Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
No, I have a working sample, in which I can use.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
He said he "saw a working sample".
As for performance, Rollo, I guess you missed it:
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r520/index.php?p=21
Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
No, I have a working sample, in which I can use.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
He said he "saw a working sample".
As for performance, Rollo, I guess you missed it:
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r520/index.php?p=21
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ackmed:
CGW, ExtremeTech, The Tech Report, HardOCp, and Rage3d all say the X1800XT is loud, and/or louder than the GTXs.
Funny how B3d seems to be the only one saying it isn't? (besides you, of course)
Originally posted by: Rollo
If I were Dave and getting alpha hardware and news 6 months in advance from ATI I'd probably post things like "The 6800U 2slot, the 7800GTX single slot, and the 7800GTX Quadro cooled all have exactly the same dB output!" as well.
Originally posted by: Rollo
I take Dave with a grain of salt. There is good info with the bad on his site, if he had no bias he'd be a stellar reviewer.
I suppose we all have some.
You need to check the dictionary definition of "learn"You should start "Rollo listening" BFG, you might learn something!
It wasn't available in your 1.2 patch thread yet you had no problems posting results there when it was to the benefit of your parent company.The patch is unavailable.
That's my point: why would an nV fanboy trash his own company? He wouldn't. Again that's my exact point.Why would I?
Much like nVidia's AA-less HDR that was unplayable on NV4x cards and soft shadows that are still unplayable, yet that didn't stop you proclaiming the death of ATi.(unless you count the Serious Sam2 with serious render errors that is unplayable even at 10X7 2X?)
Uh, no. Those fourteen cards had identical tech as did your "sweet SLI sets". It's a comical farce that you even attempt to justify this blatant double standard.Those had new tech, and were well worth buying, eight of them were sweet SLI sets!
You weren't saying that when you were slamming the X1800's cooling solution, even despite your SLI setup likely matching or exceeding its noise.I've always said noise isn't a big hot button to me,
And how long it take nVidia to enable PureVideo Rollo? Nine months was it? I don't recall you ever pointing this out for people to "make good video card buying choices". In fact you downplayed the whole issue.Helping people make good video card buying choices by pointing out EXR HDR +AA does not exist for ATI retail customers, a WHOLE TWO MONTHS after release of the cards?
We can. You can't because you're biased beyond belief.Yep, we sure can.
Your comment right back at ya:Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: M0RPH
So we have confirmation that it works as long as the game supports it.
Only question left is, why would you buy a video card that makes you choose between HDR and AA if you can have them both?
Where is this confirmation?
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And may I suggest this: http://www.pa.com/index.jsp
And address this: "clearly Dave has pointed out HDR+AA works"
Q F TOriginally posted by: Pete
So far we have Dave and Damien with numbers and Dave and Rys with screenshots. You think all three are covering for ATI?
If you amended your thread title to "HDR+AA not working on any games yet" rather than "on X1800XTs," you wouldn't have seen the preditable responses to your predictable leaning. Do you honestly think ATI could get away with touting a feature they don't have? Fudging on full trilinear in screenshots is one thing, but it's pretty hard to miss AA in a still screenshot.
As for HDR+AA performance or the HDR errors in SS2, I really don't know enough to comment, but it's obviously disappointing that these features aren't working (and without errors) from launch. Then again, was Far Cry sporting HDR this soon after the 6800 launched? Meaning, how long have developers had with an X1000-series card to enable AA with FP buffers?
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
No, I have a working sample, in which I can use.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
He said he "saw a working sample".
As for performance, Rollo, I guess you missed it:
http://www.beyond3d.com/reviews/ati/r520/index.php?p=21
Rollo wont believe what your reviews state, or maybe he will just pick and choose what he wants to believe, to help his cause.
From a thread where I brought up your reviews showing that the XT and GTX are very close in sound, and the XT is not a dustbuster like he claims.
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ackmed:
CGW, ExtremeTech, The Tech Report, HardOCp, and Rage3d all say the X1800XT is loud, and/or louder than the GTXs.
Funny how B3d seems to be the only one saying it isn't? (besides you, of course)
Implying that you are bias, and not competent enough to get the right numbers.
Originally posted by: Rollo
If I were Dave and getting alpha hardware and news 6 months in advance from ATI I'd probably post things like "The 6800U 2slot, the 7800GTX single slot, and the 7800GTX Quadro cooled all have exactly the same dB output!" as well.
Again, implies that you are bias.
Originally posted by: Rollo
I take Dave with a grain of salt. There is good info with the bad on his site, if he had no bias he'd be a stellar reviewer.
I suppose we all have some.
Just comes out and calls you bias. I asked him to post on B3D, and ask you about your numbers from the reviews he didnt believe. You see, he now wants to take your numbers as factual, but didnt want to earlier. And the reason why I have him on ignore. You see, being hypocritcal and flip-flopping whenever you want to help your agenda is not posts I want to read.
I've never compared the GTX and XT together, so the numbers aren't comparable; this should be known and can easily be seen if anyone looks at the test setups. Because of the testing going on at the moment I've been swithching betten the ASUS SLI motherboard and a Crossfire reference board for NVIDIA and ATI articles - the Crossfire reference is passively cooled, while anyone that knows the early ASUS SLI board knows that it has an incredibly whiney MCP fan which will be picked up by the noise monitor given its location; this is one such reason why comparing between reviews doesn't produce valid comparisons.Originally posted by: Ackmed
From a thread where I brought up your reviews showing that the XT and GTX are very close in sound, and the XT is not a dustbuster like he claims.
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ackmed:
CGW, ExtremeTech, The Tech Report, HardOCp, and Rage3d all say the X1800XT is loud, and/or louder than the GTXs.
Funny how B3d seems to be the only one saying it isn't? (besides you, of course)
Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
I've never compared the GTX and XT together, so the numbers aren't comparable; this should be known and can easily be seen if anyone looks at the test setups. Because of the testing going on at the moment I've been swithching betten the ASUS SLI motherboard and a Crossfire reference board for NVIDIA and ATI articles - the Crossfire reference is passively cooled, while anyone that knows the early ASUS SLI board knows that it has an incredibly whiney MCP fan which will be picked up by the noise monitor given its location; this is one such reason why comparing between reviews doesn't produce valid comparisons.Originally posted by: Ackmed
From a thread where I brought up your reviews showing that the XT and GTX are very close in sound, and the XT is not a dustbuster like he claims.
Originally posted by: Rollo
Ackmed:
CGW, ExtremeTech, The Tech Report, HardOCp, and Rage3d all say the X1800XT is loud, and/or louder than the GTXs.
Funny how B3d seems to be the only one saying it isn't? (besides you, of course)
Bear in mind that SS2 uses Filtering on FP textures, which need to be done via the shaders for X1000.Originally posted by: Pete
As for HDR+AA performance or the HDR errors in SS2, I really don't know enough to comment, but it's obviously disappointing that these features aren't working (and without errors) from launch.
Looking at HW.fr's (Damien's and Marc's) numbers, we see enabling 4xAA on top of HDR in FC incurs about a 25% hit, which is roughly the same as enabling 4xAA without HDR. The problem is that ATI takes a huge hit just enabling HDR, so while the relative performance hit of AA is the same, the real framerate is almost too low to matter (edit: at HW.fr's 16x12 and 19x12 resolutions). The X1800's FC HDR performance hits a wall at 10x7, judging by Dave's numbers, so testing at the high resolutions HW.fr did doesn't show very promising framerates. I believe the HDR+AA question is settled in the affirmative, but that leaves the real question, which is why ATI takes such a huge hit with HDR in FC (and why it has problems in SS2 and totally fumbles AoE3). If this is a case of driver immaturity, OK, at least things'll get fixed eventually. If this is a hardware limitation, though, then that's a more serious issue that gamers should consider. Is this a result of no FP16 blending h/w, and how will this affect future games (both for PCs and also consoles, what with 360 sporting ATI and PS3 sporting essentially a GTX512)?
At the moment I'm using what I've been seeded with. With the type of reviews I'm doing single card performance is of more importance right now. I might look at an SLIX16 platform in the new year.Originally posted by: Rollo
Since those are the two cards people are comparing, don't you think it would be better to use a Premium,32, or Fatality for the 7800s?
Originally posted by: crazydingo
Your comment right back at ya:Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Originally posted by: M0RPH
So we have confirmation that it works as long as the game supports it.
Only question left is, why would you buy a video card that makes you choose between HDR and AA if you can have them both?
Where is this confirmation?
Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
And may I suggest this: http://www.pa.com/index.jsp
And address this: "clearly Dave has pointed out HDR+AA works"
LMFAO :laugh:
Q F TOriginally posted by: Pete
So far we have Dave and Damien with numbers and Dave and Rys with screenshots. You think all three are covering for ATI?
If you amended your thread title to "HDR+AA not working on any games yet" rather than "on X1800XTs," you wouldn't have seen the preditable responses to your predictable leaning. Do you honestly think ATI could get away with touting a feature they don't have? Fudging on full trilinear in screenshots is one thing, but it's pretty hard to miss AA in a still screenshot.
As for HDR+AA performance or the HDR errors in SS2, I really don't know enough to comment, but it's obviously disappointing that these features aren't working (and without errors) from launch. Then again, was Far Cry sporting HDR this soon after the 6800 launched? Meaning, how long have developers had with an X1000-series card to enable AA with FP buffers?
You asked for confirmation when you quoted it yourself! leading me to say it again ..Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
What exactly is wrong with you really? You take a comment which I quoted YOU saying and throw it back at me as if it was my own? And say your comment right back at me? You never make any sense Dingo and history show others have this problem with you as well. I know, I know, you don't remember. What else is new.
Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
At the moment I'm using what I've been seeded with. With the type of reviews I'm doing single card performance is of more importance right now. I might look at an SLIX16 platform in the new year.Originally posted by: Rollo
Since those are the two cards people are comparing, don't you think it would be better to use a Premium,32, or Fatality for the 7800s?
Originally posted by: crazydingo
You asked for confirmation when you quoted it yourself! leading me to say it again ..Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
What exactly is wrong with you really? You take a comment which I quoted YOU saying and throw it back at me as if it was my own? And say your comment right back at me? You never make any sense Dingo and history show others have this problem with you as well. I know, I know, you don't remember. What else is new.
May I suggest this: CLICK for you.
A-ha! Thought that was the problem. So, can ATI code something up to automatically convert (NV-specific?) FP texture filtering into fragment shader equivalents, or is this strictly up to the game dev?Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
Bear in mind that SS2 uses Filtering on FP textures, which need to be done via the shaders for X1000.
I forgot about that FP16 table, and in fact that whole page. Thanks for reminding me.I'm not sure where the issue lies at the moment in terms of performance. If you look at Damiens Far Cry number he's not using the same patch for the 7800's and X1000's, so we don't know that the same thing is going on in each (even if it was the same patch there's no guarantess the same thing is actually happening). Looking at Damiens pure FP16 fill and blending rates they appear to be about where you would expect them to be in relation to the GTX 256MB:
Originally posted by: Zenoth
I'm still waiting for Rollo's answers to my questions in my last post.
Originally posted by: DaveBaumann
Bear in mind that SS2 uses Filtering on FP textures, which need to be done via the shaders for X1000.Originally posted by: Pete
As for HDR+AA performance or the HDR errors in SS2, I really don't know enough to comment, but it's obviously disappointing that these features aren't working (and without errors) from launch.
Looking at HW.fr's (Damien's and Marc's) numbers, we see enabling 4xAA on top of HDR in FC incurs about a 25% hit, which is roughly the same as enabling 4xAA without HDR. The problem is that ATI takes a huge hit just enabling HDR, so while the relative performance hit of AA is the same, the real framerate is almost too low to matter (edit: at HW.fr's 16x12 and 19x12 resolutions). The X1800's FC HDR performance hits a wall at 10x7, judging by Dave's numbers, so testing at the high resolutions HW.fr did doesn't show very promising framerates. I believe the HDR+AA question is settled in the affirmative, but that leaves the real question, which is why ATI takes such a huge hit with HDR in FC (and why it has problems in SS2 and totally fumbles AoE3). If this is a case of driver immaturity, OK, at least things'll get fixed eventually. If this is a hardware limitation, though, then that's a more serious issue that gamers should consider. Is this a result of no FP16 blending h/w, and how will this affect future games (both for PCs and also consoles, what with 360 sporting ATI and PS3 sporting essentially a GTX512)?
I'm not sure where the issue lies at the moment in terms of performance. If you look at Damiens Far Cry number he's not using the same patch for the 7800's and X1000's, so we
don't know that the same thing is going on in each (even if it was the same patch there's no guarantess the same thing is actually happening). Looking at Damiens pure FP16 fill and blending rates they appear to be about where you would expect them to be in relation to the GTX 256MB:
http://www.hardware.fr/articles/592-4/ati-radeon-x1800-xt-xl.html
[Edit] Actually, althouh the X1800 XL has a higher fill-rate than GTX 256MB FP16 blending is going to be bandwidth bound and looking at the XL number in relation to the GTX the pure performance seems to be quite favourable for the X1800 XL, given its lower bandwidth.
Maybe you should really look into your own link (ADHD). You quote this sentence "clearly Dave has pointed out HDR+AA works" yourself and are now refusing it.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
How in the world is your interpretation of what Dave said any sort of confirmation? Because it couldn't be any further from it.
pwning me .. in your head. If you say 'pwn' yourself, it has no meaning and it is usually done by people who cant really 'pwn' any people in reality. :laugh:Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Confirmation indeed, not. The ADHD link is still pwning you. If you thought for one instant that I would accept your interpretation as a confirmation, well, I just have to :laugh:
Originally posted by: Acanthus
That explains the enormous performance hit for EXR HDR on ATi cards having to run all of the blending through the shaders, ive lost interest in that feature to be honest, on Nv you cant have AA and on ATi the performance hit is too large to play at enjoyable settings it appears.
Originally posted by: crazydingo
Maybe you should really look into your own link (ADHD). You quote this sentence "clearly Dave has pointed out HDR+AA works" yourself and are now refusing it.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
How in the world is your interpretation of what Dave said any sort of confirmation? Because it couldn't be any further from it.
pwning me .. in your head. If you say 'pwn' yourself, it has no meaning and it is usually done by people who cant really 'pwn' any people in reality. :laugh:Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Confirmation indeed, not. The ADHD link is still pwning you. If you thought for one instant that I would accept your interpretation as a confirmation, well, I just have to :laugh:
Conversely, your interpretation of things does not mean at all. Truckloads of salt type of stuff.Originally posted by: keysplayr2003
Like I said, your interpretation of things does not mean much. Grain of salt type stuff.