Have they already won??

[Double Trouble]

In watching the news over the last few days, I can't help but think that we've essentially already let the bad guys win, no matter what we do in Afghanistan or anywhere else.

The motivation behind a dispicable act like the WTC attack is to 'terrorize' the population, to remove their feeling of 'safety', to remove their comfort zone, and to change the way they conduct their day to day lives. While it appears that the nation is more united now than ever (as it should be in time of crisis), it also appears that all the talk about "not fearing, but strengthening resolve" is a bunch of hot air. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like people are in a state of paranoia and/or hysteria, thinking any little thing is some sort of "terror attack". Car accident? Must have been a terror attack. Weird powder somewhere? Must be antrax. Plane has to land because of some mechanical problem? Must be another attempted hijacking.

People simply no longer feel 'safe' in public places. We're willing to give up all sorts of civil liberties to gain the false illusion of security. Haz-mat crews are scrambling to keep up with all the false reports of hazardous chemicals, people are afraid to fly, people with the flu think they have anthrax etc etc. In essence, the reality of it is, we've already allowed them to force us (as a society) to live in fear, to change our lives (no more carryon luggage, security everywhere, no more taking bags to a sporting event, long lines at every major event etc), and even to turn on our own people (attacks on people of Arab descent). Doesn't that fulfill all the basic goals of a terrorist attack??

Any other takes?

:frown:

 

[Tauren]

I refuse to allow this to change my way of life.

 

[themightyplatypus]

I will not live in fear.

 

[Elledan]

Terrorism is the most effective kind of war. The country which is being attacked does not see its enemies, attacks can not be predicted. Conventional ways of warfare fail against terrorism, because there's no army, country to attack, no leaders to take hostile or to kill.

In short, terrorism is basically unstoppable. The attacked country has just two options: giving in to the terrorists' wishes, or to regain control over the situation, which requires a lot of diplomacy, skill and intelligence. No or little violence.

 

[spaceman]

I disagree,i think making an example out of the groups responsible will make future organizations think twice.

 

[kami]

<< The attacked country has just two options: giving in to the terrorists' wishes, or to regain control over the situation, which requires a lot of diplomacy, skill and intelligence. No or little violence. >>


If any country in the world is capable of this, it's the United States. But no violence? Personally I think it's a good idea to blow those terrorist camps into oblivion. Bunker Buster bomb anyone ?

 

[Carbo]

tagej, you hit the bullseye. All across America, despite the flag waving and macho bravado, our lives have been forever changed. That change is due to fear, sadly. We now realize we are not immune to an attack within our borders, the security we took for granted is no longer so, and we face an enemy we can neither understand nor bully into submission. September 11 marked a turning point for America, and a turn for the worse.

 

[ToBeMe]

They've won a battle.......whether they win the war is up to the rest of the world. Yes, not just the USA but the whole world whom values freedom because once they would tire of tromenting the USA does anyone actually believe they would just cease to exist???? Of course not! These people ARE fanatics and would target someone else next!

We seem to be doing things correctly to date in this situation and I have every confidence not only in the USA but in the world as a whole that we will prevail and be able to severely limit these peoples effectiveness Worldwide! Hopefully the US's foreign policies will be adjusted to allow more evenly distributed support where it is needed, but, it is also a fact that no matter how hard we try, we will never appease everyone..............

 

[ChrichtonsGirl]

To some extent though, this hyper-vigilance will fade in time. Everyone is naturally feeling a bit unsafe and frightened; the sheer magnitude of what happened has a lot to do with it. As sad as it sounds, I think if we'd only had one plane hijacked and crashed into a field, we wouldn't be experiencing the same kinds of fear and paranoia. We can handle disaster on a small scale, but no post-Baby Boomer has any comparison for something this large.

I wasn't around then so I can't say this was true for everyone, but my grandfather who fought in WW2 and the Korean War talked about how unsafe and paranoid the U.S. was after the bombing of Pearl Harbor - just look at the internment camps for proof of the mass hysteria. But it faded over time and people went on living.

The terrorists may have accomplished what they wanted to in the short term, but they have not and will not make us change who we fundamentally are.

 

[burnedout]

Just a few thoughts...........

If one looked at the attendance figures for the college and pro football games played over the weekend, one would see the attacks had very little effect on the "gathering" aspect of our lives.

Are we more afraid? No, I really don't believe so. Are we more concerned and prepared? Yes. We now react to minor events without dismissal of the initial significance.

September 11th changed the way America does business. The terrorists exploited weaknesses within our society to achieve certain goals. Our complacency was used to their advantage. Most of the previous weaknesses are, however, no more.

Terrorism of the magnitude we witnessed can be curtailed with hard work, diplomacy, intelligence gathering, legal proceedings, internal reforms and powerful military strikes.

The object now is to keep them guessing what WE are going to do.

<edit>sPeLinG</edit>

 

[ToBeMe]

<< I wasn't around then so I can't say this was true for everyone, but my grandfather who fought in WW2 and the Korean War talked about how unsafe and paranoid the U.S. was after the bombing of Pearl Harbor - just look at the internment camps for proof of the mass hysteria. But it faded over time and people went on living. >>


You're dead on with this statement! The US was parinoid to an extent well beyond what we are now after the bombing of Pearl! To say that the current state of our country competes to that time is untrue.......research what went on after that, the effects were ten-fold to what we are now seeing! People abandoned their jobs and relocated to assist in the war effort....rashioning was put into place to assure our troops had enough of everything. My Mother, though she was young at the time remembers all of that and we were discussing it just last weekend.........they were allowed 15 lbs. of sugar a month (may sound like a lot now....but remember, very few people ate out in that era....it was a luxory) and you wwere given vouchers to purchase other supplies/groceries also such as meat & dairy products, not to mention fuel for vehicles.

We are nowhere near where we were then........yet.........

 

[Tauren]

When the smoke clears and the paranoia is gone, all that they have done is made us stronger and more aware of their presence. They have won nothing! We have won already by not lying down and allowing their kind of garbage to survive and thrive. We had been living in a dream world thinking we were untouchable. All they have done is bring about the realization, that even though we are not terrorists, we are not exempt from their attacks.

We will definately be very harsh in our judgements of their activities in the future. The entire world will. They have sealed their fate.

 

[Tominator]

<< even to turn on our own people (attacks on people of Arab descent). >>



I was with you until that part. The reports of such happenings are way down and now every complaint of a hang nail will be front page news.

For the first time since World War II our nation has been threatened. In all conflicts since we were only protecting our ideals. We have only to look back to the generation that lived through WWII to understand what we are going through. They lived through it and so will we. It changed them. Are we so full of ourselves that we can't fathom having to come to grips with the reality that we are afterall only mortal?

Human beings have been through worse and to even think we are so advanced compared to those that have lived history that we are the first, is to plan our own demise.

There IS nothing new here. It IS good against EVIL. Nothing more, nothing less.

We are our own worst enemy.

On September 11th, 2001 we as a people for the first time in over 50 years, were faced with the fact that human beings do not have all the answers we thought we had.

Every endeavor mankind has worked and sweated for was driven to it's knees on that day!

You are completely blind if you cannot see that in huge numbers People are turning to a higher source for answers...because WE don't have all of them! Your science and technology were as helpless as a newborn on that day.

Who will save us from ourselves?

 

[Capn]

Let's see.....

Bin Laden wants the U.S. out of the Middle East, then he wants to topple U.S. friendly regimes in the middle east and instill more governments similar to the Taliban.

I don't see that happening, so no, they haven't won.

 

[Tauren]

<<Every endeavor mankind has worked and sweated for was driven to it's knees on that day!>>

That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard in 32 years. Please make more of them, so that myself and others get a good laugh.

 

Like I have said before, I could die from a terrorist attack or I could die in a car accident. I am not going to let some caveboy who is only capable of random acts of violence change my life. They will never win.

In the end when I am in Heaven and they are getting ass-slammed by Satan in hell, I will win again

 

[jjones]

ChrichtonsGirl - couldn't agree more. right now it's better safe than sorry so you see and hear all of the extra precaution especially with the media attention to every little thing.

 

[jjones]

<< No or little violence. >>



i can't agree with the no violence because you can't turn your cheek on terrorism, ever. but i do agree on little violence exactly as we're doing now in measured steps to fulfill a specific purpose.

 

[Elledan]

<<

<< The attacked country has just two options: giving in to the terrorists' wishes, or to regain control over the situation, which requires a lot of diplomacy, skill and intelligence. No or little violence. >>


If any country in the world is capable of this, it's the United States. But no violence? Personally I think it's a good idea to blow those terrorist camps into oblivion. Bunker Buster bomb anyone ? >>

I see you don't understand.

Let me explain: terrorism is carried out by one or more groups which are not located in the same location. They can be located all over the planet.
The conventional way of warfare against a country is to use force to destroy large parts of the army of the enemy country until it has weakened too far to offer much resistance or surrenders. Terrorism can not be fought using those methods.
Terrorist groups consist out of 'cells', which are spread over a large area. Using conventional methods, like those which are being used now in Afghanistan, one can take down one, or a few cells, but it is impossible to destroy all of them. In a sense, they 'regenerate' after an attack. As long as any cells remain, or at least one person is willing to start a new cell, terrorism will remain.
This is due to the fact that terrorism isn't used as a weapon to obtain large amounts of land, conquer a country, or the world. In fact, its best use is to disrupt the normal activity in a country, which is a very convincing argument for that country to listen to the terrorists.

So, one can not even hope to destroy terrorism using conventional methods. What is needed is a different approach, one which will either take away the reason why those terrorists are willing to attack a country, even if it would cost them their lives, or to turn them against themselves.

My advice to the US is to pull back its troops, decrease support for Israel and to do its homework before taking any action. It's time for the US to review its history, its involvement in the politics of countless countries and its attitude towards the rest of the world.

The alternative? If the US continues along this path, it might very well result in the total destruction of the US as we know it.

 

[Elledan]

<< When the smoke clears and the paranoia is gone, all that they have done is made us stronger and more aware of their presence. They have won nothing! We have won already by not lying down and allowing their kind of garbage to survive and thrive. We had been living in a dream world thinking we were untouchable. All they have done is bring about the realization, that even though we are not terrorists, we are not exempt from their attacks.

We will definately be very harsh in our judgements of their activities in the future. The entire world will. They have sealed their fate. >>

You're fooling yourself. Those terrorists knew exactly what would happen after those attacks. They knew that the world would unite against terrorism. They knew that the US wouldn't rest before having found those behind the attacks. They knew that the US would strike against any terrorist-cell they could find.

It's why the attacks against the US aren't over yet. It will probably get much worse.

 

[Jzero]

<< People simply no longer feel 'safe' in public places. >>



You ahhhhhhh got a frog in your pocket, there? Things have changed. Some people are scared. A lot of us aren't going to live in fear, though. The terrorists won what they call a "pyrrhic victory."

Oh sure...the killed a lot of people and shocked our nation.
In doing so they signed their own death warrants.

 

[StageLeft]

I wouldn't say there is mass hysteria, but people are more concerned and liable to jump the gun on conclusions.

It is simply inevitable that there is a greater feeling of fear. In that sense they won to get it. However most people do continue to act as normal and have confidence in the future. Furthermore its going to be tough calling them the winner when their bones are charred.

 

[Tominator]

Tauren

Do you deny the world almost literally stopped that morning? Everyone I know plodded on in total shock not really thinking....

Support you allegation or STFU!:|

 

[TapTap]

Society has changed forever here...for the good.
No longer will people turn a blind eye to any sort of "curious" situation:
"Ah, you want to borrow the Flight Simulator for 3 hours to learn how to steer the airplane, but not land it? And you are willing to pay an obscene amount of cash? Okey doke."
If the population is ever vigilant, acts of this magnitude will NEVER happen again. In Israel, this is a fact of life. They presevere, and they LIVE. They get hit EVERY SINGLE DAY by something, be it a sniper, bus bomb, or assaination.
It is gonna happen here folks.
So keep your eyes and ears open, "Duck and Cover"
As I write this, a 3rd case of anthrax has been annouced here in the Sunshine State. May not be terrorists--but I know they took "practice runs" on the flights they eventually hijacked for months leading up to the attack.
Scary huh?

 

[Tauren]

<<You're fooling yourself. Those terrorists knew exactly what would happen after those attacks. They knew that the world would unite against terrorism. They knew that the US wouldn't rest before having found those behind the attacks. They knew that the US would strike against any terrorist-cell they could find.

It's why the attacks against the US aren't over yet. It will probably get much worse.>>


O.K....Just how exactly am I fooling myself? I see nothing in your statement that disproves the reality of what I said.