Health Savings Account rant

[alkemyst]

Interesting the laws apparently changed last month and an employer can elect to allow a up to $500 rollover or the 75 day grace period (but not both) on the FSA.

 

[cbrunny]

WTF is a Health Savings Account?

Geeze, just move to Canada already if you want Healthcare.

 

[BoberFett]

WTF is a Health Savings Account?

Geeze, just move to Canada already if you want Healthcare.

The healthcare benefit of living in Canada is vastly outweighed by the fact that you would then be LIVING IN CANADA.

 

[KeithTalent]

The healthcare benefit of living in Canada is vastly outweighed by the fact that you would then be LIVING IN CANADA.

I doubt it's really all that different, depending on which specific area you choose to live in.

KT

 

[Strk]

I prefer having good insurance where I pay little to no money and get a lot in return. Union has to be good for something, right?

 

[BoberFett]

I doubt it's really all that different, depending on which specific area you choose to live in.

KT

You have no idea what you're talking aboot.

 

[PenguinPower]

Interesting the laws apparently changed last month and an employer can elect to allow a up to $500 rollover or the 75 day grace period (but not both) on the FSA.

Or the regs changed in 2013 to allow that.

 

[Exterous]

I checked Vanguard. They don't offer HSAs, but recommend a place that does and has Vanguard investment funds.

Ah yes I see the link takes you to a third party site. For my own curiosity do you know if Health Savings Administrators that Vanguard links to charges minimums?

 

[Blanky]

I am giving HSA a shot for next year. The insurance industry in the US is horseshit, but we'll see how this goes.

 

[dullard]

So I am basically forced to use the money on medical expenses (I have none), let it sit and incur $3/mo fee, or withdraw it and take a 20% hit.

Just transfer it to a no fee HSA provider. Here is one example: https://www.lmcu.org/banking/savings/savings_hsa.aspx

Here is another example: http://www.saturna.com/individual/hsa/index.shtml This offers Vanguard funds, but you do have a transaction fee then.

 

[dullard]

HSAs are the single best LEGAL tax avoidance tactic that is available to most people in the US.
* Contributions are tax free (like a 401k and IRA).
* Gains are tax free (like a Roth IRA).
* Withdrawals are often tax free.
* Contributions reduce your adjusted gross income which may lower your tax bracket and often gets around income limits on many income capped benefits. For example, suppose you make just a bit too much money to qualify for an IRA deduction. Open up an HSA, stick $6550 into it, and now you qualify for IRA deductions. Same goes for anything else that is income capped (EITC, social security, student loan interest, various deductions, etc).

But you need to know what you are doing. HSAs are generally best for the healthy (often the young) and the wealthy (often not the young). Thus there is an inherent contradiction for many people. If you are healthy, you often aren't wealthy.

Find a low fee HSA provider. Put the maximum in ($6550 this year for a family, which gets around fees from almost all HSA providers). Invest it all. Then don't spend it on medical expenses until you are retirement age. Spend your medical expenses out of pocket and forget that you have an HSA. The HSA is best used for the quadruple tax benefit. HSAs are not that good if you spend it right away (unless you planned to do it just to get around AGI limits to qualify for other tax benefits).

 

[edro]

HSAs are awesome but you aren't eligible if you have insurance other than a plan that has a deductible above $1250 (high deductible health plan)... Which is crap.

 

[CPA]

love my fsa*!

*now with $500 roll over!

fsa != hsa

/nm, already addressed.

 

[alkemyst]

Or the regs changed in 2013 to allow that.

Agreed.

 

[alkemyst]

I am giving HSA a shot for next year. The insurance industry in the US is horseshit, but we'll see how this goes.

Where do you live?


I am thinking Canada.

 

[Blanky]

Where do you live?


I am thinking Canada.

US!

 

[alkemyst]

US!

Insurance works well in US IMHO. If you have a problem, vote against lawsuits.

I have carried insurance since I was 18 and it was nearly the price of my car payment in 1990 at that time...

 

[Pulsar]

LOVE my FSA*!

*now with $500 roll over!

Fuck my FSA. Assholes rejected every purchase at my Doctor's Pharmacy because it's not the 'big name ones' like Walgreens or Riteaid. Of course, we live in the middle of no where, and the nearest one of those is an hour away. Oh, but we can get copies of the receipts and mail them all in each time we refill our prescription. Fucking scam artists at HAP (Health Alliance Plan).

 

[alkemyst]

Fuck my FSA. Assholes rejected every purchase at my Doctor's Pharmacy because it's not the 'big name ones' like Walgreens or Riteaid. Of course, we live in the middle of no where, and the nearest one of those is an hour away. Oh, but we can get copies of the receipts and mail them all in each time we refill our prescription. Fucking scam artists at HAP (Health Alliance Plan).

so you save taxes but can't mail a letter?

is it the world's problem you live in no man's land?

If you don't want the benefit don't pay for it.

 

[Pulsar]

so you save taxes but can't mail a letter?

is it the world's problem you live in no man's land?

If you don't want the benefit don't pay for it.

Not quite that simple. They wait 3-4 months before informing you which receipts they are disputing. Most normal people don't save every receipt they get - resulting in a trip back to the pharmacy while they print out all your VISA receipts.

I know you're not dense, and I know you understand what a fucking headache it is to keep chasing receipts. We've stopped using the FSA for exactly that reason: our time is far more valuable than the $200 the FSA saves us in taxes each year.

 

[dullard]

HSAs are awesome but you aren't eligible if you have insurance other than a plan that has a deductible above $1250 (high deductible health plan)... Which is crap.

Not necessarily. That plan with a $1250 deductible probably costs at least $1000 less in premiums (not even considering the $2000+ in tax savings). Meaning, it only looks more expensive but isn't really more expensive for most people.

My wife and I crunch the numbers every year. We do it for many scenarios ranging from us using very little health care all the way to major out-of-network disaster scenarios. The high deductible plan for us is usually about 20% to 30% cheaper in every scenario. Only rarely is the normal plan cheaper, and in those very specific tailored scenarios, it is about 1% to 2% cheaper than the high deductible plans.

Of course, our situation is just for us. But I bet if you actually did the math, you'd find out that the high deductible plan is probably far cheaper in almost all cases for you too.

 

[Bateluer]

Yeah, I hit the same case many years ago. Hated it and didn't know what I could do besides spend it or watch it drain away to nothing.

Same thing happened to me a few years ago. It was only a few hundred in the account though . . . so I just let it drain. :/ Eventually, they stopped sending statements to me. I assume it was closed when the account hit 0 balance.

I don't bother with an HSA any more either. Too much paperwork and restrictions attached to it, not worth the hassle.

 

[edro]

Not necessarily. That plan with a $1250 deductible probably costs at least $1000 less in premiums (not even considering the $2000+ in tax savings). Meaning, it only looks more expensive but isn't really more expensive for most people.

My wife and I crunch the numbers every year. We do it for many scenarios ranging from us using very little health care all the way to major out-of-network disaster scenarios. The high deductible plan for us is usually about 20% to 30% cheaper in every scenario. Only rarely is the normal plan cheaper, and in those very specific tailored scenarios, it is about 1% to 2% cheaper than the high deductible plans.

Of course, our situation is just for us. But I bet if you actually did the math, you'd find out that the high deductible plan is probably far cheaper in almost all cases for you too.

Yeah, I didn't mean HDHPs are crap, I meant the rule preventing anyone from having an HSA is crap.
I would love to keep contributing to my HSA, but I can't because my new employer's health plan has an $800 deductible. The cutoff is $1250, which is crap! $800 is high, to me at least.

 

[QuantumPion]

WTF is a Health Savings Account?

Geeze, just move to Canada already if you want Healthcare.

It's health insurance where instead of paying a premium (or having a reduced salary in the case of socialized medicine that you pay for via taxes) you get to keep the money tax-free and put it into a savings account to pay for your own medical expenses. But it's your money and you get to save it or use it as you wish.

 

[rh71]

My employer gives us $800/yr and it rolls over for HSA - nothing req'd from me including monthly fees, for so-so coverage, and $5650 out of pocket max. I'm still deciding whether this is worthwhile given my other option of paying $875/yr + co-pays but 100% covered for everything else. Basically a $1k out of pocket max, but guaranteed to spend $875.

How easy is it to submit a claim to have your HSA pay? It says I should wait for explanation of benefits, then submit the payment - can I do that with the HSA debit card? Is there some paperwork involved if you can't do it through the debit card?