HD camcorder - HF100 vs. ??

[amheck]

Hey guys,

I'm looking for an upgrade to my Sony TRV22 MiniDV camcorder. I would prefer something that's half decent in low light, has a pretty good wide angle, is small, and that's $400-$500. Is that too much to ask?

I've seen good reviews and comments on the Canon HF100. What would be the recommended model next-step down pricewise, as well as the next step up? Just trying to find some good camcorders to compare with, so that I make a good, informed decision.

Anything announced at CES that really looks good? Looks like the new entry-level Sony HD cameras have a list of around $599, so maybe they'll street for $500. Worth a look?

And, I almost hate to ask, but is this for $199 even worth considering?
Sony Webbie HD
Side question, would the Webbie HD be a good upgrade to the mino HD? Bought one for Christmas for someone and I saw some video and it seemed to be pretty shakey. Wondering if the sony would be better at that.

Thanks!
Aaron

 

[twistedlogic]

Originally posted by: amheck
I would prefer something that's half decent in low light, has a pretty good wide angle, is small, and that's $400-$500. Is that too much to ask?

Low light is a big problem. Any Camcorder that is digital is more than likely using a small sensor like most P&S use. They can do alright in low light, but the gain used will cause a lot of noise.

And how wide is "wide enough" for you? My camcorder starts at 6.1mm (not sure 35mm equivalent is), and I'm looking at buying a 0.7x wide angle converter.

I'm not much into camcorders, so lets see Kaido's response,

 

[amheck]

Thanks for the reply. re: low light - I'm not looking to shoot in the dark, although Sony's nighshot really does help if you have to. When I was just going thru all my tapes, however, I did notice a lot of shots in dim rooms and the video was fairly grainy. Not looking for perfection, just want it as good as possible, for the price, i guess.

re: wide angle. Here's the specs on my current camcorder.
The F range is 1.7 to 2.2, and the focal range is 3.3 - 33 mm
I just know there were quite a few times when I wish I could go a little wider. Most of my shots are of the kids and family, so depending on where we are or which room we are in, just easy to zoom it out a little rather than back myself into a corner to shoot.

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: twistedlogic
I'm not much into camcorders, so lets see Kaido's response,

lol call in the calvary

First, all video that isn't on a tripod will be shaky, period. Most newer cameras have some sort of image stabilization system, but it will never beat a tripod.

Second, the Canon HF100 is fantastic. It's a "real" camera, unlike the low-end (but nice) models like the Mino. The only thing better at that pricerange would be the Canon HV30, but that's tape-based (but would probably have better low-light performance). You can get a wide-angle lens for either of those; I have a cheapo $30 Merkury from Amazon that does quite well.

Third, you may consider the Creative Vado. It's a pretty neat little camcorder for around $229. It has a nice built-in wide-angle lens vs. the Mino. Here's the Vado: (click 'watch in high quality')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dr5iXO1pD4E

vs. the Mino HD: (click 'watch in high quality')

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsydBfIkZy0

I haven't heard too much about the Webbie HD, but it would be worth comparing for this $200-ish price range. I watched some sample clips on Youtube and it looks pretty nice for the price!

Summary:

1. Best quality for under $600: tape-based Canon HV30
2. Best digital camcorder for under $600: SDHC-based Canon HF100
3. Best $200-ish camcorder with wide-angle lens: Creative Vado HD
4. Best $200-ish camcorder: Sony Webbie HD

The Vado vs. the Webbie is very interesting given the price range. The Vado is a pocket wide-angle cam while the Webbie tries to be a 'real' camcorder with zoom and standard size & functions of a higher-end consumer camcorder. So those are pretty neat options.

 

[amheck]

Thanks for the info everyone. For me, I think I'll end up with something like the HF100.

I'll talk to my father-in-law and see what he thinks of the minohd and if the shakiness bothers him. If it doesn't then I'll just let it me and shop for myself. That little Sony does look interesting. I haven't found out too much about them, though.

On a side note, assuming I get the HF100, I've read (I think in one of the HF100 deal threads) that you need professional software to capture and decode this new video? Is that correct? What's some examples of good, entry level software?

 

[amheck]

Answered my own question on the software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Editing

 

[Kaido]

Originally posted by: amheck
Answered my own question on the software.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD#Editing

Yup, in a nutshell: the camera records to AVCHD, which is a recording format, but not a very good editing format (requires LOTS of computer horsepower). Simple fix: transcode it into a different format. The app I always recommend is the $35 VoltaicHD converter, which has a que feature for batch conversion and lots of settings:

http://www.shedworx.com/volmac-home

Pop your card in, let it convert, and then edit to your heart's content. I recommend Sony Vegas for PC. The one thing you will always want to do to your footage is Color Correct it, which is kind of like Photoshopping a picture for better colors. The easiest way to do that is to use Magic Bullets Looks, which is basically a 1-click app for applying Color Correction presets:

http://www.redgiantsoftware.co...ll/magic-bullet-looks/

Audio is also a big big big part of video. If you have the extra budget, pick up a Rode VideoMic ($150). It's a fabulous shotgun mic that will give you really good audio. Here is basically what I recommed for an HF100 Kit:

1. Canon HF100 (under $600)
2. 8GB or 16GB Class 6 SDHC cards (get at least 2)
3. Spare Battery (I like the eBay knockoffs that include the car charger and A/C charger)
4. Tripod (Velbon DV-7000, Gorillapod, or Red Pod [bean bag tripod, very convenient])
5. UV lens (protects the camera lens from any damage, fingerprints, and dust, under $10)
6. Card Reader for the SDHC cards
7. Padded MiniDV bag to put everything in without scratching

So basically the camera, some memory cards, a spare battery, a lens protector, and a bag to put it all in, plus a card reader for your computer and some kind of tripod to help you get steady shots. The nice thing, you'll never have to buy any accessories again if you don't want to. There's no tape to buy! The batteries usually last a couple of years and the eBay knockoffs work great and are cheap to replace. 1TB hard drives go for around $99 nowadays, so it's affordable to have a ton of space for storing and editing projects.

 

[Ghouler]

Digital cameras can handle low light pretty well, the biggest difficulty is when you move from a high light to a low light situation. Vado HD seems to handle this pretty well, compare:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_0VBbGJrsgc

No experience with HF100 but canon folks tend to know what they are doing in regard to image processing