HBO's Game of Thrones season 6 discussion thread- airing 4/24/16 (No book spoilers)

[GagHalfrunt]

I didn't read the books and I don't recall this detail but why are the Sparrows in King's Landing in the first place? What triggered their presence and actions?

Cersei empowered them. They were just your typical religious fanatics yammering on to a few fellow loonies. Cersei began to lose control of Thommen and saw herself being pushed to the side as Margaery proved to be a good manipulator. The Tyrells had too much power and Cersei quietly prodded the Sparrows to look into Loras boinking dudes and Margaery boinking anything that looked like it might one day wear a crown. The Faith got a taste of power and liked it and the High Sparrow did what religious nuts do, keep the rabble roused by constantly pointing a finger at a new person committing a new sin.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I like the proposed idea that Margery is simply playing the Sparrows against the Lannisters in a ploy to have them destroy each other. She certainly doesn't like dickless Tommen, but knows his weakness. (I don't imagine she hates him--she seems to understand he's a nice kid but, well, still a stupid kid--but has no compunction playing him in this game).

You can tell she isn't into this cultishness, her conversation with Loris and when Tommen came to speak with her. The non-plussed glance she gave over his shoulder. A bit too obvious.

I don't think Mrs James Bond is on on this, though. She legitimately seemed as surprised about this turn of events as everyone else. Besides, she has been denied access to Margery all this time and it's not like there was time to plan any of this before Margery was captured. Her arrest was shocking, unless some truly improbable planning went on between the two prior to that trial, their having expected her to be arrested as well. I mean....come on.

There has to be something more here. The whole Kings Landing story arc has read like a bad play right from the start, there's no way any of this crap would have played out like it did if Cersei, Thommen, Margaery or Olenna were acting in character. Margaery has to be playing some sort of deeper game, probably under the orders of Olenna. She's proven to be adept at fooling men, so she's up to something. But the whole Thommen switcheroo thing is so freaking ridiculous that I don't care anymore. At first the Faith was so bad that they had me rooting for Cersei to wipe them out. Now the Cersei/Tyrell faction is acting so irrationally and Thommen is even worse that I want Zombie Gregor to run amok and kill every single person involved in that story line.

 

[MongGrel]

It was another setup episode.

Arya will face off against the waif, which she is somehow gonna win. Then she will have to face Jaqen. There is no way Jaqen will let Faceless trained loose in the world outside the House of Black & Whites control. There is some twist here I don't yet see.

Dany's scene wasn't fluff. The show probably undersold it, and the timing is crap, but the issue remains from back when Drogo was still around is that the Dothraki won't get on ships and are terrified of the ocean. Dany had to show strength to get them to agree to do something theyve never done before.

I am buying that stealing Heartsbane is a way to get another Valerian sword to the Wall, and hopefully Randall Tarly too.

Benjen /Coldhands is long overdue. They key there is how he was created. That is going to be important to the coming war.

Tommen switching sides makes Kings Landing a clusterf--k. They are going to feud until Dany and/or Dorne destroy them. The throne is the weakest it's ever been. I don't buy the High Sparrow either. He has an ulterior motive to his manipulation. Not sure what yet though. There are those that contend he is Howland Reed though. I disagree. He is too old, IMO.

Autocorrect murdered my post. Too annoyed to fix it. You get the jist.

If Arya does manage to take waif rager out, I'm not sure Jaqen would care much, I'm still suspicious the traveling show is a troupe of traveling Faceless Men/Ninja's.

If Arya would die, that would be another huge WTF moment.

Dany's scene on the dragon just cemented things I thought, besides, we need cool dragon stuff now and again

The whole thing with Benjen probably should have happened before now IMHO also, that was just thrown in there.

Kings Landing is a mess atm, of course, the wife was even ticked off they made her care about the Lannisters much

It kind of has a Henry VIII vibe going atm.

I still want to see what happens when Margaery gets a chance to talk to Grandma in private there. It is skewing all over the place at the moment, of course.

 

[Aikouka]

I have to say... the dinner scene with Sam worked pretty well. It was supposed to come across as uncomfortable, and I felt uncomfortable even watching it. :\ To be clear, I don't think that was a bad thing, but rather that the scene accomplished what it set out to do.

Margaery is playing it great as well I think.

Is she? I would've expected her to be upfront with Tommen if she was. Although, maybe she suspects that Tommen is "too good" to fake it, so she's just playing him too. However, essentially indoctrinating Tommen as a means to get him into her plan is a bit dangerous since you have to then undoctrinate him!

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Is she? I would've expected her to be upfront with Tommen if she was. Although, maybe she suspects that Tommen is "too good" to fake it, so she's just playing him too. However, essentially indoctrinating Tommen as a means to get him into her plan is a bit dangerous since you have to then undoctrinate him!

Let's hope she's playing Thommen. If she's genuine and they're both truly committed to the Faith the King's Landing storyline will suck 1000 times more than it already sucks.

 

[MongGrel]

I have to say... the dinner scene with Sam worked pretty well. It was supposed to come across as uncomfortable, and I felt uncomfortable even watching it. :\ To be clear, I don't think that was a bad thing, but rather that the scene accomplished what it set out to do.



Is she? I would've expected her to be upfront with Tommen if she was. Although, maybe she suspects that Tommen is "too good" to fake it, so she's just playing him too. However, essentially indoctrinating Tommen as a means to get him into her plan is a bit dangerous since you have to then undoctrinate him!

Tommen is pretty naive and being manipulated to begin with, Margaery was always well aware of that of course, why she snuck into his room long ago after her talk with Granny.

"Sir Pounce for King !!!!"

J/K a bit.

I doubt she would really care much if Tommen takes one for the team.

Once Cersei is out of there and if Tommen bites the dust, she is officially the Queen of Kings Landing.

 

[Shlong]

I'm not so sure that show!Benjen is Coldhands. I mean, he's probably taking on some of the same role, but IIRC book!Coldhands was pretty obviously a wight (dead), and from what we've seen of Benjen so far he is not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxwXdWAGm0o One of the show creators called him Coldhand Benjens, looks like they're merging the two characters for the show.

If Arya does manage to take waif rager out, I'm not sure Jaqen would care much, I'm still suspicious the traveling show is a troupe of traveling Faceless Men/Ninja's.

If Arya would die, that would be another huge WTF moment.

Dany's scene on the dragon just cemented things I thought, besides, we need cool dragon stuff now and again

The whole thing with Benjen probably should have happened before now IMHO also, that was just thrown in there.

Kings Landing is a mess atm, of course, the wife was even ticked off they made her care about the Lannisters much

It kind of has a Henry VIII vibe going atm.

I still want to see what happens when Margaery gets a chance to talk to Grandma in private there. It is skewing all over the place at the moment, of course.

Jaqeun probably wants Arya to take out the Waif... since the Waif is the one showing too much emotion and obviously jealous of Arya.

 

[MongGrel]

Jaqeun probably wants Arya to take out the Waif... since the Waif is the one showing too much emotion and obviously jealous of Arya.

I'm thinking along the same lines, personally.

 

[Anubis]

yes im sure its a merge, which is why I mentioned it in the first place. assuming GRRM gets the next book written and it plays out like the show did Coldhands will be the one saving them and not Benjens. as coldhands got them to the cave safely as legendkiller pointed out

 

[Rhezuss]

Jaqeun probably wants Arya to take ...would make sense and I really hope it's that.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Tommen is pretty naive and being manipulated to begin with, Margaery was always well aware of that of course, why she snuck into his room long ago after her talk with Granny.

"Sir Pounce for King !!!!"

J/K a bit.

I doubt she would really care much if Tommen takes one for the team.

Once Cersei is out of there and if Tommen bites the dust, she is officially the Queen of Kings Landing.

I think there's a problem there, that's not how succession works. If Thommen bites the dust before producing an heir Margaery is officially the Queen of Jack Shit. She doesn't keep the throne. She'd be out on her ass and the whole kingdom would erupt in a civil war to choose the next king.

Maybe that's her game. She got out of jail and has control of Thommen through their shared newfound beliefs. If she squeezes out a rugrat THEN it won't matter if Thommen croaked. The kid would inherit the throne and Margaery would be Queen Regent until the kid came of age. That gets Cersei out of the picture and leaves Margaery in control for a long long time. She can play that "children are a gift from god" line on Thommen and screw like rabbits until she gets the heir that secures her own position.

 

[Exophase]

I think there's a problem there, that's not how succession works. If Thommen bites the dust before producing an heir Margaery is officially the Queen of Jack Shit. She doesn't keep the throne. She'd be out on her ass and the whole kingdom would erupt in a civil war to choose the next king.

Maybe that's her game. She got out of jail and has control of Thommen through their shared newfound beliefs. If she squeezes out a rugrat THEN it won't matter if Thommen croaked. The kid would inherit the throne and Margaery would be Queen Regent until the kid came of age. That gets Cersei out of the picture and leaves Margaery in control for a long long time. She can play that "children are a gift from god" line on Thommen and screw like rabbits until she gets the heir that secures her own position.

Margaery and Tommen were already pretty hard at work to produce that heir before she got locked up. She even said Cersei that she could be expecting any time now.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Tommen is pretty naive and being manipulated to begin with, Margaery was always well aware of that of course, why she snuck into his room long ago after her talk with Granny.

"Sir Pounce for King !!!!"

J/K a bit.

I doubt she would really care much if Tommen takes one for the team.

Once Cersei is out of there and if Tommen bites the dust, she is officially the Queen of Kings Landing.

That is how I see it.

I'm still suspicious the traveling show is a troupe of traveling Faceless Men/Ninja's.

A similar thought crossed my mind. But I am only considering the great actress, not the rest. Certainly not genital wart Joffrey.

 

[Perknose]

A Reminder: NO BOOK SPOILERS LIKE ABOUT COLDHANDS, PLEASE.

Perknose
Forum Director

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Margaery and Tommen were already pretty hard at work to produce that heir before she got locked up. She even said Cersei that she could be expecting any time now.

That's one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way on the whole King's Landing arc. Margaery was bragging to her handmaidens that she and Thommen were going at it five times a night. Then she gets arrested and jailed.

You've got a horny teenager with the power of a King, his very own army and his fuckbunny gets taken away. And what does said horny teenager do to get his fuckbunny back? NOTHING!! Does that ring true to anyone?

If I was Thommen's age, had my own army, was banging Margaery five times a day and some evangelist wannabe with no official power or authority took her away, the pile of Jesusfreak bodies would be higher than the walls of Kings Landing two minutes later.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

I think there's a problem there, that's not how succession works. If Thommen bites the dust before producing an heir Margaery is officially the Queen of Jack Shit. She doesn't keep the throne. She'd be out on her ass and the whole kingdom would erupt in a civil war to choose the next king.

Maybe that's her game. She got out of jail and has control of Thommen through their shared newfound beliefs. If she squeezes out a rugrat THEN it won't matter if Thommen croaked. The kid would inherit the throne and Margaery would be Queen Regent until the kid came of age. That gets Cersei out of the picture and leaves Margaery in control for a long long time. She can play that "children are a gift from god" line on Thommen and screw like rabbits until she gets the heir that secures her own position.

I think she could rule as queen if bigger events do not overshadow her suspected power grab. Her dad was sent to negotiate with the iron bank. They have troops in the city now. The Lannisters owe the iron bank a lot of money. The people of the city love Margaery. Her family has the money to secure the iron bank's support. It would work out.

 

[Exophase]

That's one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way on the whole King's Landing arc. Margaery was bragging to her handmaidens that she and Thommen were going at it five times a night. Then she gets arrested and jailed.

You've got a horny teenager with the power of a King, his very own army and his fuckbunny gets taken away. And what does said horny teenager do to get his fuckbunny back? NOTHING!! Does that ring true to anyone?

If I was Thommen's age, had my own army, was banging Margaery five times a day and some evangelist wannabe with no official power or authority took her away, the pile of Jesusfreak bodies would be higher than the walls of Kings Landing two minutes later.

Yes, it rings true to me. First of all, Cersei said she'd take care of the Margaery thing. Obviously she didn't, but Tommen trusted her. Then he tried to approach the High Sparrow, and it quickly became clear that the only way he was going to make anything to happen was to start killing dozens of people. Most likely he'd also lose several of his own men in the process. All to spare his honor and provide more comfort for a couple individuals who were probably going to come out of it fine eventually. I can pretty easily see why a good and naive kid like Tommen would strongly hesitate to do this.

It's also a pretty daunting thing to go up against the organized religion of some medieval society. Even if he wasn't that religious himself it'd carry a ton of weight.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

I think she could rule as queen if bigger events do not overshadow her suspected power grab. Her dad was sent to negotiate with the iron bank. They have troops in the city now. The Lannisters owe the iron bank a lot of money. The people of the city love Margaery. Her family has the money to secure the iron bank's support. It would work out.

The people of the city love Margaery yet sit idly by when she's imprisoned?

This whole series is pretty much about who is going to sit on that throne. They're fighting war after war, making alliance after alliance, splitting off into ever-changing factions, killing hundreds of thousands of soldiers and you honestly think that if Thommen dies they're all going to say "well, not worth fighting about it now, let the girl with absolutely no legitimate claim keep it..."? and it will all work out by a trip to the bank?

Holy crap!! No.

 

[TheAdvocate]

haven't seen any book spoilers. There is really not anything left to spoil. I don't consider backstory spoiler and neither should anyone here. There is no way the show can cover everything.

that whole debate should have pretty much died off. Even the biggest "spoiler" left isn't a book spoiler, its just a fan theory. It should be open season on that as well, but I know we have a few easily offended here, which is ridiculous.

BTW, the "flower people" aren't wusses. The Tyrell army is a little beat up from prior losses, but it has the backing of the richest area in the kingdom. Mace Tyrell is a puffed up moron, but don't let that make you think they aren't experienced, deep in #s and well funded. Between them, Dorne, and the Vale, there are still 3 rather sizable armies left in Westeros.

 

[TheAdvocate]

That's one of the things that rubbed me the wrong way on the whole King's Landing arc. Margaery was bragging to her handmaidens that she and Thommen were going at it five times a night. Then she gets arrested and jailed.

You've got a horny teenager with the power of a King, his very own army and his fuckbunny gets taken away. And what does said horny teenager do to get his fuckbunny back? NOTHING!! Does that ring true to anyone?

If I was Thommen's age, had my own army, was banging Margaery five times a day and some evangelist wannabe with no official power or authority took her away, the pile of Jesusfreak bodies would be higher than the walls of Kings Landing two minutes later.

especially if my bunny looked as hot and was as freaky as Margaery is in bed (remember, she was willing to do a 3 way with Renly and Loras).

This is one of the problems of them aging Tommen up for the show. It would be more believable if he was the same age as he is in the books (still just a little kid).

Also, with Tommen, the show is properly displaying that a weak king is almost as bad as a tyrant putz like Jeoffrey was. Everyone thought Tommen would be a much better ruler, but look at how easily manipulated he is.

 

[Anubis]

hes still only like 16 or 18 in the show, I don't recall what age "name day" was. still young enough to be very stupid. hes also had like zero guidance, Robert didn't teach shit, joffery was a physco and his mom is a moron. tywin was trying to get him set straight and then he got killed

 

[DAPUNISHER]

The people of the city love Margaery yet sit idly by when she's imprisoned?

This whole series is pretty much about who is going to sit on that throne. They're fighting war after war, making alliance after alliance, splitting off into ever-changing factions, killing hundreds of thousands of soldiers and you honestly think that if Thommen dies they're all going to say "well, not worth fighting about it now, let the girl with absolutely no legitimate claim keep it..."? and it will all work out by a trip to the bank?

Holy crap!! No.

Being married to the king is not a legit claim? Honest question, as I do not know how that works in the GoT world.

On the other points though, if she plays it right she can emerge as the good guy and make the high sparrow a scapegoat or martyr. Her family can afford to buy off any serious threat. And I doubt with Jamie and some of their army gone, that the Lannisters could stop the Tyrells from grabbing power.

I do not think the people considered her as being imprisoned. But rather as undergoing spiritual guidance and healing. The masses mostly support the religi-nazis too. That will only augment their love for her if she plays this right.

 

[zinfamous]

haven't seen any book spoilers. There is really not anything left to spoil. I don't consider backstory spoiler and neither should anyone here. There is no way the show can cover everything.

that whole debate should have pretty much died off. Even the biggest "spoiler" left isn't a book spoiler, its just a fan theory. It should be open season on that as well, but I know we have a few easily offended here, which is ridiculous.

not to get into this crap again, but to be fair, no one person gets to decide what is and isn't a spoiler for everyone--especially someone who has the prior knowledge of what is in the books.

Past events that haven't appeared in the show can, indeed, be spoilers. Frankly--if it isn't in the show, then it is irrelevant.

I call the flower people wusses because Mrs James Bond pretty much called them wusses a few seasons ago, what with their wussified motto, especially compared to the badass Stark family motto. How would I know about their past history and great deeds? None of that has been shown and it's only vaguely hinted at. Margery's dad is like a sack of sentient potatoes.

 

[Perknose]

haven't seen any book spoilers. There is really not anything left to spoil. I don't consider backstory spoiler and neither should anyone here. There is no way the show can cover everything.

1. Stick to the show, and ONLY what is in the show.

2. The only legitimate venue to post your opinion on moderator actions is in Moderator Discussions.

Perknose
Forum Director

PS If it needs to be said, don't be dense and reply to this bolded, signed mod comment in this thread or anywhere else but in the MD forum.

 

[MongGrel]

especially if my bunny looked as hot and was as freaky as Margaery is in bed (remember, she was willing to do a 3 way with Renly and Loras).

This is one of the problems of them aging Tommen up for the show. It would be more believable if he was the same age as he is in the books (still just a little kid).

Also, with Tommen, the show is properly displaying that a weak king is almost as bad as a tyrant putz like Jeoffrey was. Everyone thought Tommen would be a much better ruler, but look at how easily manipulated he is.

If I were Tommen and that age and King I definitely would have taken the sparrows out long ago, heh.

The problem with Tommen is he needed more teaching from Tywin, he might have been a more compassionate King than many, but he lacks the knowledge he would have gotten there also in handling some situations.

It's immaterial, I guess he has a worried about miffing off the gods thing going on there.