Health Premiums Up $3,000; Obama Vowed $2,500 Cut

[Darwin333]

because people didn't get anything for the insurance they paid for?

Not 16% of GDP worth....

 

[Darwin333]

A number that large does seem crazy, but if you look here:

http://bber.unm.edu/econ/us-pci.htm

and consider that a yearly 3% inflation rate (or 2% if you consider it compounding.....) would give you around that amount....it seems realistic.

Then consider that the Feds targeted inflation rate is 2% a year. Compounding is a bitch ain't it.

 

[Darwin333]

Heh. The chart is expressed in percentages. Employees are paying a higher percentage. Run your pseudo-math on that.

In general, employees are paying a higher %.

The percentage is the increase in their direct cost for health insurance not on what percentage of the total cost they pay. Its not pseudo-math its just regular math.

Check out some videos here: http://www.khanacademy.org/math/arithmetic/percents

 

[xBiffx]

That graphic is an abomination if only because of its fundamental misunderstanding of Venn diagrams.

How is that exactly? I understand how the middle number is somewhat BS because they are adding what was promised to what has happened saying that this is the difference today than what you were promised or where you should be if the promises were fulfilled. The real wold difference from 4 years ago is the number on the right. But how again is this a misunderstanding of Venn diagrams?

 

[Xellos2099]

This is going to happen since the idiot didn;t even try to work on LOWERING drug price.

 

[ussfletcher]

There is also the fact that there is a huge health provider shortage in this country that keeps costs high. Everyone will acknowledge that, however they largely ignore the fact that Medical schools and Nursing programs keep enrollment artificially low to perpetuate the shortage. They do this in order to prop up wages and tuition.

Actually, the first place I heard this was from an IEEE talk. Some are considering taking this approach for engineering programs.

 

[bfdd]

There is also the fact that there is a huge health provider shortage in this country that keeps costs high. Everyone will acknowledge that, however they largely ignore the fact that Medical schools and Nursing programs keep enrollment artificially low to perpetuate the shortage. They do this in order to prop up wages and tuition.

That's intentional. The Government created the health care provider monopoly with regulations, why do you think some of us want to deregulate? Oh it's not to screw you guys or those who have issues, it's so that more people can enter the industry, provide care AND LOWER PRICES FOR EVERYONE.

 

[ussfletcher]

That's intentional. The Government created the health care provider monopoly with regulations, why do you think some of us want to deregulate? Oh it's not to screw you guys or those who have issues, it's so that more people can enter the industry, provide care AND LOWER PRICES FOR EVERYONE.

I'd prefer a system modeled on Canada's, I'm not sure that it is less regulated, however. Though in general I identify primarily as a Libertarian, if people insist that these things be provided, we should do them in a way that makes sense.

 

[soulcougher73]

I'm sure its all be design to get single payer or UHC implemented at a later date.

 

[Fern]

Ain't private health insurance great! 16% of GDP down a rat hole.

Next time, demand a single payer system.

Thanks, Joe Leiberman, for killing the public option.

Wouldn't have mattered. Go ahead implement single payer, it won't matter.

It doesn't address the underlying problem, the REAL problem. The real problem is the high costs of HC. Changing only who pays for it won't make a damn bit of difference.

Fern

 

[bfdd]

I'd prefer a system modeled on Canada's, I'm not sure that it is less regulated, however. Though in general I identify primarily as a Libertarian, if people insist that these things be provided, we should do them in a way that makes sense.

I would not prefer a model similar to Canada's. I would prefer it if more people were able to provide health care services at all levels and get rid of the regulation that creates huge entities that over see everything. They cut corners in one spot for another etc. One size fits all is nonsense.

 

[Fern]

Makes me laugh to think that there is so much Repub demanded "compromises" in the ACA and somehow it's all Obama's and the Dem's doing that the ACA got watered down to the point where it's not at all what it was meant to be and do.

You Repubs should thank your own legislators for why the ACA looks and behaves the way it does, and yes, the Blue Dog Dems from Red States also had much to do with the Frankenstein nature of the Act. However, there are good things about the Act that survived the shredder the Repubs and lobbyists put that legislation through.

Own up for once.

What a joke.

Repubs had nothing to do with it.

And you say "own up"?

Fern

 

[Fern]

The president doesn't set prices of products or services offered by private companies, IDIOTS!

Srsly?

He enacts a new tax on medical equip and that won't affect prices?

He sets up a slew of new regulatory requirements and those won't cost a thing? Of course they will and the cost will be passed thru.

His bill mandates higher standards for HI polices (e.g., no annual or lifetime caps) and that won't affect prices? Of course it will.

And nobody said he "set prices of products or services offered by private companies", that's your invention. But Obamacare will clearly and obviously effect the price of HI/medical care.


Fern

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

That's intentional. The Government created the health care provider monopoly with regulations, why do you think some of us want to deregulate? Oh it's not to screw you guys or those who have issues, it's so that more people can enter the industry, provide care AND LOWER PRICES FOR EVERYONE.

Don't forget a chicken in every pot. So if you lower standards what percentage will be saved and the basis in fact for it? For that matter us how little do you think you can offer people to assume the burden of a significant portion of their best years to their education, being responsible for life and death and the killing stress it brings? How much do you think you can cheap out and attract the kind of person required, not just IQ wise, but with the wit and temperament required? What percentage will that save?

Health care providers are for the first time speaking against going into practice. FYI schools flat out lie to students about increasingly horrible working conditions. If they told the truth sane people would chose something else.

But by all means make things even worse. We might form a private health service for ourselves and our loved ones and leave the fruits of policies to those who wanted them.

"Lets shit on them some more" isn't a very good inducement.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Dude, that Sowell quote in your sig is awesome.

That's why I put it there

How much of the Affordable Care Act has even gone into action at this point? It is my understanding that most pieces of the law have not even been enacted.

A lot hasn't yet. What my premiums are going to do next year when things start taking more effect is NOT going to be pretty. Basically makes health care costs UNaffordable for my work to even meet the requirements. I don't know all the ins and outs but everyone at work is dreading it. I'm not really sure what we're going to do. We're a small company with only a few people, far from being made out of money. Frankly its been various levels of roughness since late 2009 and has not been overly comfortable.

 

[CPA]

Ain't private health insurance great! 16% of GDP down a rat hole.

Next time, demand a single payer system.

Explain how it's down a rat hole? Does the money just disappear? No. The whole percentage of GDP argument is irrational and nonsensical.

 

[CPA]

Srsly?

He enacts a new tax on medical equip and that won't affect prices?

He sets up a slew of new regulatory requirements and those won't cost a thing? Of course they will and the cost will be passed thru.

His bill mandates higher standards for HI polices (e.g., no annual or lifetime caps) and that won't affect prices? Of course it will.

And nobody said he "set prices of products or services offered by private companies", that's your invention. But Obamacare will clearly and obviously effect the price of HI/medical care.


Fern

Don't forget penalties for high cost plans, as well.

And don't forget about the two tax increase:

- Medicare from 1.465% to 2.365% for incomes over $200K (remember the no increase of taxes for incomes over $250K promise?)
- Medical FSA contribution limit decreasing from $5K to $2500, increasing taxes on ANYONE with an FSA.

 

[shadow9d9]

What a joke.

Repubs had nothing to do with it.

And you say "own up"?

Fern

What? Are you trying to be serious?

The Democrats STARTED with the republican plan with the option of the public option and medicare buy in. Public option was immediately ejected. The medicare buy in was single handedly removed by lieberman.

However, all of this takes into consideration that the republicans refused to vote for the bill no matter what. 100 added amendments and they still wouldn't play ball. When half of congress refuses to even consider voting for a legislation, that THEY created, just because the other side would get credit, it gives extraordinary power to a handful of people who are borderline. This watered down an already watered down plan.

When half of congress refuses to vote or help craft their own plan, there is a HUGE problem.

 

[shadow9d9]

Wouldn't have mattered. Go ahead implement single payer, it won't matter.

It doesn't address the underlying problem, the REAL problem. The real problem is the high costs of HC. Changing only who pays for it won't make a damn bit of difference.

Fern

When every other first world country has healthcare for all, with no preexisting conditions, and they are all half the cost of ours or less... how could you say there is magically a different problem in the US? Pretend and make believe don't equal reality.

 

[xBiffx]

When every other first world country has healthcare for all, with no preexisting conditions, and they are all half the cost of ours or less... how could you say there is magically a different problem in the US? Pretend and make believe don't equal reality.

When every other first world country has a population the fraction of what the US has how can you spread the false equivalence that their healthcare needs or problems are the same as the US. Population aside, how could you say there are magically the same healthcare concerns throughout the first world nations? False equivalence doesn't equal reality.

 

[EagleKeeper]

When every other first world country has healthcare for all, with no preexisting conditions, and they are all half the cost of ours or less... how could you say there is magically a different problem in the US? Pretend and make believe don't equal reality.

Who do you think helps subsidizes the HC around the world.

Equipment and drugs do not pop into existence.

If they are sold below costs elsewhere, someone else has to make up that cost.

 

[Exterous]

When every other first world country has a population the fraction of what the US has how can you spread the false equivalence that their healthcare needs or problems are the same as the US. Population aside, how could you say there are magically the same healthcare concerns throughout the first world nations? False equivalence doesn't equal reality.

Not to mention how population homogeneity and population density affect Health Care. When the WHO used to give attainment ranks - or the best ranking of Health Care services expected to be achieved under perfect conditions - the US never broke the top 15

 

[Fern]

When every other first world country has healthcare for all, with no preexisting conditions, and they are all half the cost of ours or less... how could you say there is magically a different problem in the US? Pretend and make believe don't equal reality.

1. Those other countries are experiencing exploding HC costs too.

2. As I've posted here several times, the AMA and the New England Journal of Medicine have documented our problem of a lack of medical HC standards. Nearly identical patients with identical medical problems experience hundreds of thousands of $'s difference in medical procedures with NO explanation for such variance.

Our problems are systemic and go faaar beyond HI companies.

Edit: I've lived and worked in Europe for many years. I've experienced universal HC. There are so many differences between us and them and our systems that comparisons are useless. it's all apples to oranges.

Fern