HD4670 reviews

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Azn
Considering GSO can be easily overclocked to 8800gt speeds I think they are a better value.

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...eForce_8800_GS/25.html

The most amazing fact is the overclocking potential of this card. We saw overclocks of 27% on the core and 30% on the memory, matching the GeForce 8800 GT's performance.

Check out the hot section you can snatch a EVGA 9600gso for $50 after rebate.

Nope, it does not overclock to 8800GT speeds. Because then I would have bought it instead of the 9800GT 30 minutes ago.

Heh I have the EVGA 8800gs model exact same card as EVGA 9600GSO model except for the dual slot cooler overclocked to 741/1782/1058. Good enough to match 8800gt.

$50 after rebate is a steal.

That link is an 8800GS, not the 9600GSO.

They may be the same card, but you can't tell me that you can guarantee there's no difference between the two that may affect overclocking, which brings me to my next point.

Overclocking is never guaranteed, ever. Otherwise they'd sell the card at that speed. It's a crapshoot from card to card.

Somewhat off-topic, but I also don't understand why reviewers don't OC the competition when comparing oc'd cards, otherwise it's just apples to oranges.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Azn
Considering GSO can be easily overclocked to 8800gt speeds I think they are a better value.

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...eForce_8800_GS/25.html

The most amazing fact is the overclocking potential of this card. We saw overclocks of 27% on the core and 30% on the memory, matching the GeForce 8800 GT's performance.

Check out the hot section you can snatch a EVGA 9600gso for $50 after rebate.

Nope, it does not overclock to 8800GT speeds. Because then I would have bought it instead of the 9800GT 30 minutes ago.

Heh I have the EVGA 8800gs model exact same card as EVGA 9600GSO model except for the dual slot cooler overclocked to 741/1782/1058. Good enough to match 8800gt.

$50 after rebate is a steal.

That link is an 8800GS, not the 9600GSO.

They may be the same card, but you can't tell me that you can guarantee there's no difference between the two that may affect overclocking, which brings me to my next point.

Overclocking is never guaranteed, ever. Otherwise they'd sell the card at that speed. It's a crapshoot from card to card.

I have yet to see a decent 9600GT/GSO head to head comparison, but the GT has acres more memory bandwidth (and also overclocks very well, both mem and core).

I also don't understand why reviewers don't OC the competition when comparing oc'd cards, otherwise it's just apples to oranges.

It's the exact same card with 1ns memory. Same brand too. Just relabeled to 9600gso with better cooler minus life time warranty.

Then again these GS/GSO cards are underclocked on purpose to make way for 9600gt and not get close to 8800gt performance by Nvidia at the time. Just ask any of the 8800gs and 9600gso owners and see what average overclocks they are getting. You'll be quite surprised to see over 25+ % more overclocking head room instead of the typical 10%.

Here's one including the new 4670, 3870, 3850, 9600gt, stock 8800gs, 9600gso 680m factory overclocked.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...radeon-hd-4670-512mb/6

9600gso factory overclocked is the fastest card of the bunch.

 

[dug777]

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Azn
Considering GSO can be easily overclocked to 8800gt speeds I think they are a better value.

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...eForce_8800_GS/25.html

The most amazing fact is the overclocking potential of this card. We saw overclocks of 27% on the core and 30% on the memory, matching the GeForce 8800 GT's performance.

Check out the hot section you can snatch a EVGA 9600gso for $50 after rebate.

Nope, it does not overclock to 8800GT speeds. Because then I would have bought it instead of the 9800GT 30 minutes ago.

Heh I have the EVGA 8800gs model exact same card as EVGA 9600GSO model except for the dual slot cooler overclocked to 741/1782/1058. Good enough to match 8800gt.

$50 after rebate is a steal.

That link is an 8800GS, not the 9600GSO.

They may be the same card, but you can't tell me that you can guarantee there's no difference between the two that may affect overclocking, which brings me to my next point.

Overclocking is never guaranteed, ever. Otherwise they'd sell the card at that speed. It's a crapshoot from card to card.

I have yet to see a decent 9600GT/GSO head to head comparison, but the GT has acres more memory bandwidth (and also overclocks very well, both mem and core).

I also don't understand why reviewers don't OC the competition when comparing oc'd cards, otherwise it's just apples to oranges.

It's the exact same card with 1ns memory. Same brand too. Just relabeled to 9600gso minus life time warranty.

Then again these GS/GSO cards are underclocked on purpose way for 9600gt and not get close to 8800gt performance by Nvidia. Just ask any of the 8800gs and 9600gso owners and see what average overclocks they are getting. You'll be quite surprised to see over 25+ % more overclocking head room.

Here's one including the new 4670, 3870, 3850, 9600gt, stock 8800gs, 9600gso 680m factory overclocked.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...radeon-hd-4670-512mb/6

9600gso factory overclocked is the fastest card of the bunch.

Interesting review thanks :beer:

Having cast around for 9600GT reviews around 25% overclocking headroom looks pretty average too, and even in that review with the stock GT as soon as you turn on AA it immediately closes the gap or turns it around.

Your point stands of course, the GSO is very good value.

 

[Cookie Monster]

Its interesting to note the price cuts on 9600GT/GSO and 9500GT class products.

9600GT at $99 puts quite abit of pressure on the HD4670.

 

[AzN]

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: dug777

Originally posted by: Azn

Originally posted by: soccerballtux

Originally posted by: Azn
Considering GSO can be easily overclocked to 8800gt speeds I think they are a better value.

http://www.techpowerup.com/rev...eForce_8800_GS/25.html

The most amazing fact is the overclocking potential of this card. We saw overclocks of 27% on the core and 30% on the memory, matching the GeForce 8800 GT's performance.

Check out the hot section you can snatch a EVGA 9600gso for $50 after rebate.

Nope, it does not overclock to 8800GT speeds. Because then I would have bought it instead of the 9800GT 30 minutes ago.

Heh I have the EVGA 8800gs model exact same card as EVGA 9600GSO model except for the dual slot cooler overclocked to 741/1782/1058. Good enough to match 8800gt.

$50 after rebate is a steal.

That link is an 8800GS, not the 9600GSO.

They may be the same card, but you can't tell me that you can guarantee there's no difference between the two that may affect overclocking, which brings me to my next point.

Overclocking is never guaranteed, ever. Otherwise they'd sell the card at that speed. It's a crapshoot from card to card.

I have yet to see a decent 9600GT/GSO head to head comparison, but the GT has acres more memory bandwidth (and also overclocks very well, both mem and core).

I also don't understand why reviewers don't OC the competition when comparing oc'd cards, otherwise it's just apples to oranges.

It's the exact same card with 1ns memory. Same brand too. Just relabeled to 9600gso minus life time warranty.

Then again these GS/GSO cards are underclocked on purpose way for 9600gt and not get close to 8800gt performance by Nvidia. Just ask any of the 8800gs and 9600gso owners and see what average overclocks they are getting. You'll be quite surprised to see over 25+ % more overclocking head room.

Here's one including the new 4670, 3870, 3850, 9600gt, stock 8800gs, 9600gso 680m factory overclocked.

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardwa...radeon-hd-4670-512mb/6

9600gso factory overclocked is the fastest card of the bunch.

Interesting review thanks :beer:

Having cast around for 9600GT reviews around 25% overclocking headroom looks pretty average too, and even in that review with the stock GT as soon as you turn on AA it immediately closes the gap or turns it around.

Your point stands of course, the GSO is very good value.

Not all games but yeah the bandwidth plays vital role when it comes to AA. You can see the raw performance though. 9600gt falls behind. Crysis particularly by 20%.

For a 9600gt to have 25% overclock....

Core has to be 800+mhz
Shader has to be over 2000mhz
memory has to be 1125mhz

That's not your typical 9600gt overclock from a stock version from what's going around the forum. When I put up a number 25% overclock for GSO I'm being very conservative as you can tell my overclocks are more than 30%. This all on stock cooling too.

Here's a post here at anandtech about what kind of clocks people were getting with their 8800gs. Many people hitting nearly 30% overclocks.

http://forums.anandtech.com/me...id=31&threadid=2161111

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: nosfe
is it just me or does that cooler on the sapphire board look weaker than the stock one?

that is the stock cooler.

 

[nosfe]

sapphire's card
http://www.anandtech.com/GalleryImage.aspx?id=3859

stock card
http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=14911

 

[toyota]

Originally posted by: nosfe
sapphire's card
http://www.anandtech.com/GalleryImage.aspx?id=3859

stock card
http://www.guru3d.com/imageview.php?image=14911

well they look about the same size but the stock one seems to be covering the memory better from what I can tell. other than that I would get the powercolor or msi ones since they come with much better coolers.

 

[nosfe]

i'm guessing that the stock one is made of copper while the sapphire one looks like aluminum(they usually don't spray copper on stock heatsinks to make them look like they're made of copper)

 

[Engineer]

Originally posted by: dug777

That link is an 8800GS, not the 9600GSO.

They may be the same card

They are the same card.

But you're right, this card may or may not be as good as the one linked. That said, it's time for me to let this thread get back to HD4670 reviews. We can start a 9600GSO thread if needed!

 

[evolucion8]

Originally posted by: RussianSensation

Originally posted by: Azn
I've been saying this again and again and you can quote me from last year with arguments with BFG or Chizow. Texture fillrate is the most important element when it comes to performance today. Just look at this 8 ROP card with 128bit bus performing competitive with 16ROP 256bit bus cards.

I respectfully disagree with this assessment. Here are some things to consider:

1. Performance between 3850 and 4670:

Despite very near GPU clock speeds, HD3850 which has 16 ROPs and 256bit bus isn't significantly faster by any stretch than a HD4670 which has 8 ROPs and 128bit bus.

Just 1 Example

Also, consider that some games are more texture heavy while others are more shader heavy. This alone implies that your statement is only true if the card is seriously deficient in texture performance, while excelling in all other areas, and the game is more texture heavy.

For example, in a game like Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter 2, 4670 gets rapped despite having superior texture fill-rate to a 9600GT!

2. Not all texture units are created equal:

Not only does 4670 have 2x the # of texture units of 3850 (32 vs. 16), but each of those texture units delivers up to two times the texture cache bandwidth of 3850's texture unit. In other words the texture units have become more complex. But 4670 still cannot pull away from 3850 in COD4!

3. Not all ROPs are created equal:

3850 with 16 ROPs is nowhere as efficient as 4670 with 8 ROPs. This is so because ATI tweaked the ROPs in RV730 to provide double the AA fillrate for 32-bit and 64-bit color as well as double the peak rate for depth/stencil operations. This is why the 32GB/sec bandwidth on the 4670 doesn't translate into 80% lower performance compared to 3850's 57.6GB/sec bandwidth. If this wasn't the case, no amount of texture boosting would help 4670 overcome its memory bandwidth limitation. AA performance was a major improvement in the 4xxx architecture.

Basically, part of 4670's performance comes from improved texture performance, but another part has to do with other factors. You can't conclude with certainty which of these improvements brought the most value.

All that you said is pretty much the truth. Even though the HD 4670 architecture has a much more powerful texture units and tweaked ROP's which gives you high levels of Anti Aliasing in hardware and little impact in performance, it's crippled Bus width, low ROP's amount and other factors that we don't know (May be smaller texture cache, or unified/data cache) doesn't make the perfect replacement of the HD 3850 which is faster overall in most games by a small but consistent margin. Considering that the HD 3850 does anti aliasing on shaders (Using a fast decompression data path), has a weaker texture unit, and has a lower core speed, it manages to pull away, not bad. But for the price, the HD 4670 offers outstanding value and performance, specially with it's UVD2 which gives you the Picture in Picture feature on BluRay.

Textures is not the most important feature in performance, the HD 3870 with half of the texture performance of the 8800GT, is slighly slower than the 8800GT and sometimes manages to outperform it, specially when 8x FSAA and ultra high resolutions is used (Even though both are pretty much unplayable in such resolutions in some games).

 

[nerp]

Dang, stock on these is pretty low. I hope to see lots of variations, maybe some passively cooled ones, lower prices. Couple weeks to a month maybe. I think this is totally the card for me.

 

[slash196]

Just got mine in today, got the HIS with the ICEQ cooler because noise was my main concern, I can verify that it's quiet as a tomb and shames my 6800GT (no surprises there).

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The external power thing isn't a big deal for us, but as stated it'll be great for OEM's and OEM PC upgrades.

And for those that run their rigs 24/7...

 

[nerp]

Originally posted by: solofly

Originally posted by: SlowSpyder
The external power thing isn't a big deal for us, but as stated it'll be great for OEM's and OEM PC upgrades.

And for those that run their rigs 24/7...

I like the fact that it will use less power than my X1950Pro and destroy it in performance all around. Not only that, I can keep chugging away with my Antec Earthwatts 380 PSU. I get off on running the 380 PSU with my stuff. My #1, 3 and 4 machines all have it. Each has a number of HDs in it, etc. More than enough power.

 

[solofly]

Originally posted by: slash196
Just got mine in today, got the HIS with the ICEQ cooler because noise was my main concern, I can verify that it's quiet as a tomb and shames my 6800GT (no surprises there).

I bought the same one... Where did you get yours and how much did you pay...

http://www.ncixus.com/products/33141/H467QS512P/HIS/