HDD utilities?

[kapoww]

Tomorrow I'm getting the rest of my C2D stuff and I'm going to have to reformat my Raptor. Is there anything better than the one in the Windows setup? I'm not sure if all reformats are the same, maybe there still some left over junk that's too technical for my understanding :thumbsup:

 

[lxskllr]

Nah, just use Windows. I generally use slow format, so it can mark bad sectors and not use them. The extra time isn't that big a deal.

 

[Nothinman]

No, creating a filesystem is exactly the same no matter what utility is used. If every utility created it differently Windows would have to understand them all.

 

[kapoww]

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

 

[mad0maxx]

What it sounds like to me is you are asking if their is a difference between the programs out there that delete / format a hard disk drive versus the one that comes with the windows setup program.

The answer to that question is "YES".

The difference is that windows uses a low level formater thus taking a bit longer than quick format thus the third party software (depending on which you choose) will also use a low level formater. Though for security reasons you would use a third party software to format your hard disk drive to securely erase all reminents of a file still on your hard disk drive. The reason I say that is if a file was deleted does not mean you still can not recover the file with specialized software. With third party software low level formatters using the DOD compliance for security may go 5 - 30 time's formatting depending on the type of format you have choosen.

Hope this clears things up

 

[Modelworks]

On the subject of data recovery.
I recall reading a article by someone in the governement about recovering data from hard drives and they said one of the things most people do not do, that really makes it hard to recover data, is defrag .

Apparrently defragmenting the hard drive plays havok with file recovery.
Now that I think about it, I guess it would since it relocates a lot of stuff.


My brother buys a lot of computer surplus from schools and the governement and they always are missing the hard drives. Guy at the marine base pointed to a bin, they shred the drives into little bits, then its all melted down.

 

[Nothinman]

The difference is that windows uses a low level formater thus taking a bit longer than quick format thus the third party software (depending on which you choose) will also use a low level formater.

That's not true at all. First, it's pretty much impossible to do a real low level format of a drive at home these days. And second the only difference between a quick and full format is a bad blocks check.

 

[martensite]

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Apparrently defragmenting the hard drive plays havok with file recovery.
Now that I think about it, I guess it would since it relocates a lot of stuff.

IIRC, defragging encrypted volumes is not a good idea. I am not 100% sure, but I think the Truecrypt user guide asks that truecrypt volumes not be defragged.

For normal partitions, I dont think defragging should be a problem. But whether most of the defrag utilities actually work well is still not clear.

I usually stick to Diskeeper which does a damn good job, particularly with its on-the-fly defrag and scheduler functions. I have used Buzzsaw (freeware..check the free software thread), and O&O, and both were pretty much useless.

 

[lxskllr]

It's been my experience that 3rd party defraggers are just snake oil. I've used a bunch of them, and none gave me any discernible improvement over Windows built in utility.

 

[martensite]

Originally posted by: lxskllr
It's been my experience that 3rd party defraggers are just snake oil. I've used a bunch of them, and none gave me any discernible improvement over Windows built in utility.

The built-in windows utility is rubbish; it never seems to fully defrag the drive for me, and whats worse, I can't defrag multiple drives at the same time, or schedule it for a late-night defrag when I am not using the system. I have got noticeable improvements in performance, especially for boot up and loading large files after a proper defrag with diskeeper. (say after a few days of heavy Photoshop use).

 

[Nothinman]

IIRC, defragging encrypted volumes is not a good idea. I am not 100% sure, but I think the Truecrypt user guide asks that truecrypt volumes not be defragged.

If that's true then I wouldn't trust TrueCrypt volumes with any data that I actually want to keep.

The built-in windows utility is rubbish; it never seems to fully defrag the drive for me, and whats worse, I can't defrag multiple drives at the same time, or schedule it for a late-night defrag when I am not using the system. I have got noticeable improvements in performance, especially for boot up and loading large files after a proper defrag with diskeeper. (say after a few days of heavy Photoshop use).

Once you figure out how to work the Windows task scheduler and the cli portion of the built in defrag tool you can have it run whenever you want on as many drives as you want AFAIK.

 

[stimpyman77]

Originally posted by: martensite

Originally posted by: Modelworks

Apparrently defragmenting the hard drive plays havok with file recovery.
Now that I think about it, I guess it would since it relocates a lot of stuff.

IIRC, defragging encrypted volumes is not a good idea. I am not 100% sure, but I think the Truecrypt user guide asks that truecrypt volumes not be defragged.

For normal partitions, I dont think defragging should be a problem. But whether most of the defrag utilities actually work well is still not clear.

I usually stick to Diskeeper which does a damn good job, particularly with its on-the-fly defrag and scheduler functions. I have used Buzzsaw (freeware..check the free software thread), and O&O, and both were pretty much useless.

Just an FYI for all..

Q: Can I use tools like chkdsk, Disk Defragmenter, etc. on the contents of a mounted TrueCrypt volume?

A: Yes, TrueCrypt volumes behave like real physical disk devices, so it is possible to use any filesystem checking/repairing/defragmenting tools on the contents of a mounted TrueCrypt volume.

Taken from TrueCrypt.org site FAQ. Which can be read here.

 

[martensite]

Stimpyman, thanks for the info.

I just briefly looked through the user guide again, and this what it says:

Defragmenting

When you defragment the file system in which you store a file-hosted TrueCrypt container, a copy of the TrueCrypt container (or of its fragment) may remain in the free space on the host volume (in the defragmented file system). This may have various security implications. For example, if you change the volume password/keyfile(s) afterwards, and an adversary finds the old copy or fragment (the old header) of the TrueCrypt volume, he might use it to mount the volume using an old compromised password (and/or using compromised keyfiles that were necessary to mount the volume before the volume header was re-encrypted). To prevent this, do one of the following things:
? Use a partition/device-hosted TrueCrypt volume instead of file-hosted.
? Securely erase free space on the host volume (in the defragmented file system) after
defragmenting.
? Do not defragment file systems in which you store TrueCrypt volumes.

So, it looks like the warning against defragging a truecrypt volume arises from potential security implications, and not from danger of actually messing up the files from the defrag. A similar warning is applied for hidden truecrypt volumes.

I stand corrected.

On the subject of data recovery.
I recall reading a article by someone in the governement about recovering data from hard drives and they said one of the things most people do not do, that really makes it hard to recover data, is defrag .

Sorry for beating a dead horse, but incidentally, I chanced upon an article ( dont have the link now...I am pretty sure it was in one of the online magazine websites. will post the link if I find it) which said that defragging a drive regularly increases the chances of file recovery if the defrag was done before the HDD crash/delete. However, defragging the drive after erasure of the files is a recipe for disaster. I'd guess that makes sense.


Nothingman, thanks for the idea..will google for more on it. Does it actually defrag multiple drives simultaneously & the MFT and is it as fast as DK?

 

[Nothinman]

Nothinman[sic], thanks for the idea..will google for more on it. Does it actually defrag multiple drives simultaneously & the MFT and is it as fast as DK?

I really don't know, defrag tools are mostly snake oil so I don't pay much attention to them.

 

[MikeShunt]

download the CD image from here and burn:
http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/

boot off that CD and you have a mass of freeware formatters, disk erasors (really secure) defraggers, disk cloners, etc.... plus a lod of other tools

 

[Archman]

Is there any way to format multiple drives at once?

 

[Nothinman]

Is there any way to format multiple drives at once?

Sure, any multitasking OS should let you do that.

 

[Archman]

How the heck would you do that in Windows XP? I am trying to actually format several thumbdrives at once... I have 1500 that need to be reformatted. I am getting a little tired of formatting one at a time tho

 

[Nothinman]

Plug in as many as possible and run multiple instances of "format X:" is the simplest solution.

 

[Archman]

Originally posted by: Nothinman
Plug in as many as possible and run multiple instances of "format X:" is the simplest solution.

Using the CMD window? I am not familiar with running multiple instances of "format: X", could you clarify that procedure please, and thank you

 

[Nothinman]

Using the CMD window? I am not familiar with running multiple instances of "format: X", could you clarify that procedure please, and thank you

Yea, open as many cmd windows as you want and run "format X: /FS:FAT" in each one replacing X with the appropriate drive letter. But with thumb drives they should only take a few seconds to format so you probably won't gain much doing it like that.

 

[Archman]

I was fortunate enough to find someone wrote an *.exe script that will allow me to erase drives F: - P: in my case... so I just run it once!

Thank you for the help and taking the time :thumbsup: