Health Premiums Up $3,000; Obama Vowed $2,500 Cut

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
http://news.investors.com/092412-626848-health-premiums-up-3065-obama-vowed-2500-cut.aspx

During his first run for president, Barack Obama made one very specific promise to voters: He would cut health insurance premiums for families by $2,500, and do so in his first term.

But it turns out that family premiums have increased by more than $3,000 since Obama's vow, according to the latest annual Kaiser Family Foundation employee health benefits survey.

Premiums for employer-provided family coverage rose $3,065 — 24% — from 2008 to 2012, the Kaiser survey found. Even if you start counting in 2009, premiums have climbed $2,370.

What's more, premiums climbed faster in Obama's four years than they did in the previous four under President Bush, the survey data show.

oh lawdy can't wait to see the costs keep going up and up due to the idiocy of our legislators and leaders. ACA is sheer idiocy. Great job guys, thanks for justifying your jobs, next time could you at least do it? Fucking what garbage, moving costs around shifting shit, hiding numbers, all a bogus game for votes and feel goodness. All of you who support the ACA make me sick. Which really sucks cause now my premiums cost more
 

IronWing

No Lifer
Jul 20, 2001
69,557
27,861
136
Ain't private health insurance great! 16% of GDP down a rat hole.

Next time, demand a single payer system.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Ain't private health insurance great! 16% of GDP down a rat hole.

Next time, demand a single payer system.

That way those who are want to make it much harder for people dealing with pain will take over the system. Ain't that gonna be great!

Oh, the costs will still go up even then.

But it was obvious that savings were a scam, but to supporters the old saying holds "a lie is as good as the truth if you can get people to believe it."

Next lie up is that those who didn't know enough to step in with Obamacare wil become all knowing and wise and if you give them the system they'll be so much better than they ever have. Well, it's as good as the truth.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I want the Government to deregulate more of the health car eindustry. MORE PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE CARE IN ORDER FOR PRICES TO COME DOWN. MORE PEOPLE NEED TO BE ABLE TO PARTICIPATE IN THE PRODUCTION OF DRUGS FOR PRICES TO COME DOWN. WE NEED LESS BUREAUCRACY OVER ALL FOR THE PRICES TO COME DOWN. Setting up all these rules and systems for everyone to play along, setting a "standard" is ridiculous. It really baffles me how many people think any sort of system is going to take care of them if they didn't design it themselves, because clearly it could not have been designed with their best intentions in mind.
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
Whenever government money gets involved you almost always see costs increase, partly because those receiving the money see the government as an "unlimited" money source (so yes, the blame lies in more than one place here). Plenty of examples of this are out there. Rarely (if ever) does the introduction of government money into a system ever make anything truly cheaper.

Government and "affordable" do not belong in the same sentence.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
http://news.investors.com/092412-626848-health-premiums-up-3065-obama-vowed-2500-cut.aspx



oh lawdy can't wait to see the costs keep going up and up due to the idiocy of our legislators and leaders. ACA is sheer idiocy. Great job guys, thanks for justifying your jobs, next time could you at least do it? Fucking what garbage, moving costs around shifting shit, hiding numbers, all a bogus game for votes and feel goodness. All of you who support the ACA make me sick. Which really sucks cause now my premiums cost more


funny- costs seem to be following the same trend for over a decade, with employers squeezing more out of their workers-



Politicians make lots of promises- doesn't mean that they're omnipotent, or that those promises aren't subject to forces beyond their control.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0

Throckmorton

Lifer
Aug 23, 2007
16,830
3
0
funny- costs seem to be following the same trend for over a decade, with employers squeezing more out of their workers-



Politicians make lots of promises- doesn't mean that they're omnipotent, or that those promises aren't subject to forces beyond their control.

In what universe have earnings gone up 47% since 1999??? Has there really been 37% inflation in that time?
 

SparkyJJO

Lifer
May 16, 2002
13,357
7
81
funny- costs seem to be following the same trend for over a decade, with employers squeezing more out of their workers-

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/files/2012/09/kff11.png

Politicians make lots of promises- doesn't mean that they're omnipotent, or that those promises aren't subject to forces beyond their control.

OK, let's just take the chart at face value real quick, because even when doing so, your claim that employers are "squeezing" more out of the employees using this chart is hogwash.

Maybe you've forgotten that percentages are relative? If the cost of something increases by 50%, and the cost is split by multiple people, their individual costs also go up by 50%.

Here, let me put some hard numbers in place so you can understand better.

Original cost = $100.
Employer and employee split 50/50.

Costs go up to $150. That's a 50% increase.
Employer and employee both now pay $75, which is a 50% increase for each one of them.

The chart only lists the employee's contribution increases, however, using basic math (and again, the chart at face value) we can easily deduct that the employer's contributions have very similarly increased along the same trend. And before you come up with "but my aunt's uncle's cousin's brother's work didn't" story, we're talking on average, not literally every single one. Some have indeed passed all costs on, others have absorbed more than the equivalent increase, and many have maintained their same split.

Either you need to go back and learn some basic math, or you're purposely distorting the truth
 
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IamDavid

Diamond Member
Sep 13, 2000
5,888
10
81
My company has passed every added cost down to the employee. 74% increase since OC was forced down our throats. New increases for 2013 will easily push to over 100%.. Gotta love Obama.. Does anyone understand basic economics anymore?
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Politicians make lots of promises- doesn't mean that they're omnipotent, or that those promises aren't subject to forces beyond their control.

So they couldn't foresee the obvious? That makes them stupid or liars. Which seems better to you?

Forces beyond their control? Unable to anticipate? It's these guys people want to give the keys of their lives to? These are the people so smart that no serious analysis and planning by experts is needed in advance? Damn, that's dumb.
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
My company has passed every added cost down to the employee. 74% increase since OC was forced down our throats. New increases for 2013 will easily push to over 100%.. Gotta love Obama.. Does anyone understand basic economics anymore?

That sucks man, the company I work for has agreed to meet 50% of the cost increases that are coming our way. I've already seen it nearly double in what gets taken out of my check. Le sigh. I will continue to pay for the best though and never use it, simply because I can.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
My company has passed every added cost down to the employee. 74% increase since OC was forced down our throats. New increases for 2013 will easily push to over 100%.. Gotta love Obama.. Does anyone understand basic economics anymore?

They understood it alright. They needed to say they did something so they could defend it to the death and call everyone who objected to this nonsense the enemy. Always have to have those.

They own every last cent of this and no one else.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
That sucks man, the company I work for has agreed to meet 50% of the cost increases that are coming our way. I've already seen it nearly double in what gets taken out of my check. Le sigh. I will continue to pay for the best though and never use it, simply because I can.

I'm up over 50% and that's because the quality of coverage went down. I figure Obama owes us big.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
15,669
8
0
Ain't private health insurance great! 16% of GDP down a rat hole.

Next time, demand a single payer system.

Except for the fact that half of health care is already paid for by the government. And the fact that America pays twice as much as europe as % of GDP.

If you believe liberals about single payer then the government should be able to cover everyone who currently has private health insurance FOR FREE.

Even Obama does not have that much hope.
 
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bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
I'm up over 50% and that's because the quality of coverage went down. I figure Obama owes us big.

He doesn't owe me anything. I'm not entitled enough to think so All I want is for the rest of you to stop forcing me to play along in this stupid game you have going on and at least ASK me if I want to pitch in a few bucks here and there. It's absolutely ridiculous that people feel like I am some how obligated to participate in all of this non-sense simply because they wish it. The selfishness of collectivism is disheartening.
 

mshan

Diamond Member
Nov 16, 2004
7,868
0
71


"The Romney graphic is false on several levels, though Obama certainly left himself open to scrutiny with imprecise language in the 2008 campaign. Let’s take a look.


The Facts

The Romney campaign cites a statement from a 2007 speech by Obama, but it’s a pledge that was repeated often: “When I am president, we will have universal health care in this country by the end of my first term in office. It's a plan that will cover every American and cut the cost of a typical family's premiums by $2,500 a year.”

This particular quote is not very clear on when the savings would be realized, but in another speech, in 2008, Obama suggested it would be at the end of his first term — though to be fair, it is not clear if he is talking about the savings or enacting a new health care law:
“In an Obama administration, we’ll lower premiums by up to $2,500 for a typical family per year. And we'll do it by investing in disease prevention, not just disease management; by investing in a paperless health care system to reduce administrative costs; and by covering every single American and making sure that they can take their health care with them if they lose their job. We'll also reduce costs for business and their workers by picking up the tab for some of the most expensive illnesses. And we won't do all this twenty years from now, or ten years from now. We'll do it by the end of my first term as President of the United States.”​
The details of this number were further explained in an Obama campaign memo:
“Combining all of these effects — from improved health IT [information technology], better disease management, reduced insurance overhead, reinsurance, and reduced uncompensated care — under our “best-guess” assumptions, we estimate that businesses will save $140 billion annually in insurance premiums. The typical family will save $2500 per year.”​
But note that Obama’s pledge came with an asterisk: He was not saying premiums would fall by that amount, as the Romney graphic asserts, but that costs would be that much lower than anticipated. In other words, if premiums were expected to rise by $5,000, they would only rise by $2,500 — that’s what Obama’s pledge meant, even if he was not too clear about it.

Michael Dobbs, our predecessor as The Fact Checker, awarded Obama Two Pinocchios for the pledge, saying it was based on shaky assumptions (such as a Rand Corp. study that was criticized by the Congressional Budget Office) and there was no guarantee that any savings would be passed on to consumers. Our colleagues at FactCheck.org also thought Obama’s pledge was highly dubious.

Of course, once Obama became president, the health care proposal he advocated as a candidate was significantly changed, even to the point of accepting the individual mandate that he had so criticized when Hillary Rodham Clinton promoted it. But the White House more or less stuck to the idea that costs would not rise as quickly as previously estimated — except that it would result in $2,000 in savings by 2019. (Recall also that the health care law will not be implemented until 2014, making a first-term pledge problematic.)

Now, let’s look at what the Romney campaign has done with the pledge. First, it assumes that Obama was saying that premiums would actually decline by $2,500, rather than decline from a projected increase. Then, it takes the 2011 Kaiser Family Foundation survey estimate (Exhibit 1.11) and subtracts the cost of a 2008 family premium ($12,680) from the cost of a 2011 premium ($15,073). Viola, an increase of $2,393—and a promise gap of $4,893.

The Romney campaign’s math is nonsensical. First of all, the Kaiser survey is conducted from January to May each year, so starting with the 2008 date makes little sense, since that is still George W. Bush’s term. Then the health care law was not passed until 2010, so the first year in which any impact could be seen from the law was in 2011.

But, as the Kaiser report notes, most of the provisions of the new law will not take effect in 2014. Thus far, other provisions, such as providing coverage for adult children up to age 26, appear to have had a modest impact on premiums--perhaps 1 to 2 percentage points. (The White House disputes even that effect.) Still, the full effect on premiums — including any possible savings — will not be seen until the law is completely implemented.

We had previously given the Republican National Committee Three Pinocchios for an ad that had focused on the single data point — the increase in premiums from 2010 to 2011 — and blamed all of the increase on the health care law. Now the Romney campaign has quadrupled the same error in an effort to claim that “health premium costs are $4,893 higher per family than President Obama promised.”


The Pinocchio Test

Obama in 2008 made a foolish, dubious pledge about health care premiums. As we have noted, he will have to answer to Americans if his law fails to live up to that promise by 2019 or if people feel misled by his lawyerly wording. He was warned when he got Two Pinocchios back in 2008.

But two wrongs don’t make a right. The Romney campaign has twisted the meaning of that pledge, and then blamed a partially implemented, one-year-old law for three years of premium increases, in order to concoct an absurd claim."


http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...h-care-pledge/2012/07/03/gJQAVhk3IW_blog.html
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126

That's genuinely interesting. As far as Romney? I haven't even seen the graph I care so little about him. What I do see is a huge increase in premiums with the response apparently being one which is based on Obama saying it would just have been worse. "Affordable" eh?
 

berzerker60

Golden Member
Jul 18, 2012
1,233
1
0
That graphic is an abomination if only because of its fundamental misunderstanding of Venn diagrams.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Orly Jhhnn? I'm just supposd to take your graph at face value? What article does it come from? Why not give the source link as well? Because see I check the washingtonpost and I see an article that makes a similar claim to the one I just posted. http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...35c25c-6a2d-11e1-acc6-32fefc7ccd67_story.html

or how about the drug cost increases?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...lans-may-r_n_1913810.html?utm_hp_ref=business

The graph came from here, a link to the WP-

http://www.bizjournals.com/memphis/news/2012/09/11/health-insurance-premiums-up-4-over.html

My mistake for not providing it.
 
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