Health care: conservative callout

[stormkroe]

Have you ever spent a few minutes on crowd funding sites and saw how many people are trying to raise money for their kid's care? You need to be calloused or in a position to help just to make it back out without breaking down.
My question to conservatives is this:
Would you support 100% healthcare coverage for permanent resident or citizen children until the age of 18, with continuing coverage for those with ongoing issues?
If not, why? And to the 275 dirty liberals on here (love you guys), would you feel like this legislation would be a win for human rights?

 

[IronWing]

It could be a next step toward a single payer, universal coverage system. It seems a bit silly to cover the elderly, the disabled, the poor, and children under such a system but exclude the working people who are paying for it.

 

[stormkroe]

It could be a next step toward a single payer, universal coverage system. It seems a bit silly to cover the elderly, the disabled, the poor, and children under such a system but exclude the working people who are paying for it.

There would have to be a cutoff age in transitioning to a system like this, but ultimately the goal would be to offer affordable coverage to those who opt to keep it after turning 19, a 6-12 month probation for those that decided they were too healthy but wanted coverage later on, and a univerally (within the country) vetted, transparent cost table based on age and risk factor for pricing. It might be an easier transition to SP from a system like this if that's still the goal.
(Also trying to have a thread without the 'T' word in it for a change).

 

[BigDH01]

There are essentially no resources that are post-scarcity. How far do you go to save one child's life? Is saving one child's life worth more than the average lifetime earnings of two workers? Four workers? One hundred workers?

The reality is that the democrats should've embraced "death panels". They are a reality of any affordable socialized healthcare system. Society simply cannot afford to give an unlimited amount of healthcare to every individual.

And before anyone responds suggesting I'm being ridiculous: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...s-38-to-43-increases-some-customers/84277758/

She said about 10 percentage points of the increase stem from the costs of a single, extremely complicated patient who is receiving $1 million per month worth of care for a severe genetic disorder.

So this one patient is at least partially responsible for making healthcare unaffordable for 100s or 1000s of other patients. Some back-of-the-napkin math, an adult with a degree can expect to earn roughly 2 million in their lifetime. This one patient consumes that many resources in two months. If this person manages to make it another 10 years, that's 10 * 12 / 2 or the lifetime earnings of 60 adults. Twenty years is 120 adults, etc. Does that seem reasonable to you?

 

[glenn1]

Have you ever spent a few minutes on crowd funding sites and saw how many people are trying to raise money for their kid's care? You need to be calloused or in a position to help just to make it back out without breaking down.
My question to conservatives is this:
Would you support 100% healthcare coverage for permanent resident or citizen children until the age of 18, with continuing coverage for those with ongoing issues?
If not, why? And to the 275 dirty liberals on here (love you guys), would you feel like this legislation would be a win for human rights?

If every liberal begging for “universal healthcare” funded these folks out of their pockets we wouldn’t need UHC.

 

[IronWing]

If every liberal begging for “universal healthcare” funded these folks out of their pockets we wouldn’t need UHC.

I'll score that as a "no".

 

[stormkroe]

There are essentially no resources that are post-scarcity. How far do you go to save one child's life? Is saving one child's life worth more than the average lifetime earnings of two workers? Four workers? One hundred workers?

The reality is that the democrats should've embraced "death panels". They are a reality of any affordable socialized healthcare system. Society simply cannot afford to give an unlimited amount of healthcare to every individual.

And before anyone responds suggesting I'm being ridiculous: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...s-38-to-43-increases-some-customers/84277758/

So this one patient is at least partially responsible for making healthcare unaffordable for 100s or 1000s of other patients. Some back-of-the-napkin math, an adult with a degree can expect to earn roughly 2 million in their lifetime. This one patient consumes that many resources in two months. If this person manages to make it another 10 years, that's 10 * 12 / 2 or the lifetime earnings of 60 adults. Twenty years is 120 adults, etc. Does that seem reasonable to you?

There are essentially no resources that are post-scarcity. How far do you go to save one child's life? Is saving one child's life worth more than the average lifetime earnings of two workers? Four workers? One hundred workers?

The reality is that the democrats should've embraced "death panels". They are a reality of any affordable socialized healthcare system. Society simply cannot afford to give an unlimited amount of healthcare to every individual.

And before anyone responds suggesting I'm being ridiculous: https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...s-38-to-43-increases-some-customers/84277758/

So this one patient is at least partially responsible for making healthcare unaffordable for 100s or 1000s of other patients. Some back-of-the-napkin math, an adult with a degree can expect to earn roughly 2 million in their lifetime. This one patient consumes that many resources in two months. If this person manages to make it another 10 years, that's 10 * 12 / 2 or the lifetime earnings of 60 adults. Twenty years is 120 adults, etc. Does that seem reasonable to you?

Philosophically, the goal of both sides is the betterment of our progeny. Conservatives 'usually' attribute it to divinely mandated stewardship of their children and the earth, Liberals 'usually' attribute it to evolutionary hardwiring for the survival of our species. So, yes, I feel that the life of a child outweighs that of an adult.
As to the second movement of your reply, I feel like you're assuming a truth that shouldn't be. No, one person cannot in probability be worth more than 100s or 1000s of others. HOWEVER, you've just assumed that a 1 MILLION dollar per month charge is an immovable object. I say that a charge like that could NEVER withstand an over-sighted, fully transparent charge schedule (unless they're producing the meds from scratch one particle at a time with the hadron collider).
Does that price seem reasonable to you?

 

[glenn1]

I'll score that as a "no".

Why should the vast majority of parents who are already providing this for their children (and rightfully so) instead insert a government middleman into things? OP isn’t asking for something simple and cost bound like “allow every poor kid up to $500 in taxpayer subsidized care annually”, he’s literally asking for an open ended commitment without upper limit.

 

[stormkroe]

If every liberal begging for “universal healthcare” funded these folks out of their pockets we wouldn’t need UHC.

Why not have a federal registry of patients in need of life saving care that can be donated to publicly or anonymously, that also qualifies as at least a partial tax write off. Then lefties and righties can see who puts their money where their mouth is.

 

[Thebobo]

New health care is to beg rich people for your life or the life of your child.

 

[stormkroe]

Why should the vast majority of parents who are already providing this for their children (and rightfully so) instead insert a government middleman into things? OP isn’t asking for something simple and cost bound like “allow every poor kid up to $500 in taxpayer subsidized care annually”, he’s literally asking for an open ended commitment without upper limit.

You realize that some countries do this for all ages, right? Don't get me wrong, I don't think single payer is the best answer, at least in the ways I've experienced its implementation, but if it can be done for people from 0-100 years old, why not try 0-18 here?
I figured 18 was the age that you could properly reach your bootstraps to start pulling.

 

[stormkroe]

New health care is to beg rich people for your life or the life of your child.

Wouldn't be statistically necessary with an affordable coverage schedule. Isn't that the entire philosophy of ACA or most other insurance frames? That there is a quantifiable cost per year for medical coverage, we just have to make educated guesses as to the amount at distribute the costs fairly?

 

[BigDH01]

Philosophically, the goal of both sides is the betterment of our progeny. Conservatives 'usually' attribute it to divinely mandated stewardship of their children and the earth, Liberals 'usually' attribute it to evolutionary hardwiring for the survival of our species. So, yes, I feel that the life of a child outweighs that of an adult.

Making feels-based policy usually leads to suboptimal outcomes and the road to hell is usually paved with good intentions (see those resources for which the government has a strong hand, health care, education, and home ownership and notice how in all markets prices are inflating rapidly). As a libertarian, I do not feel like a child's life is worth more than an adults. I don't feel that a man is worth more than a woman or a white person is worth more than a black person either. I see no reason to feel that way, just as I don't see a reason why a child would be worth more than an adult. Frankly, I think that statement is ridiculous.

As to the second movement of your reply, I feel like you're assuming a truth that shouldn't be.

I gave you a real life example of a single person (if I remember correctly from another article, a child) whose life is literally consuming the entire output of 10s or 100s of workers. This situation is bound to happen and unless you have some magical human/material replicator that doesn't consume energy, you're going to have to deal with rationing. You can either let the market do it via prices or you can leave it up to some governing committee in a command economy. Given that you've already stated you feel a child's life is worth more than my own (based on no other knowledge), you can see why I'm a little leery of you bleeding heart types.

No, one person cannot in probability be worth more than 100s or 1000s of others. HOWEVER, you've just assumed that a 1 MILLION dollar per month charge is an immovable object. I say that a charge like that could NEVER withstand an over-sighted, fully transparent charge schedule (unless they're producing the meds from scratch one particle at a time with the hadron collider).
Does that price seem reasonable to you?

I have no idea if it's reasonable, I just know that's what's being charged. If you think the government is going to make things cheaper, I recommend you look at the prices of houses, degrees, and yes, healthcare. They've rarely delivered on the promises of efficiency before, I have no reason to think they'll suddenly be able to perform miracles.

 

[UNCjigga]

If every liberal begging for “universal healthcare” funded these folks out of their pockets we wouldn’t need UHC.

We did fund healthcare for every poor kid enrolled in public school. It's called CHIP, and Republicans were holding funding hostage and using it as a bargaining "chip" to get a CR.

 

[glenn1]

We did fund healthcare for every poor kid enrolled in public school. It's called CHIP, and Republicans were holding funding hostage and using it as a bargaining "chip" to get a CR.

Great then OP ask has already been fulfilled. Onto the next agenda item.

 

[zerocool84]

Great then OP ask has already been fulfilled. Onto the next agenda item.

No it has not been fulfilled, CHIP does not apply to every child. You want a child to die because it would be too expensive to save the child.

 

[Jaskalas]

My question to conservatives is this:
Would you support 100% healthcare coverage for permanent resident or citizen children until the age of 18, with continuing coverage for those with ongoing issues?
If not, why? And to the 275 dirty liberals on here (love you guys), would you feel like this legislation would be a win for human rights?

I mean... it'd be a nice start, sure.
But kids also have parents and if they get sick... then what?

Providing healthcare a "win" for human rights? I think so. It's an important issue to many people, given the costs and consequences. We can certainly do far better than we are today. Signed... dirty liberal.

 

[sandorski]

Weirdly, other developed nations don't have these issues providing Healthcare to all.

 

[zinfamous]

Why should the vast majority of parents who are already providing this for their children (and rightfully so) instead insert a government middleman into things? OP isn’t asking for something simple and cost bound like “allow every poor kid up to $500 in taxpayer subsidized care annually”, he’s literally asking for an open ended commitment without upper limit.

I know right? why insert a government middleman when you're perfectly happy with the corporate middleman that's already there, jacking up costs and running up expenses to pay for those posh oak boardroom tables. I think your issue, as with many things, is that your terrified of only a handful of words or thoughts. Without those clogging your brain, you'd probably be more reasonable. "Government" bothers you. The poors bother you, etc.

 

[BigDH01]

Weirdly, other developed nations don't have these issues providing Healthcare to all.

I'm not aware of any healthcare system that gives all possible treatments to all citizens.

 

[zinfamous]

Making feels-based policy usually leads to suboptimal outcomes and the road to hell is usually paved with good intentions (see those resources for which the government has a strong hand, health care, education, and home ownership and notice how in all markets prices are inflating rapidly). As a libertarian, I do not feel like a child's life is worth more than an adults. I don't feel that a man is worth more than a woman or a white person is worth more than a black person either. I see no reason to feel that way, just as I don't see a reason why a child would be worth more than an adult. Frankly, I think that statement is ridiculous.

Libertarian first, human second. Got it.

 

[BigDH01]

Libertarian first, human second. Got it.

Which part of my post specifically makes me a human second? Is it the law of unintended consequences or my belief that no human life is more sacred than others?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

People are saying Trump has asked at several healthcare policy meetings with Republican representatives “Why can’t we have Medicare take over this” or “Why can’t we let people buy Medicare”

 

[mdram]

sure thing, as long as no tax money is used to fund it do whatever you want
crowdfund it if you like. the gov should not be in the insurance business.

oh and if obamacare was so great, why are people crowdfunding thier kids care?

 

[SlowSpyder]

My ultimate preference would be affordable to everyone privatized care where companies compete for your business. But I do think that's too far gone at this point and that ultimately some sort of socialist healthcare will have to be put in place. But, if costs could just get under control I think the private avenue is better.