Have fun with this one...

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woolfe9999

Diamond Member
Mar 28, 2005
7,153
0
0
Answering "yes" to these questions mean you're a racists?





I would think the opposite, because answering "no" may indicate a belief that black people are less capable than other races.

Regardless, I think this says more about the assumptions, attitudes and bias of those constructing this study than the respondants.

Fern

I tend to agree with you. Perhaps the question about black issues getting too much play is a bit better indicator, but on the whole, I don't think these poll results are all that conclusive on the question of race. It is very difficult to measure attitudes toward race in opinion polls because racial animus tends to be concealed, so you have to go about it in more round about ways, and then it is always arguable whether the question asked really captures animus or not.

I'm not that interested in the "racist" aspect of the tea party movement. I think it's probably higher than in the general population to some degree, but I don't see it as the driving force or central component by any means. We had a rise of militia movements, which I see as somewhat parallel to this, under Clinton, and the Clintons were white.

More interesting is that the polling data clearly identifies the tea party movement as more of a conservative movement than a libertarian movement. Libertarians are on the right on fiscal/economic issues, the left on social issues, and the left on foreign policy issues. At least that is pretty much the pure libertarian stance. Yet poll data is showing anti-choice, anti gay marriage, anti drug legalization, pro patriot act, not to mention strong GWB and republican approval ratings, and high admiration of Christian conservatives like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. There are certainly libertarians in this movement, but predominantly it's just a conservative movement.

- wolf
 

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
9,500
6
81
I read it but it makes no sense. How do you control for "partisanship and ideology" when asking questions that are all about "partisanship and ideology"? It is like saying you surveyed Democrats and Republicans for their views on political topics and controlled for "partisanship and ideology".

One way would be to analyze the answers of those who identify themselves as Republican (= partisanship), very conservative (= ideology) non-Tea-Party members, and then compare those responses with the responses of those who identify themselves as being members of the Tea Party.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I tend to agree with you. Perhaps the question about black issues getting too much play is a bit better indicator, but on the whole, I don't think these poll results are all that conclusive on the question of race. It is very difficult to measure attitudes toward race in opinion polls because racial animus tends to be concealed, so you have to go about it in more round about ways, and then it is always arguable whether the question asked really captures animus or not.

I'm not that interested in the "racist" aspect of the tea party movement. I think it's probably higher than in the general population to some degree, but I don't see it as the driving force or central component by any means. We had a rise of militia movements, which I see as somewhat parallel to this, under Clinton, and the Clintons were white.

More interesting is that the polling data clearly identifies the tea party movement as more of a conservative movement than a libertarian movement. Libertarians are on the right on fiscal/economic issues, the left on social issues, and the left on foreign policy issues. At least that is pretty much the pure libertarian stance. Yet poll data is showing anti-choice, anti gay marriage, anti drug legalization, pro patriot act, not to mention strong GWB and republican approval ratings, and high admiration of Christian conservatives like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. There are certainly libertarians in this movement, but predominantly it's just a conservative movement.

- wolf

If they asked those questions specifically like they are brought up in this article then yeah there's no way you can figure out if someones racist or not. Good post btw.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,973
6,582
126
Holy crap, what a radical statement! /yawn

I think you said I knew nothing about you so I quoted your words that I referred to. Now, instead of claiming I spoke with no reference to any knowledge about you, you want to pretend that I am implying your words were supposed to be revolutionary. They are just your words and I gave you what they imply, big government so long as it's the kind you like.
 

BMW540I6speed

Golden Member
Aug 26, 2005
1,055
0
0
Congratulations, 21st century conservatives/Republicans, on forming your very own MoveOn copy-cat group.

Beat your chests with pride, or hang your heads in embarrassment, as you see fit.
 

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Simply put by Michael Moore on Larry King...
"If these tea people are really so outraged at gov, and not just there to carry signs of Obama made up as Hitler or Satan, then why do they not protest outside Goldman Sachs?"
Bigots BUSTED !!!!!
Lets face it... we all know exactly why they are there. We've known all along. They are fooling no one.
 

Noobtastic

Banned
Jul 9, 2005
3,721
0
0
Simply put by Michael Moore on Larry King...
"If these tea people are really so outraged at gov, and not just there to carry signs of Obama made up as Hitler or Satan, then why do they not protest outside Goldman Sachs?"
Bigots BUSTED !!!!!
.

 

zsdersw

Lifer
Oct 29, 2003
10,505
2
0
You believe is smaller government so long as you determine where government doesn't belong and huge government where you think it does.

This is a very good description of both the Democratic and Republican parties.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91
Simply put by Michael Moore on Larry King...
"If these tea people are really so outraged at gov, and not just there to carry signs of Obama made up as Hitler or Satan, then why do they not protest outside Goldman Sachs?"
Bigots BUSTED !!!!!
Lets face it... we all know exactly why they are there. We've known all along. They are fooling no one.

Given the number of former Goldman Sachs employees in the Obama administration they have that covered protesting outside government buildings.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,973
6,582
126
This is a very good description of both the Democratic and Republican parties.

This was what I originally said to Nick and his claim about wanting smaller government, one confined to upholding the constitution and national defense:

"Have you or have you not come to the realization that left or right, people want big government on issues that are important to them, the left a welfare state the right a military industrial complex to use short hand? Have you seen that you are just as insane as everybody else?"

He lives in self delusion but won't respond to any substance when he's shown
 

bamacre

Lifer
Jul 1, 2004
21,029
2
61
Still supporting that lie? You believe is smaller government so long as you determine where government doesn't belong and huge government where you think it does. As I pointed out, you are for useless defense and against internal nation building by caring for the American people. What you call good is evil.

You voted for someone who promised to expand the war in Afghanistan, which has expanded the number of innocent people being killed. Someone who increased the budget of the DoD. Seems to me you're living in a glass house and throwing stones.
 

daishi5

Golden Member
Feb 17, 2005
1,196
0
76
I tend to agree with you. Perhaps the question about black issues getting too much play is a bit better indicator, but on the whole, I don't think these poll results are all that conclusive on the question of race. It is very difficult to measure attitudes toward race in opinion polls because racial animus tends to be concealed, so you have to go about it in more round about ways, and then it is always arguable whether the question asked really captures animus or not.

I'm not that interested in the "racist" aspect of the tea party movement. I think it's probably higher than in the general population to some degree, but I don't see it as the driving force or central component by any means. We had a rise of militia movements, which I see as somewhat parallel to this, under Clinton, and the Clintons were white.

More interesting is that the polling data clearly identifies the tea party movement as more of a conservative movement than a libertarian movement. Libertarians are on the right on fiscal/economic issues, the left on social issues, and the left on foreign policy issues. At least that is pretty much the pure libertarian stance. Yet poll data is showing anti-choice, anti gay marriage, anti drug legalization, pro patriot act, not to mention strong GWB and republican approval ratings, and high admiration of Christian conservatives like Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin. There are certainly libertarians in this movement, but predominantly it's just a conservative movement.

- wolf

The first question really does seem to have a racist belief implied if you agree with it. If you believe that all blacks need to do to achieve equality is work as hard as whites do then, you you seem to blame blacks problems on their laziness. However, if you believe blacks could achieve equality by working harder, even harder than whites work, then it could be non-racist, but I doubt most people see the question that way. I think blacks could get the same results as white people with more work, but I also know that in order to do so, they have to work harder than white people. I don't talk with very many people who seem to share both beliefs. Most seem to believe either, the playing field is even and blacks just need to put forth the same effort, or they believe the playing field is unfair, and that hard work cannot overcome the imbalance.

Do you have any links for your polling data that shows the Tea Party supports conservative values, such as Patriot Act, gay discrimination, and anti drug? I had high hopes this might be a movement I could get behind, and I had not heard anything like this before.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
Do you have any links for your polling data that shows the Tea Party supports conservative values, such as Patriot Act, gay discrimination, and anti drug? I had high hopes this might be a movement I could get behind, and I had not heard anything like this before.

I think those positions will be incidental to what actually drives the Tea Partiers, and that is their demand for fiscal responsibility by government.

Everyone throws every conceivable position they can think of at the Tea Partiers, both in favor and against them, but these are projections rather than anything reflecting reality.

Again, they are not a political party, they are a PARTY against the full range of government fiscal irresponsibility and, maybe, the perceived disenfranchisement of those who want that level of responsibility.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
The following article does a good job in outlining the stupidity of both liberals and the press (oh, wait, they are the same!)

Media still clueless about Tea Parties

By: Noemie Emery
Washington Examiner
April 28, 2010

To hear the media tell it, the Tea Party movement is one of the most mysterious forces ever to surface in national life.

Since February 2009, when CNBC's Rick Santelli urged his listeners to dump unfunded derivatives into Lake Michigan to protest the developing culture of bailouts, they have been nothing but open about their fears of insolvency, their discomfort with increasing size of the government and their terror of deficits.

The media listen closely to all these objections, and decide they must mean something else. They say they fear debt, and the media insist that they must fear Hispanics (why they hate Marco Rubio), that they fear blacks (why they hate Thomas Sowell), that they fear strong women (why they want Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin to be sent back to the kitchen in chains).

Much as the Republican win in the 1994 midterms was dismissed as a "tantrum" by the late Peter Jennings, Tea Partiers are described as being driven by inchoate anger, but the spin on their nature has tended to change.

First, they were described as an ignorant rabble, much as the Washington Post had once pegged evangelicals. Then polls showed that they were a rabble that was better off and better informed than the public in general, and they became a selfish and privileged rabble: a privileged rabble parading as populists.

"An aggrieved elite," Dana Milbank sniffed. "Race is part of the picture," E.J. Dionne noted. "The Tea Partiers aren't standing up for the little guy; they're standing up TO the little guy," Peter Beinart complained. "The Tea Partiers favor the economically and racially privileged. ... What the Tea Partiers dislike about Barack Obama's economic policies is that they don't do enough for the rich."

What Tea Partiers dislike about Obama's policies is that they've tripled the national debt.

"Something unique happened in Obama's first year," Daniel Henninger wrote. "The veil was ripped from the true cost of government. This is a ghastly nightmare the Democrats have needed to keep locked in a crypt."

Obama began with a $787 billion stimulus package (which most economists have now dismissed as a failure), passed a fiscal 2010 budget of $3.5 trillion, passed a fiscal 2011 budget of $3.8 trillion, and passed his health care reform bill, for additional trillions whose scope we don't know. Henninger pegs this year's spending at $9 trillion.

The Tea Party is a popular, not a populist, movement, a grass-roots uprising against the cost and expansion of government power. It fears that the debt has become unsustainable. Do not expect Dionne or Beinart to recognize this.

Don't expect from New York magazine's John Heilemann either, who told a panel on Chris Matthews' program that the protesters' motives were all Greek to him. "What is the focus, what is the cause of this? You think back to 1994, there was Ruby Ridge. There was Waco. There were triggering incidents. There's been nothing like that."

"The only thing that's changed in the past 15 months is the election of Barack Obama. As far as I can see, in terms of the policies that Obama has implemented, there's nothing," he said.

Under the heading of "nothing" would be debt in the trillions, Greece going bankrupt, California tanking under the weight of public service unions and their extravagant benefits, other states foundering, and massive entitlements being added on in the midst of a recession.

Other than that, of course, there's nothing to see here. Nothing. Nothing at all.

Examiner Columnist Noemie Emery is contributing editor to the Weekly Standard and author of "Great Expectations: The Troubled Lives of Political Families."
 
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Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
126
Answering "yes" to these questions mean you're a racists?





I would think the opposite, because answering "no" may indicate a belief that black people are less capable than other races.

Regardless, I think this says more about the assumptions, attitudes and bias of those constructing this study than the respondants.

Fern

The problem is that it fails to take into account the historical disadvantage of the minority in this country.

Things tend not to be equal for black Americans; arguing we should not try to remedy this situation is, in fact, racist.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
The problem is that it fails to take into account the historical disadvantage of the minority in this country.

Things tend not to be equal for black Americans; arguing we should not try to remedy this situation is, in fact, racist.

The Republican Party, the party that freed the slaves, has the historical disadvantage of being the minority party in this country.

Things certainly tend not to be equal for Republicans.

Arguing we should not try to remedy this situation is, in fact, racist.
 

HGC

Senior member
Dec 22, 1999
605
0
0
I never understand the accusations of racism.
From politicians, they're almost always cynical Alinskyite propaganda points, picked up, believed, and repeated by the ignorant.

Real racism exists, but it is, thankfully, rare. The idea that it is popular with the millions of tea-partiers is ludicrous.
 

Cuda1447

Lifer
Jul 26, 2002
11,757
0
71
Still supporting that lie? You believe is smaller government so long as you determine where government doesn't belong and huge government where you think it does. As I pointed out, you are for useless defense and against internal nation building by caring for the American people. What you call good is evil.

*beep beep* Whack job alert, Whack job alert! Hide your children, cover your ears! *beep beep*
 

Kappo

Platinum Member
Aug 18, 2000
2,381
0
0
Still supporting that lie? You believe is smaller government so long as you determine where government doesn't belong and huge government where you think it does. As I pointed out, you are for useless defense and against internal nation building by caring for the American people. What you call good is evil.


So, what you are saying is that the government is good because the people are crappy. K. Gotcha. I'm not of the mindset that people need to be told everything to do at all times, regardless of how crappy they are. You seem to disagree. Guidelines are ok, micro managing should be outlawed.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,973
6,582
126
You voted for someone who promised to expand the war in Afghanistan, which has expanded the number of innocent people being killed. Someone who increased the budget of the DoD. Seems to me you're living in a glass house and throwing stones.

The lesser of two evils. You live in a grass house and stow thrones. And one day your attic will collapse from the weight and kill you.
 

PJABBER

Diamond Member
Feb 8, 2001
4,822
0
0
From politicians, they're almost always cynical Alinskyite propaganda points, picked up, believed, and repeated by the ignorant.

Real racism exists, but it is, thankfully, rare. The idea that it is popular with the millions of tea-partiers is ludicrous.

In three sentences you have captured the essence of what racism really means in the United States in 2010.

We have overcome!
 

ProfJohn

Lifer
Jul 28, 2006
18,161
7
0
Simply put by Michael Moore on Larry King...
"If these tea people are really so outraged at gov, and not just there to carry signs of Obama made up as Hitler or Satan, then why do they not protest outside Goldman Sachs?"
Because Goldman Sachs doesn't take money from people via taxes.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,973
6,582
126
So, what you are saying is that the government is good because the people are crappy. K. Gotcha. I'm not of the mindset that people need to be told everything to do at all times, regardless of how crappy they are. You seem to disagree. Guidelines are ok, micro managing should be outlawed.

Dear Cuda and Kappo, You make your comments because you did not read the thread.
 
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