HBO's Game of Thrones season 6 discussion thread- airing 4/24/16 (No book spoilers)

[zinfamous]

Why does Jon want to wage a siege against Ramsy? Snow is outnumbered two to one and the attacker if anything faces a disadvantage against a fortified building. It seems like Theon went on about how you'd only need a fraction of the men to hold out against many more when hunkering down in a well built fort. If that's true, why not sit in Castle Black and wait for Ramsy to make the first move? The politics of Ramsy clearly being the aggressor aside, it seems like a more strategic move.

There is a duty from Jon and Sansa's perspective that supersedes anything. Ramsay is a usurper, a Stark must be in Winterfell, and Ramsay has their brother hostage.

Not only that, but Ramsay must be dealt with immediately because of the threat from north of the wall. Ramsay's presence fractures all of the North and they need a united north to deal with the real threat from the Walkers. There really is no other option but to go to Winterfell and deal with Ramsay post-haste.

 

[blankslate]

While "cool" it was out of place I thought in GoT. Nobody has really had anything like that -- its just been swords and boards and maybe a spear or axe.

Maybe Benjen invented it. It has the advantage of perhaps being able to bypass shields and impact weapons like a morning star/flail can be more effective than bladed weapons against armor.

 

[BrokenVisage]

It is known. People used photoshop and screenshot.

It is known.

 

[poofyhairguy]

Also perhaps the Starks and Jon know of secret ways into the crypts below Winterfell or other weak points that would make attacking it much easier than expected.

Maybe Bran shows up last minute before Snow's forces lose and wargs some dumb guy inside Winterfell to open the gates in a dramatic fashion.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Castle Black isn't really the best fort, its very protected on the one side with the big wall but the other side seems very mediocre.

I think that's maybe what Davos was alluding too, he says there going to have to be smart with the number of people they have so there only chance might be in the open. They don't have siege equipment, but the Vale army could change the whole game.

There's also a timing factor. Jon knows what's coming. He can't just hunker down and wait, he's got to get the north sorted out so that they're ready for the real threat.

 

[Ichinisan]

That theory would be negated by the obscene amount of blood that billowed up in the water.

I didn't see that.

Besides, deception is an art. She could have had a pouch of red powder on her body somewhere.

She was walking through the streets at the end. I don't think her prospects are as grim as everyone else seems to think.

 

[Homerboy]

I didn't see that.

Besides, deception is an art. She could have had a pouch of red powder on her body somewhere.

She was walking through the streets at the end. I don't think her prospects are as grim as everyone else seems to think.

That's where the actor troupe might play in.

 

[z1ggy]

I didn't see that.

Besides, deception is an art. She could have had a pouch of red powder on her body somewhere.

She was walking through the streets at the end. I don't think her prospects are as grim as everyone else seems to think.

She could have been in shock, plus add in the adrenaline.

Few years ago, I was in a boxing match. Got knocked out cold for about 1 to 2 seconds then some how managed to get back on my feet like nothing happened.

3 hours later I was in an ambulance barely conscious.

 

[zinfamous]

She could have been in shock, plus add in the adrenaline.

Few years ago, I was in a boxing match. Got knocked out cold for about 1 to 2 seconds then some how managed to get back on my feet like nothing happened.

3 hours later I was in an ambulance barely conscious.

sorry, but that is pretty funny.

 

[z1ggy]

Protip: don't fight pro fighters if you're in amateur league.

Pretty sure Arya is going to live through this.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Protip: don't fight pro fighters if you're in amateur league.

Pretty sure Arya is going to live through this.

Oh course Arya will live through this, she didn't get stabbed.

 

[Exophase]

Neither really does Jaqen being Arya. There's no reason for him to flee, he could just say you enjoyed that a little too much, you fail.

On the face of things it doesn't really make sense.

But in a similar context the events that happened after Arya killed Meryn Trant don't really make sense either. We had Jaqen seemingly kill himself in order to provide the face that was promised to the Many-faced God through the assassination. Then we saw him apparently come back. We still don't really know what happened - was that just another Faceless Man who died? Is there even much of a distinction to begin with given they're "no one"?

It could be that if Arya is not Arya it's someone else who had to die for some reason.

Could be Jaqen is playing as Arya. Another possibility is The Waif is playing as Arya (in an attempt to lure her out) and Jaqen is playing as The Waif in order to really shock/confuse her. Not sure I've seen this one floated here yet. It'd still be pretty bizarre but at least it'd be reasonably consistent with how everyone acted last episode.

Why does Jon want to wage a siege against Ramsy? Snow is outnumbered two to one and the attacker if anything faces a disadvantage against a fortified building. It seems like Theon went on about how you'd only need a fraction of the men to hold out against many more when hunkering down in a well built fort. If that's true, why not sit in Castle Black and wait for Ramsy to make the first move? The politics of Ramsy clearly being the aggressor aside, it seems like a more strategic move.

Don't know if he's really anticipating a siege, more like he'll make the first move and see how Ramsay reacts. Roose wanted to hold out against Stannis and let his army freeze trying to overtake them, but Ramsay went on the offensive. They may hope for his overconfidence and underestimation of the wildling's organization.

 

[Childs]

Another possibility is The Waif is playing as Arya (in an attempt to lure her out) and Jaqen is playing as The Waif in order to really shock/confuse her. Not sure I've seen this one floated here yet. It'd still be pretty bizarre but at least it'd be reasonably consistent with how everyone acted last episode.

I dont get the reasoning behind this. Why would The Waif playing Arya lure Arya out? That would only work if she was trying to lure someone who knows Arya. If I see another version of myself walking around and I knew faceless men were after me I'd GTFO! Not confront the imposter and say "Hey, whats going on? Who are you?"

 

[Exophase]

I dont get the reasoning behind this. Why would The Waif playing Arya lure Arya out? That would only work if she was trying to lure someone who knows Arya. If I see another version of myself walking around and I knew faceless men were after me I'd GTFO! Not confront the imposter and say "Hey, whats going on? Who are you?"

Yeah the setup doesn't really make sense.

I guess Jaqen playing Arya to lure The Waif is more plausible.

 

[zinfamous]

Yeah the setup doesn't really make sense.

I guess Jaqen playing Arya to lure The Waif is more plausible.

And why would Jaqen allow himself be surprised by some random old lady suddenly becoming interested in him?

My main problem with that scene is that Arya/Waif/Jaqen would somehow be surprised by a strange old lady becoming very interested in them very quickly.

I would have stabbed and run as soon as that creepy lady got close enough.

 

[Exophase]

And why would Jaqen allow himself be surprised by some random old lady suddenly becoming interested in him?

Why would Jaqen kill "himself" to satisfy Arya's first failed mission? While one looks more deliberate than the other the outcome is about the same and about as confusing.

In this scenario Jaqen's reaction would probably be be staged.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

And why would Jaqen allow himself be surprised by some random old lady suddenly becoming interested in him?

My main problem with that scene is that Arya/Waif/Jaqen would somehow be surprised by a strange old lady becoming very interested in them very quickly.

I would have stabbed and run as soon as that creepy lady got close enough.

That. Whoever that was wearing Arya's face clearly wanted to be attacked. The question is why? We can discount that fact that the real Arya would behave that way and be so easily ambushed against her will, that's the biggest load of nonsense possible. If the Faceless Men were laying a test for the Waif they most definitely would stop it short of giving her a free shot at whoever was impersonating Arya as bait. They'd be wearing armor under their clothes or switch out her weapon in advance, they wouldn't just stand there and allow themselves to be stabbed hoping to get lucky and survive.

Maybe a sham? The Faceless Men were testing the Waif and sent out the real Arya or an Arya impersonator wearing some theater equipment like armor AND a blood pack to make the attack look real and still protect the bait. Or the real Arya again with a theater-inspired little play, armor and stage blood to goad the Waif into attacking knowing she could escape and counter-attack when the Waif thought her dead?

Even that seems far fetched as the real Waif was a trained assassin. She would recognize Arya acting that way as a trap, the real Arya would not be so easy to sneak up on.

 

[Exophase]

Okay, so.. what happened with the Jaqen-alike who appeared to be poisoned to death to satisfy the face? A Faceless Man really died? Or maybe they can appear to die and come back?

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I am sticking with the idea Arya is a better student than the waif, and out maneuvering her. In addition to the speculation I have already shared, another thing that makes me think that, is what Jaqen says to the waif as she leaves to kill her - "A shame, a girl had many gifts." High praise of Arya's capabilities and potential.

Arya did not find the assassin's guild, they recruited her. Her failures were not due to inability to perform the tasks, but because of her own judgement calls. Even blinding her makes more sense as training, than it does as punishment. She has learned not to rely on any one sense too heavily. But rather to hone and use all of them to the best of her ability.

If the scooby doo or fight club trope happen, you guys feel free to trout smack me for it.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Okay, so.. what happened with the Jaqen-alike who appeared to be poisoned to death to satisfy the face? A Faceless Man really died? Or maybe they can appear to die and come back?

Or it was acting. Or illusion. Deception is their bag, you cannot trust what you see when dealing with the faceless men.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Even that seems far fetched as the real Waif was a trained assassin. She would recognize Arya acting that way as a trap, the real Arya would not be so easy to sneak up on.

Would she? Again, a girl has many gifts. And the waif loses her shit around Arya. Every time they are near each other, it is like a "Triggered!" meme.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Would she? Again, a girl has many gifts. And the waif loses her shit around Arya. Every time they are near each other, it is like a "Triggered!" meme.

Yes, she would. The Faceless Men as trained to spot lies, they spent a shitload of time on that. They're trained to study their prey. They're trained to pick their spots. And you honestly believe that the Waif could know Arya was marked for death and would be out there like that acting in a manner which is like a giant flashing "kill me!!" neon sign on her back without thinking "Hmmmm, this seems too easy"? Really?

Holy crap, of all the idiotic theories about what went down, the idea that the real Waif managed to sneak up on the real Arya who was really acting that was is by far the most idiotic.

 

[Phoenix86]

The most obvious answer is Arya baited the Waif who was using a mask and is using theater tricks (blood). I think you guys are making it super difficult.

 

[Exophase]

The most obvious answer is Arya baited the Waif who was using a mask and is using theater tricks (blood). I think you guys are making it super difficult.

That's really doesn't seem like a smart plan. How could Arya possibly predict exactly where she'd get stabbed? How could she expect a blood packet to actually protect her from a knife anyway, and yet still be something The Waif wouldn't pick up on?

Maybe there's a better explanation for how this could work, it just sounds really sloppy.

 

[Childs]

Would she? Again, a girl has many gifts. And the waif loses her shit around Arya. Every time they are near each other, it is like a "Triggered!" meme.

She may loose her shit, but she always beats Arya. We havent really seen anything that shows that Arya has improved to beat her either physically or mentally. I thought they were going to use the dark as something that leveled the playing field, which they probably will still do.

The most obvious answer is Arya baited the Waif who was using a mask and is using theater tricks (blood). I think you guys are making it super difficult.

I'm curious as to how this would actually work. Its not like The Waif was using a spring loaded knife or was in on the illusion. Those were some deep shots. And I think an assassin would know the difference between actually stabbing someone and stabbing armor or three inches of leather or something. Maybe she had a thick slab of meat strapped to her torso, but that wouldnt work if The Waif tried to slit her throat or stab her in the back.