more than fair deal on my trade.

I like it a lot and it is the second one I've had. Glad I went with the S model without the range extender. It handles way better on the highway without the extra weight and with the lower center of gravity. Its a perfect city car and we take to to neighborhoods that we know have tight parking instead of my husband's Model 3.
 
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UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,843
9,092
136
As an update to electric cars and the partisan narrative surrounding them.....
America's electric grid and energy generation may need a serious upgrade if we are to support this.
And of course, Republicans will oppose such things.

Imagine the message the state of California just sent to the EV industry.
California asks residents not to charge electric vehicles, days after announcing gas car ban
Fox is salivating at the opportunity.

I wouldn’t be surprised if California also passed a law stating all Level 2/3 chargers must be grid-managed at some point. Then they could tap into all those plugged-in cars as a giant battery during peak power demand. Even if they limit grid power leeching to 30% of your car’s range, it could make a huge difference.
 
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Captante

Lifer
Oct 20, 2003
30,306
10,805
136
EV enthusiast or not the world is NOT yet fully ready for EV's.

As of this moment if you can't charge at work or at home on a regular basis an EV will be at best a PITA to daily-drive and sooner or later you will get stuck with insufficient charge for your trip with no convenient fix in sight.

Had we been fully dedicated to preparing for the change-over to all-EV in say 2012 we most likely still wouldn't be there yet but we would be a lot closer.

Connecticut is on the "EV-ready" side of things and even here relying entirely on remote-charging to get around is a fools errand.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,792
146
EV enthusiast or not the world is NOT yet fully ready for EV's.

As of this moment if you can't charge at work or at home on a regular basis an EV will be at best a PITA to daily-drive and sooner or later you will get stuck with insufficient charge for your trip with no convenient fix in sight.

Had we been fully dedicated to preparing for the change-over to all-EV in say 2012 we most likely still wouldn't be there yet but we would be a lot closer.

Connecticut is on the "EV-ready" side of things and even here relying entirely on remote-charging to get around is a fools errand.

Yup If you aren't one of the 63% who have a car port or garage or can't charge at work then I'd recommend waiting to buy an EV until level 2 charging is more available for you.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,222
5,084
146
I'll be putting in as many solar panels as the PUD will allow for net metering. It was 12 KW last I checked. I'll get a 30% tax credit on that. I want an EV but don't really want a new one as a retiree. I'd be happy with a ~80 mile range used Leaf, but here is no tax incentive for that.
My fam is about 60 miles from the new digs, and I really don't need more than that. It would be nice to round trip it with no charging, but I am hoping I can get a little juice when I am hanging out.
 
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brycejones

Lifer
Oct 18, 2005
26,719
25,062
136
I'll be putting in as many solar panels as the PUD will allow for net metering. It was 12 KW last I checked. I'll get a 30% tax credit on that. I want an EV but don't really want a new one as a retiree. I'd be happy with a ~80 mile range used Leaf, but here is no tax incentive for that.
Biggest issue with the Leaf is Nissan's lack of cooling for the battery pack. Really disappointing given how perfect it is for a commuter or errand running car.
 
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skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,222
5,084
146
I know a guy with an early Leaf he put a trailer hitch on it and does everything with it, lumber runs, landscaping, drags logs LOL! I thing it was a rebuilt title so it was cheap.
 

Leeea

Diamond Member
Apr 3, 2020
3,709
5,443
136
And I seriously doubt that enough Americas will embrace that change going from gas to battery.
You can add me to that list.

Closest I am going to get is my plug in hybrid.

---------------------------

Electric cars are great if you can plug them in at home or work or something. In my case I get to plug in at work.

If you cannot, electric cars suffer. Sure their are super charger networks and all that. But the cost per kilowatt hour for those external chargers is very high* compared to home charging. The wear and tear on the battery with fast charging is also much higher.

*it is cheaper for me to put gas in my car then it is to charge it at an Electrify America station.
 
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skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,222
5,084
146
We are a 3 vehicle family and I can sure see one EV in the future. The ICE truck is not replaceable by EV due to energy density requirements. When I get done towing for vacations then it too can go.
 

ImpulsE69

Lifer
Jan 8, 2010
14,946
1,077
126
I don't have an issue going to electric, if it can handle brutal winters, and there is infrastructure for it, and of course cheaper. My biggest gripe will be the recharging times when traveling long distances.

What I'm more annoyed by is the price of vehicles in general. I do not think they will ever actually come back to where they were pre pandemic and I for the prices, I can just keep fixing what I have and still be ahead for years to come.
 
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sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,493
3,159
136
I forgot I started this thread.
I forgot that of late my Q family have been fully against THE CONCEPT of electric cars, and I suppose that is because of their Messiah Donald Trump's support of fossil fuels. Dirty deadly fossil fuels.

However...
The problem technology has today, THE BIG PROBLEM is the battery.
We need an all out war like effort to improve and invent new technology for the battery. And not only with batteries powering the EV but all batteries that power everything i.e. smart phones, smart watches, anything and everything that takes a battery we need better batteries.

America created a goal to land a man on the moon, and we did it. Now, America needs to create a goal to make an entirely new battery that lasts 100 times what batteries last today.
Imagine a smart watch battery lasting 6 months, or lasting an entire year? Imagine a cell phone that lasts 6 months on a single charge.
And, imagine an electric car able to drive 3000 miles on a single charge, and it taking one hour to gain a full charge. Or how about 30 minutes to full charge capacity?

Yes, lets put a hold on new technology for phones and watches and EV cars until we can invent a battery that can live up to the technology built into phones and watches and EV cars. If we can land a man on the moon we can certainly invent a battery that last months instead of hours.

PS.
The new iWatch 8 came out or is coming out and the technology features are amazing. However, the battery life sucks. The more technology put into these smart devices the worse the battery life.
And then.... to obtain decent battery life in the watch or phone they suggest that you "disable" most of those new technology features. WHAT??? DISABLE??? Why the new technology if you only end up disabling to obtain a decent battery life?
Makes absolutely NO sense....
 

pmv

Lifer
May 30, 2008
13,298
8,213
136
CFL's suck balls compared to incandescents. (LED's however are fine)

Note that I'm VERY "flicker-sensitive".... for example anything lower than a 90hz vertical refresh-rate on a CRT gives me a headache and so does any extended reading under a CFL. (or the not compact long-tube kind!)


Yeah, I switched to CFLs quite early on, and honestly am not at all sure it was worth it. They were pretty expensive per bulb back then, not helped by the fact my place has umpteen different types of light-fixture, requiring hunting for different types of bulb (fitting-size, bayonet vs screw-fit, bulb-size) when only the most basic type could be found cheaply.

Plus some of them got broken, which is an expensive accident when each bulb costs so much (not to mention the anxiety about the mercury vapor!). Plus many didn't last anywhere near the claimed lifespan before going pop. Nor were they as bright as they claimed to be. I regret bothering with them, really.

Switching to LEDs has been a far more satisfactory experience.
 
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drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,422
205
116
I'll be putting in as many solar panels as the PUD will allow for net metering. It was 12 KW last I checked. I'll get a 30% tax credit on that. I want an EV but don't really want a new one as a retiree. I'd be happy with a ~80 mile range used Leaf, but here is no tax incentive for that.
My fam is about 60 miles from the new digs, and I really don't need more than that. It would be nice to round trip it with no charging, but I am hoping I can get a little juice when I am hanging out.

Talk to anyone in the area about their solar installs. Utilities are becoming more hostile to residential solar each day. Some are requiring sell all, buy all contracts. Meaning all solar you generate goes to the grid and is bought at wholesale rates as low as 0.01c/kwh and you then have to buy all your electricity at retail rates. Great deal huh? You may want to consider a ground mount off grid setup or a bandit install after your house is done. Off grid will require the high cost of a storage battery.

They just need to put a more patriotic spin on EVs. I can generate my own electricity to charge my Leaf. I can't make my own gas. (I did make biodiesel for a while, but that still required methanol) They need to come up with a marketing campaign like Use Freedom Photons to reduce our dependence on evil Russian oil!
 
Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
There will be a few that refuse to give up their brodozers, but not enough to matter. Electrics are good enough now for most people, improvements in battery's, charging, and infrastructure are still needed, but the tech is there.
The simple reality is operating cost for an electric is way lower than an ICE.
My only real gripe with electrics is the tendency to load them with gadgets. I don't need a Bluetooth washer fluid monitor, I don't need cabin mood lighting, or a howitzer sound system.
That will mostly fix itself once the premium buyers have all been sold, then the manufacturers will target the mid and low end with much more basic cars simply to distinguish the high end from the low end as in upper tier cars/trucks or whatever will have mood lighting and romantic incense dispersed thru the vents and the get you to f-ing work car will have none of that.
 
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Feb 4, 2009
34,703
15,951
136
Going to be interesting to see how the roads get funded once electric hits the tipping point. Gas tax would be unfair or simply too large. Maybe something built into the excise tax? Maybe something else that is a small weekly charge?

Side note a deplorable I know claimed a few weeks ago that electric car owners are paying thousands of dollars a month in electric “it’s more expensive than gas!”
When asked why the few guys we know with teslas are saying their electric bill has jumped he said “their too embarrassed to admit it”

ummm okay sounds legit, I’ll stay with gas.
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
10,658
5,228
136
No, it will be more like the switch from incandescent bulbs to CFLs. A few crazies but the country will move on just fine.

This is why mandates are a terrible idea.

Best way to make it partisan and yet another culture war issue. Lots of Ds will also hate their choices being taken away.

Let competition do its work
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,664
5,349
136
Going to be interesting to see how the roads get funded once electric hits the tipping point. Gas tax would be unfair or simply too large. Maybe something built into the excise tax? Maybe something else that is a small weekly charge?

Side note a deplorable I know claimed a few weeks ago that electric car owners are paying thousands of dollars a month in electric “it’s more expensive than gas!”
When asked why the few guys we know with teslas are saying their electric bill has jumped he said “their too embarrassed to admit it”

ummm okay sounds legit, I’ll stay with gas.
Here in CA it's not just road funding, it's rebuilding the power grid as well. We're already at capacity on hot days. My guess is charging an electric car will be banned in the afternoon and evening.
 

[DHT]Osiris

Lifer
Dec 15, 2015
14,667
12,783
146
Here in CA it's not just road funding, it's rebuilding the power grid as well. We're already at capacity on hot days. My guess is charging an electric car will be banned in the afternoon and evening.
Thinking about it the wrong way. Those millions of batteries connected are a store of power, available during peak times. NOT a draw from the grid. Just gotta change how we do things a little.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
Going to be interesting to see how the roads get funded once electric hits the tipping point. Gas tax would be unfair or simply too large. Maybe something built into the excise tax? Maybe something else that is a small weekly charge?

Gas taxes already don't come even close to covering road spending. Money is taken from general state and federal funds yet nobody complains about that.


Side note a deplorable I know claimed a few weeks ago that electric car owners are paying thousands of dollars a month in electric “it’s more expensive than gas!”
When asked why the few guys we know with teslas are saying their electric bill has jumped he said “their too embarrassed to admit it”

This seems pretty unbelievable. Electricity is way way cheaper than gas in basically the entire country.
 
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Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
16,851
13,792
146
Gas taxes already don't come even close to covering road spending. Money is taken from general state and federal funds yet nobody complains about that.




This seems pretty unbelievable. Electricity is way way cheaper than gas in basically the entire country.
It seems if we worst case EV / best case ICE we can get there.

Electrify America can run all the way up to $0.43 / kWh without membership. Take a 2 mile / kWh F150 and you can drive 4.65 miles / dollar.

Take an Ecoboost F150 at 23mpg and gas which the cheapest is $3.01/ gallon around here and your get 7.64miles/ dollar.

Charge it at home with $0.11 / kWh electricity and suddenly the lightning goes 18.2 miles/ dollar.

Electrify America and to a lesser extent the super charger network charging 3-4 times as much as residential power eats into the cost savings of an EV.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,892
34,854
136
It seems if we worst case EV / best case ICE we can get there.

Electrify America can run all the way up to $0.43 / kWh without membership. Take a 2 mile / kWh F150 and you can drive 4.65 miles / dollar.

Take an Ecoboost F150 at 23mpg and gas which the cheapest is $3.01/ gallon around here and your get 7.64miles/ dollar.

Charge it at home with $0.11 / kWh electricity and suddenly the lightning goes 18.2 miles/ dollar.

Electrify America and to a lesser extent the super charger network charging 3-4 times as much as residential power eats into the cost savings of an EV.

Yea you really have to strain go get there though or live in some strange area with absolutely sky high electricity prices, though those same places like have higher than average fuel prices too.

It really stretches credibility that most Tesla owners are secretly embarrassed that their power bill is more than it would have cost them in gas since most of them are almost certainly charging at home.
 
Mar 11, 2004
23,187
5,649
146
This is why mandates are a terrible idea.

Best way to make it partisan and yet another culture war issue. Lots of Ds will also hate their choices being taken away.

Let competition do its work

Mandates would be nice to be unnecessary but unfortunately we have shit for brains and shills that will sow chaos using FUD to fuck things up.

That happens regardless so who fucking cares? Right wingers can literally just make shit up and turn it into a cultural war. They turned Starbucks not putting Merry Christmas on cups into a culture war, so if that's your argument then damn your argument is terrible.

I'd agree if it was actual competition. Like if we weren't subsidizing the fuck outta fossil fuel industry (at basically every step of the way). And that's not even actually making things fair, like if we were to take into account negative externalities (like the health affects of burning fossil fuels, or climate change, etc, etc.)
 
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