Hawaii has 37 power plants?!

[John Connor]

This is nuts! I have been researching power plants because I'm curios. It started with how the Falkland Islands gets their power and then researching where my town gets its power. I have always wondered how an isolated island such as Hawaii gets its power when I'm sure there is a lack of coal. I learned one plant that I know of gets its coal all the way from Indonesia.


I thought perhaps Hawaii would only have one or two power plants, but 37?! Holy shit!

http://www.powerplantjobs.com/ppj.nsf/powerplants1?openform&cat=hi&Count=500

 

[Ns1]

They also have solar. Lots and lots of solar.

 

[xBiffx]

Look at the output on some of those. Less than 10 MW.

You can get a wind turbine for a single home in the 10kW range. That means some of these are only able to provide power for roughly 100 homes.

Also, keep in mind, some of power is lost in transmission.

 

[CraKaJaX]

Being in power generation myself this is pretty interesting, but doesn't make sense. For example.. Hana Substation is shown as 2MW. However when you click on it, it shows two IC units at 1kW each. 2x1kW=2kW=/=2MW. I've never even heard of an IC unit being 1kW. That's basically nothing after I2R losses, etc. Am I missing something?

I'm not surprised that all of these plants are 20,30,50 years old. Of all the plants and stations I've been at, 90% of them are rust buckets. It's amazing the grid even works (I didn't say that...). No one wants to dump money into power stations anymore, they just keep patching shit to run another 5 years. I guess it's only providing you electricity - no big deal. Everyone is all about 'going green' or the classic NIMBY folks but are buying the latest and greatest shit out there that sucks energy like there's no tomorrow. Yea.... solar panels. Or WINDMILLS! We'll only need 500 million acres to provide the same amount of power an LM6000 may provide.

 

[John Connor]

I researched the plant that provides power to my town and they have one coal fired baseline unit and within the last 15 years or so added five NG powered GE turbine units for peak usage. I guess this plant is one of the cleanist in the country. It was built in '85. The five NG turbines are also used when they take the baseline unit down for repairs. Pretty damn cool if you ask me!

If you ask me NG is the way to go, and we got plenty of it!

 

[Ns1]

500 million acres you say? No problem.

 

[Brainonska511]

I'm not surprised that all of these plants are 20,30,50 years old. Of all the plants and stations I've been at, 90% of them are rust buckets. It's amazing the grid even works (I didn't say that...). No one wants to dump money into power stations anymore, they just keep patching shit to run another 5 years.

Hundreds of billions of dollars to blow up brown people we don't like in the Middle East? No problem.

Millions to billions of dollars for badly needed infrastructure? We need to tighten our belts, make due with the money we're already allocating, and the deficit blahblahblah

I guess it's only providing you electricity - no big deal. Everyone is all about 'going green' or the classic NIMBY folks but are buying the latest and greatest shit out there that sucks energy like there's no tomorrow. Yea.... solar panels. Or WINDMILLS! We'll only need 500 million acres to provide the same amount of power an LM6000 may provide.

I don't have a problem with "going green." But I realize that what it really means is we need an amalagam of energy sources. Build some solar and wind plants where it's feasible, but we should also be building newer nuclear plants, and maybe even some newer natural gas or coal plants. I believe, if we pulled our collective heads out of our asses, we could find a decent compromise between impacts on the environment, NIMBYism, FUD, and societal needs for power.

 

[CraKaJaX]

500 million acres you say? No problem.

I agree, 500 million acres is there ... but we have more issues. What about the wind? It's not constant. These blades are massive and take an incredible amount of energy to get moving. What about all the turning gear that are on each? Where are you storing the energy? Batteries - where? What about maintenance? Boats, property, etc. Of course the animal folks will be all up in arms because you're killing birds and shit too. The list just goes on.

 

[Ns1]

Yet somehow they seem to be popping up all over the place in Europe...


But seriously though you're right that it would never work in HI. I mean look at how fast those guys torpedoed the island ferry.

 

[John Connor]

Hundreds of billions of dollars to blow up brown people we don't like in the Middle East? No problem.

Millions to billions of dollars for badly needed infrastructure? We need to tighten our belts, make due with the money we're already allocating, and the deficit blahblahblah



I don't have a problem with "going green." But I realize that what it really means is we need an amalagam of energy sources. Build some solar and wind plants where it's feasible, but we should also be building newer nuclear plants, and maybe even some newer natural gas or coal plants. I believe, if we pulled our collective heads out of our asses, we could find a decent compromise between impacts on the environment, NIMBYism, FUD, and societal needs for power.

We send billions to countries that don't like us, that's the problem.

 

[CraKaJaX]

Hundreds of billions of dollars to blow up brown people we don't like in the Middle East? No problem.

Millions to billions of dollars for badly needed infrastructure? We need to tighten our belts, make due with the money we're already allocating, and the deficit blahblahblah



I don't have a problem with "going green." But I realize that what it really means is we need an amalagam of energy sources. Build some solar and wind plants where it's feasible, but we should also be building newer nuclear plants, and maybe even some newer natural gas or coal plants. I believe, if we pulled our collective heads out of our asses, we could find a decent compromise between impacts on the environment, NIMBYism, FUD, and societal needs for power.

I completely agree, but unfortunately no one will ever compromise. When everyone on the totem pole is involved it's impossible to come to an agreement.

 

[rcpratt]

Yeah, this is a function of it being isolated from the greater electric grid. When loads are high, they have to generate all that power themselves. When loads are high on the mainland, generally loads are not high everywhere and some of that extra power can be "imported" from elsewhere.

 

[dank69]

Probably much more cost effective to have a plant on each island than to try to distribute power from island to island.

 

[Malfeas]

I agree, 500 million acres is there ... but we have more issues. What about the wind? It's not constant. These blades are massive and take an incredible amount of energy to get moving. What about all the turning gear that are on each? Where are you storing the energy? Batteries - where? What about maintenance? Boats, property, etc. Of course the animal folks will be all up in arms because you're killing birds and shit too. The list just goes on.

The maintenance on that would be a nightmare, gaining access to the towers, corrosion from sea salt, etc. I guess if you like 2$/kwh rates that would be fine.

 

[K1052]

Hawaii now has the highest solar penetration of any US market. The utility has even stopped letting people commission more grid tied solar because they ignored the trend for too many years hoping it would go away and now have too much power being fed back into their old ass infrastructure.

Solar City is going to start offering an off-grid package next year to the Hawaii market which, if history is any guide so far, should be popular.

 

[Ns1]

The maintenance on that would be a nightmare, gaining access to the towers, corrosion from sea salt, etc. I guess if you like 2$/kwh rates that would be fine.

So how does Europe do it?

 

[boomerang]

Probably much more cost effective to have a plant on each island than to try to distribute power from island to island.

Ya think?

Kauai to Oahu to Molokai
Kauai and Oahu are 63 miles apart. Twenty-two miles separate the islands of Oahu and Molokai.

Molokai to Maui and Lanai
There are 7.5 miles between Molokai and Maui. Eight miles separate Molokai and the island of Lanai, which lies directly south.

Lanai to Maui and Kahoolawe
Lanai lies due west of Maui and the islands are separated by 8 miles. There are 15 miles between Lanai and the tiny island of Kahoolawe.

Kahoolawe to Maui
Only 6 miles are between the islands of Kahoolawe and Maui.

Maui to Hawaii (The Big Island)
There are 26 miles between Maui and the largest island, Hawaii.

 

[spacejamz]

Probably much more cost effective to have a plant on each island than to try to distribute power from island to island.

what is the count by island? When I was i Kaui a few months ago, on the helicopter tour, they mentioned a fairly new plant that burned trees to generate power.... They have large forests of this specific tree for that purpose...

 

[K1052]

So how does Europe do it?

Because in reality it costs about a 1/10th of that.

 

[Ns1]

Because in reality it costs about a 1/10th of that.

Shhhh, I was waiting for his reply.

 

[sdifox]

I am really impressed by the European offshore wind farm installation. Especially the ships.

 

[Mark R]

So how does Europe do it?

Government subsidies.

The UK has a huge offshore wind industry - the government pays a guaranteed price of $0.25 per kWh.

Extra bonus payments of up to $2/kWh are paid if the grid has no need for the power (or power lines are maxed out and cannot carry the power from the wind farm) and the wind farm is required to throttle their turbines.

 

[Linflas]

Sailed under these a few times on an aircraft carrier (USS Independence). The power lines are gone now but the towers are still there.

Pylons of Messina

 

[mikeford]

Yet somehow they seem to be popping up all over the place in Europe...

Reason for caution right there. We don't need to adopt every potentially loony idea on a mass scale, let the tech prove itself and slowly scale as more promising ideas come up.

 

[NoTine42]

I agree, 500 million acres is there ... but we have more issues. What about the wind? It's not constant. These blades are massive and take an incredible amount of energy to get moving. What about all the turning gear that are on each? Where are you storing the energy? Batteries - where? What about maintenance? Boats, property, etc. Of course the animal folks will be all up in arms because you're killing birds and shit too. The list just goes on.

Then harness wave power with underwater "balloons"
http://www.sciencealert.com/world-s-first-grid-connected-wave-power-station-switched-on-in-australia