HBO's Game of Thrones season 6 discussion thread- airing 4/24/16 (No book spoilers)

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Skel

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2001
6,218
661
136
Whats Margaery's play by letting Loras/Cersei stand trial before the seven? Since trial by combat is outlawed, theres no way Loras is going to be acquitted. Has house Tyrell sacrificed Loras to ally with the Sparrows? Maybe they feel that he is a ponce who is dispensable along with Cersei.

The episode 9 preview shows Jon's army getting clobbered by Ramsay. Thats a crap way for Jon to finally meet his end.

Sometimes you have to sacrifice a someone close to win the game. She's playing a different game and appears to be stealing Tommen with religion rather than the sex she started with. It's a smart play as he'd get board and start thinking with his brain after a while. There's also the idea that she'll dispose of the Sparrow before his trail comes up.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,752
1,309
126
In Arya's case, it may be that she was stabbed with a very thin blade almost like an ice pick. I'm not a doctor, but I can imagine that with very fine perforation wounds, your intestines might be able to heal the damage themselves. Not anywhere near as fast as they seem to indicate, but it might be theoretically possible.
Doesn't really apply to Arya's case but I know of a real world case where a fat guy got stabbed in the abdomen by a knife that was something like 5 inches long. However, he was so fat that the blade was mostly in his fat and only barely made it into the abdominal cavity. Consequently, none of his intestines or other major organs or vessels were damaged, so they basically all they had to do was sew him back up (after they took a look inside). The funny thing is when the paramedics picked him up he was just sitting there upright looking fine, but with a deep stab wound.

For Arya's story they could have made her injuries less severe and it would have made more sense with the exact same story otherwise. The main problem here is that the injuries seem a lot worse than the recuperation suggested.
 
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MontyAC

Diamond Member
Feb 28, 2004
4,123
1
81
A plausible theory is that Arya got healed by drinking from the pool in the House of Black and White, same pool she drank from to get her sight back.

Per a review on Youtube from New Rockstars: The camera showed large droppings of blood leading to the pool and it lingered on the pool. Then when the camera panned towards the faces on the wall, it shows small blood droppings leading to the waif's face.
 

Eug

Lifer
Mar 11, 2000
23,752
1,309
126
A plausible theory is that Arya got healed by drinking from the pool in the House of Black and White, same pool she drank from to get her sight back.

Per a review on Youtube from New Rockstars: The camera showed large droppings of blood leading to the pool and it lingered on the pool. Then when the camera panned towards the faces on the wall, it shows small blood droppings leading to the waif's face.

That doesn't explain how she healed so quickly BEFORE getting to the pool.

She basically got stabbed but a long thin knife multiple times in the abdomen, but then just got her skin sewn up by the actress, slept a while on opium and then was OK enough to defeat the Waif.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
Whats Margaery's play by letting Loras/Cersei stand trial before the seven? Since trial by combat is outlawed, theres no way Loras is going to be acquitted. Has house Tyrell sacrificed Loras to ally with the Sparrows? Maybe they feel that he is a ponce who is dispensable along with Cersei.

The episode 9 preview shows Jon's army getting clobbered by Ramsay. Thats a crap way for Jon to finally meet his end.

Im expecting Knights of the Vale to swoop in and make quick work of Ramsey's army. My only question is what is Littlefinger going to want for doing so?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
Im expecting Knights of the Vale to swoop in and make quick work of Ramsey's army. My only question is what is Littlefinger going to want for doing so?

Considering how the writing has gone with Arya's character this season, I fully expect Littlefinger to help Jon/Sansa win back Winterfell and then promptly retreat back to the Vale and promise to aid them further on with no strings attached re: support of the Vale army, possibly semi-retire as an honest, profitable, brothel owner and perhaps treasury to the kingdom.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
Considering how the writing has gone with Arya's character this season, I fully expect Littlefinger to help Jon/Sansa win back Winterfell and then promptly retreat back to the Vale and promise to aid them further on with no strings attached re: support of the Vale army, possibly semi-retire as an honest, profitable, brothel owner and perhaps treasury to the kingdom.
The problem isn't the show writers. It is GRRM. The guy is a prolific creator of pointless story arcs that ultimately go nowhere. The show creators have to work with that and it can't be easy.

They have to be thinking "why the hell did he do that" about 500 times every season.
 
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JEDI

Lifer
Sep 25, 2001
30,160
3,302
126
Im expecting Knights of the Vale to swoop in and make quick work of Ramsey's army. My only question is what is Littlefinger going to want for doing so?

im also expecting sansa to screw everything up somehow.

maybe her ending is she commits suicide.

btw- still cant believe this whole thing started with Catlin stark kidnapping tyrion.
seems so out of character for her flying off the ledge like that
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
110,810
29,564
146
The problem isn't the show writers. It is GRRM. The guy is a prolific creator of pointless story arcs that ultimately go nowhere. The show creators have to work either that.

That's what I've heard (I'll never read those crappy books) so it makes sense--but in this case Arya's story for the last ~1.5 seasons is already beyond the books, right? Isn't it fair to say that from here on out the plots are more heavily weighted to the show runner's influence?
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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I'm expecting Knights of the Vale to swoop in and make quick work of Ramsey's army. My only question is what is Littlefinger going to want for doing so?
I thought when he met Sansa at the brothel, he told her she should call on them herself? He had already gotten lord asperger's to agree to help her.

Seems like he would want to kick some sparrow ass back at KL. They shut down his best biz, and threatened him. He may see the opportunity to climb that ladder he talks about, a few more rungs, by helping the Lannisters and/or Tyrells.

I am bummed Theon's sister announced they were going to see Danny. It would be much more epic if Theon showed up at Winterfell. He and sis could sneak in with some men, save Rickon, and capture the keep, while Ramsey is directing the battle against Jon. It would not surprise me if Jon plays that gambit using the 62 Mormonts. If they are half as skilled as Jorah, they are elite fighters.

I hope they do not have Arya magically show up in time to help. That would be the Fonzi is wearing his leather jacket while water skiing part of jumping the shark. Jaqen announced she is now no one i.e. graduated? Having her use the faceless men skills to penetrate the Bolton defenses and rescue Rickon would not be cool at this point.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
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That's what I've heard (I'll never read those crappy books) so it makes sense--but in this case Arya's story for the last ~1.5 seasons is already beyond the books, right? Isn't it fair to say that from here on out the plots are more heavily weighted to the show runner's influence?
The way I have heard it: When the show developers met with GRR about making the series, he first off made them
guess who Jon's mother was.
They obviously passed the test, and he has told them how he planned to end the series. So, there is a basic framework from here on out. The caveat is that they can dick up many of the things leading to it.

He is probably paying careful attention to fan reaction to the scripts, so he can flesh out a better story that readers will enjoy more.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
That's what I've heard (I'll never read those crappy books) so it makes sense--but in this case Arya's story for the last ~1.5 seasons is already beyond the books, right? Isn't it fair to say that from here on out the plots are more heavily weighted to the show runner's influence?
Doubt it. Ultimately he told them the direction and where he thought she should go and how long it would take.

They couldn't just rush her back to westeros without developing her a bit more, otherwise the arc would have been even less pointless than it is now.

Look at the whole Dorne thing, or gendry, or the iron born. All kinda pointless.

Look at the whole lannisters vs starks. The entire war died without any major conflict between the two. The two opposing sides haven't even managed to destroy themselves.

He can't end anything.

A lot of good writers come out with a good first couple books and then the suck. Look at Frank Herbert. Dune was awesome and the it just went downhill from there. Now to have his son and the "lost transcripts" (great mcguffin). You'll get the same with Martin unless he finishes it.

They aren't horrible books (got and dune), they just don't live up to the original or the hype. It's too bad since it could be so much more.
 
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CZroe

Lifer
Jun 24, 2001
24,195
856
126
They should've just left Arya out of this season like the left Bran out of the last season.
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
like arya/faceless men

The Arya arc itself isn't pointless. She's now a trained assassin badass and might still possess the ability to change her face at will. That's a big game changer and will hopefully be used as such. It's many of the connect the dots pieces within that arc that don't add up. Her being a Faceless Man is good, all the details about how she became a Faceless Man are where the story went off the rails.


As for GRRM, we don't know which arcs might be meaningful later in the story. Many of the minor characters introduced might be throwaways and some might be critical pieces in the endgame. That's not the point here. The issue many of us have is how completely and catastrophically the writing has imploded now that they're away from the books. It's not that GRRM is introducing new characters and *might* be clogging things up with storylines that go nowhere. It's that the writers are completely trashing the older, important characters whose storylines are definitely going somewhere. They're writing the characters so out of character it would be like having Homer Simpson a dimwitted nuclear powerplant employee in episode 1, a successful neurosurgeon philanthropist in episode 2 and a female golf pro in episode 3. It's all complete bullshit now and that isn't on GRRM. It's the showrunners.
 
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blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,914
2,359
126
I thought when he met Sansa at the brothel, he told her she should call on them herself? He had already gotten lord asperger's to agree to help her.

Seems like he would want to kick some sparrow ass back at KL. They shut down his best biz, and threatened him. He may see the opportunity to climb that ladder he talks about, a few more rungs, by helping the Lannisters and/or Tyrells.

I am bummed Theon's sister announced they were going to see Danny. It would be much more epic if Theon showed up at Winterfell. He and sis could sneak in with some men, save Rickon, and capture the keep, while Ramsey is directing the battle against Jon. It would not surprise me if Jon plays that gambit using the 62 Mormonts. If they are half as skilled as Jorah, they are elite fighters.

I hope they do not have Arya magically show up in time to help. That would be the Fonzi is wearing his leather jacket while water skiing part of jumping the shark. Jaqen announced she is now no one i.e. graduated? Having her use the faceless men skills to penetrate the Bolton defenses and rescue Rickon would not be cool at this point.

I believe Littlefinger promised Sansa directly he would protect her. Her note she wrote has been analyzed all over the web, and indicates she is calling in that favor:

Since everyone is sensitive to spoilers, guess I'll wrap it:

“[…] you promised to protect me,” it reads. “Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise. […] Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are [well/properly] rewarded.”
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
The Arya arc itself isn't pointless. She's now a trained assassin badass and might still possess the ability to change her face at will. That's a big game changer and will hopefully be used as such. It's many of the connect the dots pieces within that arc that don't add up. Her being a Faceless Man is good, all the details about how she became a Faceless Man are where the story went off the rails.


As for GRRM, we don't know which arcs might be meaningful later in the story. Many of the minor characters introduced might be throwaways and some might be critical pieces in the endgame. That's not the point here. The issue many of us have is how completely and catastrophically the writing has imploded now that they're away from the books. It's not that GRRM is introducing new characters and *might* be clogging things up with storylines that go nowhere. It's that the writers are completely trashing the older, important characters whose storylines are definitely going somewhere. They're writing the characters so out of character it would be like having Homer Simpson a dimwitted nuclear powerplant employee in episode 1, a successful neurosurgeon philanthropist in episode 2 and a female golf pro in episode 3. It's all complete bullshit now and that isn't on GRRM. It's the showrunners.

Again, you aren't thinking about this correctly. The problem lies with GRRM, the characters aren't consistent in anything they do.

Could Arya have ever left the Starks? How could she not leave the Faceless men eventually, and how would she have done it without them putting an eternal bounty on her head.

The wounding? They needed to bring her to crisis. The stupidity? Nothing more than a little girl acting like a little girl because that's what she is. She isn't a faceless assassin, she is fallible. The healing properties of milk of the poppy? She could have slept for days, or weeks, for all we know. Time isn't consistent on the show either. Look at Littlefinger traveling from the Vale, or Brienne going all of the way down to Riverrun in a quick time, meanwhile everything else moves fast or just sits around.

Edmure said he has been in the dungeon for years. *years*. How long is that? 5 years? 10 years? We have no concept of that.


This is GRRM's ridiculous timing / story lines / prolific creation of characters and arcs.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,085
663
126
Again, you aren't thinking about this correctly. The problem lies with GRRM, the characters aren't consistent in anything they do.





Could Arya have ever left the Starks? How could she not leave the Faceless men eventually, and how would she have done it without them putting an eternal bounty on her head.





The wounding? They needed to bring her to crisis. The stupidity? Nothing more than a little girl acting like a little girl because that's what she is. She isn't a faceless assassin, she is fallible. The healing properties of milk of the poppy? She could have slept for days, or weeks, for all we know. Time isn't consistent on the show either. Look at Littlefinger traveling from the Vale, or Brienne going all of the way down to Riverrun in a quick time, meanwhile everything else moves fast or just sits around.





Edmure said he has been in the dungeon for years. *years*. How long is that? 5 years? 10 years? We have no concept of that.








This is GRRM's ridiculous timing / story lines / prolific creation of characters and arcs.



? Pretty much all those things are show problems.



Travel time? Book 4 recounts Brienne's travels from kings landing. It is... slow. Boring is another way to describe it.
 

DAPUNISHER

Super Moderator CPU Forum Mod and Elite Member
Super Moderator
Aug 22, 2001
28,827
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I believe Littlefinger promised Sansa directly he would protect her. Her note she wrote has been analyzed all over the web, and indicates she is calling in that favor:

Since everyone is sensitive to spoilers, guess I'll wrap it:

“[…] you promised to protect me,” it reads. “Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise. […] Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are [well/properly] rewarded.”
She wrote Yohn Royce. He told her in season 4 he would protect her.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,770
347
126
That doesn't explain how she healed so quickly BEFORE getting to the pool.

She basically got stabbed but a long thin knife multiple times in the abdomen, but then just got her skin sewn up by the actress, slept a while on opium and then was OK enough to defeat the Waif.

Could it be she didn't get 'healed' so much as there was residual effects from the milk of the poppy so she didn't feel it and she was well bandaged so she didn't bleed out?
 

GagHalfrunt

Lifer
Apr 19, 2001
25,297
2,001
126
Again, you aren't thinking about this correctly. The problem lies with GRRM, the characters aren't consistent in anything they do.

Could Arya have ever left the Starks? How could she not leave the Faceless men eventually, and how would she have done it without them putting an eternal bounty on her head.

The wounding? They needed to bring her to crisis. The stupidity? Nothing more than a little girl acting like a little girl because that's what she is. She isn't a faceless assassin, she is fallible. The healing properties of milk of the poppy? She could have slept for days, or weeks, for all we know. Time isn't consistent on the show either. Look at Littlefinger traveling from the Vale, or Brienne going all of the way down to Riverrun in a quick time, meanwhile everything else moves fast or just sits around.

Edmure said he has been in the dungeon for years. *years*. How long is that? 5 years? 10 years? We have no concept of that.


This is GRRM's ridiculous timing / story lines / prolific creation of characters and arcs.

No, the writing WAS consistent. Of course Arya left the Starks. The Starks were gone, she didn't have a choice. Robb, Rickon and Bran were dead as far as she knew, mom and pop were dead, Sansa was under control of other people, Winterfell was toast. Her entire world was gone and she had a list of people she wanted to take revenge on. So she followed the one path open to her to acquire some power, have a chance to take action on her list and maybe be somebody rather than living in hiding. Her arc made PERFECT sense until she got to the Faceless Men. Then it went all to shit.

The wounding itself isn't the issue. So she needed to be brought to crisis with her back to the wall to find who she wanted to be? Great! Showdown with Waif, injured, escapes, Waif tracks her down, Arya knows she's too injured to beat the Wait straight up and has laid a trap, Waif overconfident blunders, Arya wins. THAT makes sense. That's doable and it checks all the boxes of getting Arya to crisis where she's fighting for her life AND it keeps her in character. But to have her going to ground ready for a do-or-die fight in one episode and to have her out in public unarmed and not watching her back in the next is the dumbest thing the show has ever done. Its maybe the dumbest thing any show has ever done. It's so far out of character and so unrealistic that it would have been just as believable to have her injury caused by a crashing spaceship. It was utter nonsense.

So they're playing with moving characters unrealistically quickly while years pass for others and nothing happens elsewhere. That's just lazy bullshit, but it's forgivable and it's pretty much necessary. The timing GRRM established worked. It's what's changed between books and series that have made the time warps necessary. Some arcs are added and others deleted entirely so that things that would be happening to keep pace in various locations are not happening and causing the distortions. Big deal! I don't give a shit if Edmure is in a dungeon for 6 months or two years. If he goes in as Edmure and come out acting nothing like Edmure THAT is a problem and that's what the writers are doing now. And that is what makes anyone with a shred of common sense scream "BULLSHIT!!!!" at almost every scene.
 
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Triumph

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,031
13
81
I believe Littlefinger promised Sansa directly he would protect her. Her note she wrote has been analyzed all over the web, and indicates she is calling in that favor:

Since everyone is sensitive to spoilers, guess I'll wrap it:

“[…] you promised to protect me,” it reads. “Now you have a chance to fulfill your promise. […] Knights of the Vale are under your command. Ride north for Winterfell. Lend us your aid and I shall see to it that you are [well/properly] rewarded.”

Wasnt the letter really the one she wrote to Riverrun/Tullys?
 

MongGrel

Lifer
Dec 3, 2013
38,751
3,068
121
Considering how the writing has gone with Arya's character this season, I fully expect Littlefinger to help Jon/Sansa win back Winterfell and then promptly retreat back to the Vale and promise to aid them further on with no strings attached re: support of the Vale army, possibly semi-retire as an honest, profitable, brothel owner and perhaps treasury to the kingdom.

I do not think Littlefinger has any plans of heading back to the Vale if he does come to the rescue, unless it is just to bide some time. He has always had a vendetta to "screw them all", to put it politely, and has large ambitions.

Sansa at least would know about things related to him, she all ready pulled his butt out of the fire in the Vale before, and would let John know a thing or two I'd hope.

She is almost the opposite of Cersei, she brighter than she lets on. One of the reasons Tyrion told her long ago she might be one of the few people to survive the mess in KL.

Wasnt the letter really the one she wrote to Riverrun/Tullys?

Brienne was long gone when she wrote the one for the crow, we just do not know where the crow was headed.
 
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Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
I do not think Littlefinger has any plans of heading back to the Vale if he does come to the rescue, unless it is just to bide some time. He has always had a vendetta to "screw them all", to put it politely, and has large ambitions.



Brienne was long gone when she wrote the one for the crow, we just do not know where the crow was headed.

That thing was deciphered a while ago. It was to Little Finger and asking him to get the knights of the vale.
 
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