HBO's Game of Thrones season 6 discussion thread- airing 4/24/16 (No book spoilers)

[Eug]

??

Wiki sez

Calvary, also Golgotha /ˈɡɒlɡəθə/, was, according to the Gospels, a site immediately outside Jerusalem's walls where Jesus was crucified.[1] Golgotha(s) (Greek: Γολγοθᾶ; alternative later form Γολγοθᾶ&#962 is the Greek transcription in the New Testament of an Aramaic term that has traditionally been presumed to be Gûlgaltâ (but see below for an alternative). The Bible translates the term to mean place of [the] skull, which in Greek is Κρανίου Τόπος (Kraníou Tópos), and in Latin is Calvariæ Locus, from which the English word Calvary is derived.

IOW, you spelled "cavalry" wrong.

 

[Homerboy]

Dany does not want to have one of her kingdoms raping, raiding, pillaging the others in general as a lifestyle, but that kind of clashes a bit with the general Dothraki lifestyle also.

I had this discussion the other day. I don't get it. How on earth would a nomadic tribe of 100,000+ live in Westeros if they weren't allowed to pillage and steal? It makes no sense. The Dothraki are the direct opposite of what Danny supports - law/order/fairness for everyone.

Damn it's like Danny is a Socialist. #feelthe(dragonfie)bern







.... I will show myself out, thank you.

 

[Squisher]

And He shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.—Isaiah 2:3–4

 

[Reckoner]

If you're on the Bolton side and all of a sudden you see him motioning the archers to take you out, wouldn't you either run or switch sides at that point in time? Otherwise those were the most loyal troops I've ever witnessed.


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[Childs]

If you're on the Bolton side and all of a sudden you see him motioning the archers to take you out, wouldn't you either run or switch sides at that point in time? Otherwise those were the most loyal troops I've ever witnessed.


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Well, if you desert and Ramsey wins you'll end up flayed. I think the best thing to do is play dead.

 

[blankslate]

Hopefully we get a scene where the White Walkers bring down the wall in this season's finale... but it'll probably be in season 7.

Ramsay being pummeled in the face like a wild dog and fed to literal dogs was pretty awesome.


________

 

[Skel]

davos archers could have picked off a lot of the infantry that went to surround jon.
heck, that infantry's back will be to davos if they were to do continue the surrounding tactic.

if only davos held his position.

Most archers (in the real world) were just people that shot better than others. They aren't marksmen like Ramsey was. The odds of them picking anyone off are the same as them hitting one of Jon's men.

whole episode was kind of meh to me.

#1. why didn't they give the giant a weapon? any weapon? he could have wrecked half the army by himself if he had ~something~ but nope. he was reduced to swiping at spears and getting poked by them

#2. why didn't sansa tell them about littlefinger's army? at the very least told about the raven she sent. that would have let them wait a little while longer to see if he would show up.

#3. most of the wall's defense is now decimated. They might as well abandon the wall b/c the few remaining men won't last against the white walkers. All in all Jon's actions got a lot of people killed.

#4 why didn't Rickon just hide behind some of those burning Xs? or zig zag, something, anything but running in a straight line.

1. Not sure, but I don't recall them once saying the giant or his people were warriors. Odds are he wasn't and wasn't trained in fighting with a weapon. Armor might restrict his movements, not to mention they prob didn't have the armorer on hand to make it. There's also the chance the giant refused it all and fought with what he knew best... pluming people with bear hands. Not the brightest move, but he's a wildling.. they don't really follow conventional warfare.

2. I got the impression that he showed up at the last min. There's also the fact that Littlefinger was one of the people that put her in Ramsey's hands. I'm sure Jon has him on his list of people to have a word with.

3. The wall is no worse off now. Jon only took the Wildlings. The Knight's Watch are still there. Fucked, but not like Jon took everyone but the cook.

4. Panic makes people not think... you look at any area where people are in blind panic and not one will do the smart thing.

ramsay seemed to have more calvary than jon.
ramsay is an idiot for shooting at his own men when he had the advantage.

after the vale knights appeared and crushed ramsay's army, jon and the giant went running towards ramsay.

what happened to ramsay's battalion of archers??

I got the impression that they joined what's his name that had the headbutt war with the Red Headed Wildling. Otherwise, no clue.. they just ran away?

 

[ArenCordial]

whole episode was kind of meh to me.

#2. why didn't sansa tell them about littlefinger's army? at the very least told about the raven she sent. that would have let them wait a little while longer to see if he would show up.

I think its pretty clear at this point that Sansa's learned from Littlefinger's gamemanship and Ramsay's cruelty. Sansa doesn't tell Jon because she doesn't trust him. She's on her own side and while she doesn't want anything bad to happen to him she's only with Jon because he's helping regain Winterfell for HER. If she can get Jon to effectively put a target on his back by acting as commander of her forces where as a bastard he has nothing to gain when they both admit they didn't even like each other as children, whats Rickon a brother Jon actually loved and was loved back going to make him do?

I doubt Sansa really cares for the army which are only a small number of Northerners and a larger group of Wildings, whom she was raised to hate. She really just cares about ending Ramsay and reclaiming Winterfell.

If you don't think she's that cold, just look at her little smirk when walking away from Ramsay.

TLDR; Sansa's playing the game now and Jon's just one of the pieces on the board.

 

[Newbian]

 

[MrSquished]

we were yelling at the tv "WEAVE YOU DUMBASS WEAVE, STICK N MOVE!"

 

[Sonikku]

Snow should ask the witch to raise his bro. Couldn't hurt to try, right?

 

[GagHalfrunt]

whole episode was kind of meh to me.

#1. why didn't they give the giant a weapon? any weapon? he could have wrecked half the army by himself if he had ~something~ but nope. he was reduced to swiping at spears and getting poked by them

#2. why didn't sansa tell them about littlefinger's army? at the very least told about the raven she sent. that would have let them wait a little while longer to see if he would show up.

#3. most of the wall's defense is now decimated. They might as well abandon the wall b/c the few remaining men won't last against the white walkers. All in all Jon's actions got a lot of people killed.

#4 why didn't Rickon just hide behind some of those burning Xs? or zig zag, something, anything but running in a straight line.

1) Because then the fight would have gone differently and there would have been less fake peril and no chance for a last second escape.

2) Because then they would have waited and won and there would have been less fake peril and no chance for a last second escape.

4) Because then he would have gotten away easily and there would have been less fake peril for Jon and no chance for a tragic last second death.


Don't try to reason things out anymore, the show has completely abandoned even trying to have characters act intelligently. It's now 100% people doing things the dumbest way imaginable to create fake dangerous situations so that there can be a miracle right at the very last moment. Things have become such a tired old cliche that the old western standard of the heroes being seconds from death hoping for the cavalry to show up and save them from a hopeless situation has been stolen without even pretending to make it original. GOT heroes are seconds from death and a real honest to god cavalry shows up to save them from a hopeless situation.

It's freaking hilarious what this show does to create tension and get the heroes out of it now. It's like a Saturday morning cartoon, all that's missing is Dudley Dooright riding in to get Nell off the train tracks seconds before the train runs her over. Maybe the show is doing it on purpose to kill GRRM with frustration at watching what they're doing to his books so that someone else can take over the writing and finish the damn series.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

^I knew if I waited long enough someone would chime in with a "I don't like it, see what a fart smeller... err smart feller I is". It's as impressive in its intellectual delinquency as the disrespectful sig and icon.

??

Cavalry are soldiers on horse back; Calvary is where Jesus was crucified for our sins. John Calvin preached, among other things, the "sufficiency of calvary" that is: through faith alone (no works needed) a person can be saved.

I haven't riddled out the entire meaning of the quoted phrase, but I think it has something to do with Jon being resurrected...

It's too bad people thousands of years ago weren't smart enough to run in a zig zag pattern, or the crossbow and bow & arrow would have never caught on as weapons of war.

If they work in real life, I don't think it's too much of a suspension of disbelief to see a bow & arrow work in Game of Thrones.

Further children who've never been trained in running away from archers rarely have such insights; but I thought the same thing.

 

[GagHalfrunt]

Further children who've never been trained in running away from archers rarely have such insights; but I thought the same thing.

A child learns to dodge in any era whether it's in sword fighting or schoolyard games. And a child that was raised in a bubble and never played games like tag or never learned to fight with a sword would still learn to dodge pretty damn quickly when the first arrow missed by inches. I've never been trained to run away from an arrow and I bet you never have either, but I'm sure we'd have no trouble working out the concept of "hey, that's close, maybe move a little..."

And even if said child is the dumbest person in Westeros (and the way GOT writes now, every single character is the dumbest person in Westeros), you think maybe, just maybe, one of the seasoned soldiers might see that only a single person is firing and scream at Rickon to run serpentine?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cC0keDGobck

Oh, wait, they can't, they're also all the dumbest people in Westeros because if any character shows any intelligence for a single freaking second the flimsy writing would fall apart like the house of cards it has become. The eventual winner will be whatever character manages to raise their IQ to 10 because nobody else in that world now would have the brainpower to stop them.

 

[WelshBloke]

If there was any danger of Rickon making it to safety Ramsey would have just ordered a volley fired.

 

[Charmonium]

Don't try to reason things out anymore, the show has completely abandoned even trying to have characters act intelligently. It's now 100% people doing things the dumbest way imaginable to create fake dangerous situations so that there can be a miracle right at the very last moment. Things have become such a tired old cliche that the old western standard of the heroes being seconds from death hoping for the cavalry to show up and save them from a hopeless situation has been stolen without even pretending to make it original. GOT heroes are seconds from death and a real honest to god cavalry shows up to save them from a hopeless situation.

While I still enjoy the show, even I have to admit that the writing seems to disintegrated in recent seasons. I can't give a specific example but I remember having intelligent, speculative discussions with people in the early seasons. The writing created a variety of possibilities and it laid the groundwork for each one pretty thoroughly. So it was really a crap shoot which way they would go. And sometimes they really managed to surprise you. The beheading of Ed Stark and the Red Wedding come to mind.

It doesn't really feel like that any more. It feels more like a paint by numbers, formulaic show. And even when it's not, the waif vs Arya for example, they don't seem to put any real thought into how things play out. It's obvious that they're trying to but they just don't quite make it.

 

[clamum]

Incredible episode. Probably the best and most "realistic" medieval battle scene I've even seen. I think the bodies piling up was a little silly, but the chaos, the noise, the confusion. Just incredible. John almost getting crushes was riveting and brilliant. Ramsay was Ramsay until the bitter end -- everything he did was awesome.

Danny and the dragons was pretty solid too. I thought the meeting between Danny and the Greyjoys was perfectly executed as well. Two strong women realizing they were very similar and respectful of each other. Loved that Yara kept sliding little lesbian comments in there and made Danny blush. They are a going to make a formidable pair and with Theon should be able to join forces with Starks now.

I thought it was silly/too perfect that Davos just happened across the pyre that Shereen was burned on and that her wooden stag survived the fire. I guess he had to find out somehow and this made as much sense as anything. Red witch is a goner I'm sure.

The Vale coming to the rescue was a given. Though did I miss why John didn't even think of asking the Vale for help all along? Was it ever discussed? I mean it's the largest standing army in Westeros and is/was loyal to the Starks (not to mention family) and I don't recall much of any urgency from John to get them to fight with him?

I was really impressed by the episode too. I thought the battle, overall, was spectacular (among the best I've seen on screen).

Spoiler

The very start until they're surrounded by the shield wall, and then Jon getting crushed... goddamn man. Just intense. I bet it would be pretty good on a good home theater system. My heart was actually beating faster when Jon was fighting to not get crushed and breathe and I almost never get that way watching a show. Unlike everyone else, I didn't expect the Vale to swoop in. I thought they were just holed up and Lysa wouldn't let them out. Oh shit. But she died and Littlefinger is Lord there now? Just remembered that.

Spoiler

Ramsey getting poetic justic was glorious. God what a piece of filth. Pretty sure I caught a smile on Sansa's face, just barely, as she exited the frame.

Spoiler

Cool to see the Greyjoys and Daenerys team up. Asha/Yara has a yummy body. MOAR

Overall I thoroughly loved the episode. Definitely gonna watch it again before next week's finale.

 

[brainhulk]

is it plausible Ramsay wouldn't have known about Littlefinger's army and their movements in the area?

hmmm

 

[Humpy]

Yara Greyjoy's ass looks amazing in leather pants.

 

[Skel]

If there was any danger of Rickon making it to safety Ramsey would have just ordered a volley fired.

There's also something to be said that Ramsey was a seasoned hunter and marksman with the bow. Even if Rickon did do some zigs and zags, odds are Ramsey would have still hit him. I still say Rickon was in pure terror mode and his brain was shut off. It's easy to pretend from their couches that everyone would be brilliant, and do the perfect possible thing there is to do, but when the shit hits the fan and panic sets in, most people's higher thinking shuts off. Unless someone trained Rickon to dodge arrows being shot at him while running, there's little chance he'd do anything other than run straight to Jon.

One thing that does bother me about the show is the dogs.

Spoiler

Why did they wait as long as they did? I get the show did it so Sansa could have her speech, but it made no sense that the gates would be opened. The dogs would have attacked any stranger that was putting Ramsey in the kennel. At the least they would have attacked him before Sansa showed up.

 

[Squisher]

While I still enjoy the show, even I have to admit that the writing seems to disintegrated in recent seasons. I can't give a specific example but I remember having intelligent, speculative discussions with people in the early seasons. The writing created a variety of possibilities and it laid the groundwork for each one pretty thoroughly. So it was really a crap shoot which way they would go. And sometimes they really managed to surprise you. The beheading of Ed Stark and the Red Wedding come to mind.

It doesn't really feel like that any more. It feels more like a paint by numbers, formulaic show. And even when it's not, the waif vs Arya for example, they don't seem to put any real thought into how things play out. It's obvious that they're trying to but they just don't quite make it.

It's been said here by others and I have to agree that the show writers with GRRM's framework were much better than they are on their own. The worst part of this is this what we're left with from here on out. I can only hope that HBO hears the complaints and does something about it. The writers obviously need some sort of oversight.

 

[bononos]

Littlefinger managed to play all the right sides again by bringing in the Tully forces at the right moment. He suggested to Cersei to let him mobilize the Tully army to mop up whatever that was left once Stannis fought the Boltons, and name him warden of the north once Winterfell falls in his hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

Jon and Sansa could be in trouble with the new warden of the north.

If there was any danger of Rickon making it to safety Ramsey would have just ordered a volley fired.

Yeah thats what I thought. Rickon was going to be a pincushion either way.

 

[Dr. Zaus]

A child learns to dodge in any era whether it's in sword fighting or schoolyard games. And a child that was raised in a bubble and never played games like tag or never learned to fight with a sword would still learn to dodge pretty damn quickly when the first arrow missed by inches. I've never been trained to run away from an arrow and I bet you never have either, but I'm sure we'd have no trouble working out the concept of "hey, that's close, maybe move a little..."

And even if said child is the dumbest person in Westeros (and the way GOT writes now, every single character is the dumbest person in Westerns).

I never believed the "run zig zag" until I shot my first arrow: why not make yourself a smaller target by running forward? Without understanding what it's like to shoot you can't be sure someone would make those intuitive judgments. Similarly, along the field of battle there was little yelling, yes, but were they really close enough for such communication?

you think maybe, just maybe, one of the seasoned soldiers might see that only a single person is firing and scream at Rickon to run serpentine?

Full sprint a horse and a man can close a distance of 1000+ yards in ~30 seconds.

Ever try to communicate tactics to a panicked 11 year old 10 football fields away?

I can't seem to communicate "dinner time" to a hungry, but mildly distracted, kid 10 feet away.

 

[dr150]

Yara Greyjoy's ass looks amazing in leather pants.

x100000

 

[LegendKiller]

Littlefinger managed to play all the right sides again by bringing in the Tully forces at the right moment. He suggested to Cersei to let him mobilize the Tully army to mop up whatever that was left once Stannis fought the Boltons, and name him warden of the north once Winterfell falls in his hands.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lcx8gAM6wM

Jon and Sansa could be in trouble with the new warden of the north.




Yeah thats what I thought. Rickon was going to be a pincushion either way.

I highly doubt robert arryn would keep the vale army in the north. Even with as easy as it is to manipulate him. Otherwise littlefinger has no way of holding it.