HDR vs. AA in oblivion

[avi85]

I'm complete noob when it comes to video cards, so I was wondering what exactly HDR is and why I can't have it on at the same time as AA in oblivion.
Also which will get me higher framerates and which will look better?

 

[Roguestar]

GeForce cards don't (long story short) support AA and HDR at the same time. HDR stands for High Dynamic Range and is a method of lighting effects and such in newer games. In HL2: Lost Coast, for example it makes light bloom effects when you walk out into the sun from being inside in the dark, which dissipate over time like in real life. In short, pretty lighting. AA helps smooth out choppy edges on textures and if turned off completely is really noticeable at lower resolutions. In Oblivion, both will cause your framerate to suffer but I think high-depth AA will give you the largest performance hit.

 

[akshayt]

AFAIK they do support 10fp AA + HDR which is supported in games like HL2 Loast Loast.

I would anyday get HDR over AA

 

[OBCT]

Yeah, HDR makes or breaks a lot of games that use it, especially Oblivion. I wouldn't dream of using Bloom lighting in it.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Once you play Oblivion with HDR+AA there is no going back, it just looks pitiful without it and the colour just looks poor with bloom. It's a shame that Nvidia hardware can't do it, but since I had an X1800XT 256MB (and now an X1900XT 512MB) I can enjoy unsurpassed IQ in visuals like these.

Edit: Those are downsized from 1440x900 as another forum I post on has a rule against screenshots over 800px wide.

 

[avi85]

Originally posted by: Roguestar
GeForce cards don't (long story short) support AA and HDR at the same time. HDR stands for High Dynamic Range and is a method of lighting effects and such in newer games. In HL2: Lost Coast, for example it makes light bloom effects when you walk out into the sun from being inside in the dark, which dissipate over time like in real life. In short, pretty lighting. AA helps smooth out choppy edges on textures and if turned off completely is really noticeable at lower resolutions. In Oblivion, both will cause your framerate to suffer but I think high-depth AA will give you the largest performance hit.

Is this a hardware thing? or is it possible that a future driver release will correct this problem

 

[PingSpike]

Originally posted by: avi85

Originally posted by: Roguestar
GeForce cards don't (long story short) support AA and HDR at the same time. HDR stands for High Dynamic Range and is a method of lighting effects and such in newer games. In HL2: Lost Coast, for example it makes light bloom effects when you walk out into the sun from being inside in the dark, which dissipate over time like in real life. In short, pretty lighting. AA helps smooth out choppy edges on textures and if turned off completely is really noticeable at lower resolutions. In Oblivion, both will cause your framerate to suffer but I think high-depth AA will give you the largest performance hit.

Is this a hardware thing? or is it possible that a future driver release will correct this problem

The part of nvidia hardware that does AA also is used to do HDR from my understanding. So they won't be able to fix it with a driver update. ATI can do it because they have two seperate pieces.

 

[Munky]

Originally posted by: akshayt
AFAIK they do support 10fp AA + HDR which is supported in games like HL2 Loast Loast.

I would anyday get HDR over AA

No, they don't. The hardware physically can not do multisampling of floating point buffers.
Lost Coast doesnt use any FP render targets at all, they do bloom via DX9 shaders.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: akshayt
AFAIK they do support 10fp AA + HDR which is supported in games like HL2 Loast Loast.

I would anyday get HDR over AA

No, they don't. The hardware physically can not do multisampling of floating point buffers.
Lost Coast doesnt use any FP render targets at all, they do bloom via DX9 shaders.

I could have sworn that Gabe Newell's commentary in Lost Coast made it clear they used a dumbed-down version of HDR.

 

[GundamSonicZeroX]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: munky

Originally posted by: akshayt
AFAIK they do support 10fp AA + HDR which is supported in games like HL2 Loast Loast.

I would anyday get HDR over AA

No, they don't. The hardware physically can not do multisampling of floating point buffers.
Lost Coast doesnt use any FP render targets at all, they do bloom via DX9 shaders.

I could have sworn that Gabe Newell's commentary in Lost Coast made it clear they used a dumbed-down version of HDR.

HL2's HDR is a glorified bloom IIRC.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX
HL2's HDR is a glorified bloom IIRC.

Thanks for clearing it up for me.

 

[MrWizzard]

Ulfhednar

Once you play Oblivion with HDR+AA there is no going back, it just looks pitiful without it and the colour just looks poor with bloom. It's a shame that Nvidia hardware can't do it, but since I had an X1800XT 256MB (and now an X1900XT 512MB) I can enjoy unsurpassed IQ in visuals like these.

Edit: Those are downsized from 1440x900 as another forum I post on has a rule against screenshots over 800px wide.

I have a x1900xt (512), but I still like my 7950GX2 more. Might be my fanboyism though. I play Oblivion at 1920x1080 the ATI could do it but the 7950 does it better.

SLI was not an option.

If you have to choose go with HDR, most of the time it's better than AA most of the time...

 

[Ulfhednar]

Originally posted by: MrWizzard
Ulfhednar

Once you play Oblivion with HDR+AA there is no going back, it just looks pitiful without it and the colour just looks poor with bloom. It's a shame that Nvidia hardware can't do it, but since I had an X1800XT 256MB (and now an X1900XT 512MB) I can enjoy unsurpassed IQ in visuals like these.

Edit: Those are downsized from 1440x900 as another forum I post on has a rule against screenshots over 800px wide.

I have a x1900xt (512), but I still like my 7950GX2 more. Might be my fanboyism though. I play Oblivion at 1920x1080 the ATI could do it but the 7950 does it better.

SLI was not an option.

If you have to choose go with HDR, most of the time it's better than AA most of the time...

The 7950GX2 will easily outperform the X1900XT, and I would have bought one if my budget could've gone that far, but I can't live without AA and would have gone mental with only bloom.

I previously did HDR+AA on the X1800XT that I broke, and after using them together for so long, a 7950GX2 would've felt like a downgrade to me in terms of image quality (not performance.)

 

[Bull Dog]

Another HDR+AA (in Oblivion) swearer here.

 

[TheRyuu]

Sigh.......
I wish I had a X1900 (or X1950XTX).

There's a story on how I ended up with my 7900GT's.
I got 7800GT's in SLI back in Dec of 05 when Nvidia had the market lead and I can't remember but the X1800XT couldn't be found or something. Then right at the end of my 3 month step up period, I step upped to 7900GT's in SLI slightly after the X1900XT was released.

If I had to go back I might have sold my 7800GT's for a X1900XT but my cards perform fine. Just a pain they can't do HDR+AA.
JAGGIES MUST DIE

 

[Polish3d]

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: MrWizzard
Ulfhednar

Once you play Oblivion with HDR+AA there is no going back, it just looks pitiful without it and the colour just looks poor with bloom. It's a shame that Nvidia hardware can't do it, but since I had an X1800XT 256MB (and now an X1900XT 512MB) I can enjoy unsurpassed IQ in visuals like these.

Edit: Those are downsized from 1440x900 as another forum I post on has a rule against screenshots over 800px wide.

I have a x1900xt (512), but I still like my 7950GX2 more. Might be my fanboyism though. I play Oblivion at 1920x1080 the ATI could do it but the 7950 does it better.

SLI was not an option.

If you have to choose go with HDR, most of the time it's better than AA most of the time...

The 7950GX2 will easily outperform the X1900XT, and I would have bought one if my budget could've gone that far, but I can't live without AA and would have gone mental with only bloom.

I previously did HDR+AA on the X1800XT that I broke, and after using them together for so long, a 7950GX2 would've felt like a downgrade to me in terms of image quality (not performance.)

I doubt with all settings being equal a 7950GX2 will perform much faster than an X1900xtx in Oblivion, or many other games.

 

[Ackmed]

Nice videos with HDR+AA, and AA vs. no AA; Oblivion included. I think HDR+AA looks better than either HDR alone, or AA alone.

http://www.teamati.com/ Click on video 1 and video 2.

Originally posted by: Ulfhednar

Originally posted by: MrWizzard
Ulfhednar

Once you play Oblivion with HDR+AA there is no going back, it just looks pitiful without it and the colour just looks poor with bloom. It's a shame that Nvidia hardware can't do it, but since I had an X1800XT 256MB (and now an X1900XT 512MB) I can enjoy unsurpassed IQ in visuals like these.

Edit: Those are downsized from 1440x900 as another forum I post on has a rule against screenshots over 800px wide.

I have a x1900xt (512), but I still like my 7950GX2 more. Might be my fanboyism though. I play Oblivion at 1920x1080 the ATI could do it but the 7950 does it better.

SLI was not an option.

If you have to choose go with HDR, most of the time it's better than AA most of the time...

The 7950GX2 will easily outperform the X1900XT, and I would have bought one if my budget could've gone that far, but I can't live without AA and would have gone mental with only bloom.

I previously did HDR+AA on the X1800XT that I broke, and after using them together for so long, a 7950GX2 would've felt like a downgrade to me in terms of image quality (not performance.)

FS doesnt agree; http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/ati_radeon_x1950_xtx_performance/page11.asp

Shows the X1900XTX .3 frames lower on average at 1600x1200 with no AA, and 16xAF. Three frames slower on max fps, and 2 frames faster on minimum. Looks like a tie to me. But since most review sites refuse to benchmark AA instead of HDR (since NV cant do both) the whole picture is not painted.

edit;

Originally posted by: akshayt
AFAIK they do support 10fp AA + HDR which is supported in games like HL2 Loast Loast.

Might and Magic also uses the Source engine, and has HDR+AA available. Like most though, I think Sources version of HDR isnt as good. While its better than not having it, its just not as good to me. Even X800's can do it.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Well suddenly I am a lot happier about not being able to afford a 7950GX2, or it would've been money well wasted (especially since my X1900XT is actually at X1900XT-X clock frequencies, which seems to shorten the gap even more.)

Thanks a lot Ackmed and Frackal.

 

[avi85]

this sucks
Had I known all this a couple of months ago, I might have gone red instead of green...
well...you live and learn...

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: GundamSonicZeroX

HL2's HDR is a glorified bloom IIRC.

and it still manages to look just as good (or better) than "real" FP16 implementations of HDR in other games such as oblivion or FC. lot less performance hit, also

 

[Ackmed]

According to whom, you? Certainly not to me, and most others.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Ackmed
and most others.

and these "most other" people would be ...??

DoD:S

Far Cry

yeah... i sure like the "zomg my eyes burn" effect of the far cry hdr over the more realistic DOD:S hdr

 

[Bull Dog]

You have FarCry HDR screwed up. Try a different setting.

 

[schneiderguy]

Originally posted by: Bull Dog
You have FarCry HDR screwed up. Try a different setting.

no i dont, thats not even my screenshot.

here are a bunch other of the eye burning FC HDR effect

Text, Text, Text, Text, and Text

 

[josh6079]

Who in their right mind would try to defend Far Cry's tacked on HDR? Compared to what HDR is starting to look like (Oblivion) neither Source or Crytek have done it very well. Granted, it's better than not having it at all since it makes colors deeper and less mundane. I think that more and more games are going to be utilizing better HDR versions, and Far Cry's was a good step, but DM:M&M is just funner to play, so I'll live with another Source glorified bloom and a great game than Far Cry's FP16HDR and mutated monkey shooting with bad voice overs and sound effects.