Hearthstone

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CalebRockeT

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2003
1,142
13
81
In addition to what I already mentioned in the conn thread, new reveals are coming. next up is a pally 5/4/4 that gives every minion in your hand +1/+1 and the end of each turn.

Oh my... Emperor Mistcaller seems fun and well balanced. :\
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,819
953
126
Got the quest to play 50 Shaman cards. In the Brawl evolve gives you minions without the 1/1. I think its meant to be.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
Got the quest to play 50 Shaman cards. In the Brawl evolve gives you minions without the 1/1. I think its meant to be.

Yeah, but you don't have enough "shaman cards" to make a deck that is playable (you have about 6-8 class cards worth using). You need deathrattle+resummon mechanics and/or a LOT of card draw.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
Haven't played any ranked in ages, did play the 1/1 minion brawl a bit though. Finally decided to rank up for the month because I might not get any time later. I'm using Midrange Shaman (I know I know..., but I actually used to play the deck a lot even when it used to suck), win streaked to rank 14 and had two back to back games against a Miracle Rogue where I sniped the guys stealthed Auctioneer with a Rag both times, poor guy. He insta conceded the 2nd game.

How much gold do you guys have saved up so far for the next set? I'm only at around 2500 yet. Don't have much dust either, I spent it all crafting some missing GvG legendaries. I'm also liking the new quests a lot. Much more fun to play gimmicky decks on Casual now.
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
I want to say I have about 11000 or so gold saved up. I used up a lot of my dust picking up a few legendaries that I was simply missing (I think I only have ~2400 dust). I am probably pretty good with getting around 100 or so packs for an expansion like this (it should get me all the rares, a few ultras, and a couple legendaries... I guess if I get as lucky as I did on the last expansion, I would probably get 6-7 legendaries, but I know I was lucky).
 

lupi

Lifer
Apr 8, 2001
32,539
260
126
Have been getting up to 15 last couple of months mainly for the gold cards and lack of desire to waste the time needed to go further. have about 10k gold and 6k dust. still have enough legs missing in the base set that I could blow through that if I wanted to.

With the development commenting that the mighty rank 17 was the 50% split for the player base and that even they don't like how it's turned out, will be interesting to see what changes they come up with.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Have been getting up to 15 last couple of months mainly for the gold cards and lack of desire to waste the time needed to go further. have about 10k gold and 6k dust. still have enough legs missing in the base set that I could blow through that if I wanted to.

With the development commenting that the mighty rank 17 was the 50% split for the player base and that even they don't like how it's turned out, will be interesting to see what changes they come up with.

I basically go to 15 and stop. If I'm on a streak I'll go until I lose. Last month reach 11 before I lost.

I have jack crap still for gold/dust as I spend it all every chance I get. Mainly because I still haven't spent a dime on this game. Heck just the other day I finally saved up enough to craft another legendary. Finally Alexstraza for me.

Then again I play to complete a quest or two when I can and rarely do more than that beyond the brawl. I do try to play every day and don't lose out on quests at least. Very rarely I get the chance to play enough to earn the 100 gold from winning 30 games in a day. I think I've had enough time for that basically once in the last 6 months.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
30 wins in a day simply takes too long. I reached the 100 gold limit once with Handlock during the Patron era when I was sitting around Ranks 2-1 and wanted to get legend. Unfortunately the season ended and I was still 2-3 wins away.

Here's hoping I'm luckier with the next set packs than Old Gods. I think I basically picked up the legendaries you get after a certain number of packs, and I got a bunch of duplicates at that. I did eventually get a Golden Fandral. I also had enough dust from before that I crafted every single missing card in Old Gods and TGT. Even then I had dust left so I crafted a golden C'thun to use it all up . I don't have any dust this time around though.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,819
953
126
I got about 5K in gold. Got a bunch of dust too. I just play enough to finish quests now and get a win from brawl. HS has lost its appeal for me.
 

CalebRockeT

Golden Member
Jul 14, 2003
1,142
13
81
I got about 5K in gold. Got a bunch of dust too. I just play enough to finish quests now and get a win from brawl. HS has lost its appeal for me.

I'm pretty much the same. 7k gold, 9k dust. There are plenty of classic Legendary cards that I don't have that I'd like to (Rag, Ysera, Alex, Grom, Antonidas, etc), but I can't bring myself to spend the dust to craft them.

I play the game only to complete quests and get the free card pack from the weekly brawls. I don't really enjoy it. I do it out of some weird sense of obligation. Sad times.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
I personally just play on my toilet breaks because shitty games should only be played on the shitter. It's not a fun game. It would be fun if the outcome of every game was actually decided by skill and not RNG every single time. I still sorta believe that blizzard has code that "weights" the RNG factor in favor of those that spend more money on the game. Wouldn't be hard to code for at all.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
It's not a fun game.

If you don't find it fun, why bother with it, there's plenty of other card games out now. I play it a lot less than I used to, but I still find it fun to build wacky decks and try them out on both casual and ranked and see how far I can take them.

I still sorta believe that blizzard has code that "weights" the RNG factor in favor of those that spend more money on the game. Wouldn't be hard to code for at all.

Whattttt... Blizzard would have to be the stupidest company in gaming history to even try to do such a thing.
 

fastamdman

Golden Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,335
70
91
I personally just play on my toilet breaks because shitty games should only be played on the shitter. It's not a fun game. It would be fun if the outcome of every game was actually decided by skill and not RNG every single time. I still sorta believe that blizzard has code that "weights" the RNG factor in favor of those that spend more money on the game. Wouldn't be hard to code for at all.

That would completely ruin competitive play, im talking about tournament level play. Blizzcon for example where they had over a million dollar prize pool. There is no way they would code the game based off what people spent. You say it wouldn't be that hard, but it actually would. There would have to be so many values that were set based on the amount people have paid, whether you are talking about the top decks they get from card draw, or whether arcane missiles or other random things clear the board. That is absolutely ludicrous. Instead of thinking its a crappy game because you lose occasionally, why don't you actually build better decks and learn proper game play mechanics? There are plenty of sites that can help you build decks, for example hearthpwn.com Not everyone is going to enjoy the game, but to say blizzard, a multi billion dollar company, is going to code a free to play game, specifically to give an edge, even slight, to people who buy card packs, is just stupid.
 

fastamdman

Golden Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,335
70
91
I'm pretty much the same. 7k gold, 9k dust. There are plenty of classic Legendary cards that I don't have that I'd like to (Rag, Ysera, Alex, Grom, Antonidas, etc), but I can't bring myself to spend the dust to craft them.

I play the game only to complete quests and get the free card pack from the weekly brawls. I don't really enjoy it. I do it out of some weird sense of obligation. Sad times.

Those are some major cards you are missing. I think something a lot of players haven't "found" so to speak is a few key decks that they just absolutely love playing. Whether it be control warrior, freeze mage, control mage, hell even dragon priest. Whatever you enjoy playing the most, you should try to build your deck around that. Decks that you enjoy playing, will keep you playing longer. I think they did screw up a bit with a few of the quests lately though. For example playing 75 murlocs, I found myself playing murloc paladin, as were many, over and over and that is a deck that I personally do not enjoy playing. But other people love that deck. I would try crafting some of those legendary cards though if you enjoy those classes. A LOT of decks use those cards and they are absolutely game changing.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
That would completely ruin competitive play, im talking about tournament level play. Blizzcon for example where they had over a million dollar prize pool. There is no way they would code the game based off what people spent. You say it wouldn't be that hard, but it actually would. There would have to be so many values that were set based on the amount people have paid, whether you are talking about the top decks they get from card draw, or whether arcane missiles or other random things clear the board. That is absolutely ludicrous. Instead of thinking its a crappy game because you lose occasionally, why don't you actually build better decks and learn proper game play mechanics? There are plenty of sites that can help you build decks, for example hearthpwn.com Not everyone is going to enjoy the game, but to say blizzard, a multi billion dollar company, is going to code a free to play game, specifically to give an edge, even slight, to people who buy card packs, is just stupid.


LOL, it's not like it couldn't be turned off for competitive play mode. Usually those tournaments are done with a different server and account setup entirely for people in some of those tournaments. On top of that, most people in just random run tournaments wouldn't even notice a difference. The vast majority of players attracted to tournament play are going to be players who have spent money.

Also netdecks are one thing. Fucked up RNG constantly is another. Last weeks brawl I went 6 times in almost in a row where I had a druid do a first turn kill on me before I got to do anything. Do you know the fucking odds of that happening once let alone 6 times in a very short time spawn in a single night?

For those wondering it was innervate + alex + rag + faceless = dead on turn 1.

That's the kind of shit I see constantly and has nothing to do with deck building. It's that kind of screwed up shit that happens far more than 50% of the time to me which is why even theorized what I did in my previous post. I also stopped use deck tracker software and playing on my PC because it was depressing constantly looking at the stats.
 
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Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,097
461
126
Yeah, I didn't think of that one either... I did have rag and alex in that brawl deck, but I also had a lot of deathrattles/buff cards and seemed to win all the times I played it (only played it first day and even then only 4 matches).
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Lol, wish I would have thought about that.

How is it no one else saw that but me and I ran into 6 people that got it off in the first turn in the span of about 3 hours of play time last week. I saw a few dozen more try it and not pull it off properly though.

Mostly though I play as a shaman against other shamans. Evolve was pretty damn powerful in that brawl.
 

JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
11,819
953
126
Humble has been complaining about RNG from the start of the game. He seems to have really bad luck.
 

HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Yeah anecdotes aren't convincing me Blizz is rigging the game via RNG.

Wouldn't be hard to do it. I'm not saying I have proof, just that it wouldn't be hard for them to code it. It kind of makes me wonder why they don't release any of their statistics for gameplay. They record every game. If every player had access to their stats it wouldn't be hard to collate the data to find if there was a pattern in paying versus non paying player win rates.

You might say, well it's obvious the paying customers would win more because they have better cards, but the game already matches card count to a degree. If you have less of a card count you tend not to be matched up against people with every card and best possible net decks all the time. When I play my wife's account, who rarely plays, she doesn't get matched up to people at all with perfect net decks all the time. I'm just saying it's a possibility and wouldn't be hard to implement and very hard to prove without full stats released by Blizz.
 

fastamdman

Golden Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,335
70
91
Do you know a lot about coding? You are saying that it wouldn't be hard to code something for EVERYONE that is then randomly turned off....what based on wifi location? based on what? When these tournaments are ran, which are all over the united states, not just blizzcon. They aren't going to say "oh wait, HumblePie si going to compete today at 2pm in Oregon, lets go ahead and turn on or off his bad luck rng coding". Do you know how ridiculous that sounds for a fortune 500 company to do, let alone how much time it would take to do. It would be physically impossible for them to monitor all of the people that go to tournaments and then push hotfixes on/off constantly while they were there. What happens if they don't restart there phone or tablet when they get to the tournament? The code wouldn't be received. Not everything is controlled server side, there is client side as well, which clearly as you stated needs to be involved because it can be coded for EVERYONE.

They do release statistics of gameplay, go look at it over on hearthstone, they talk about different aspects all of the time. Also, you clearly have NO idea how this game is coded at all. Whether you have every single card in the deck, or you only have the bare minimum basic cards, you can be matched up together. I know because I have been on BOTH ENDS of that spectrum. I have played against people with only basic/standard cards and I have had every card in the game. I've also swapped over to EU for a fresh account and had only the basic cards, where as the first person I played against dropped a ton of legendaries on me.

The ranking system disregards what you have card wise, how many packs you bought, how many you didn't buy. It simply goes off of your actual rank and your win loss ratio. It randomly finds an opponent that is as close to you in that bracket as possible. The only time it's slightly unfair, is in levels that you will never see, aka Legend, however if you can make it to legend than all is fair regardless in my opinion. You will see it a lot though that a Legend player plays a rank 1 player, instead of another legend player however. That is the only part that I feel needs to be adjusted a bit, but it's tough to find matches at certain times for certain regions.

The difference I think you are struggling with here is that you basically only play the most random part of hearthstone, aka the brawls. I would bet almost everything that you didn't do this weeks brawl though because it's for competitive players. Just because you are putting all of this time into the random small subsection of the game, doesn't mean that is what the game actually was designed for. It's supposed to be a fun little side thing, almost like a quick side quest when you are bored. The main point of hearthstone is the actual ranking system for both standard and wild. Once you reach whatever level you are capable of, you will hover around that point until you learn things that will actually make you progress further in the game. There is almost always something new that you can learn if you watch matches. A lot of it is the same old same old, but you do pick up a few things here and there and when you translate that game play and style into your actual game play, you will increase in ranking and continue up. The more you play ranked, the less you will see RNG stone. Ragnaros will always be RNG and nothing will change that, that is how the card was designed. Arcane missles and flamewaker will do it as well, that is how they were designed and it's part of there board clear / catch up mechanics. RNG can be annoying sometimes, but I assure you it's 100% random. There is no way blizzard would sit there and code for weeks and weeks for each and every individual account whether rng should be good or bad for them and then monitor it and switch it when they feel necessary. People that think like this just amaze me.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
Until HumblePie posts some proof of his wild claims, I'll continue to believe that he's just making stuff up. If I had this bad RNG, I'd be streaming Hearthstone on Twitch and pulling in heaps of money. He's previously claimed to run into hacks which let you see opponent's hand, getting wisp 15 times in a row in arena, getting coin from mind vision 30 times in a row, etc, etc. These are the ones I remember, he's probably said some other stuff.

While it's possible for Blizzard to manipulate RNG since it's all server side and that type of code doesn't run client side, why the hell would they.


Edit: Blizzard does initially match new players with only new players but that's only for the first ten or so games. After that it's solely by your rank and after legend by your MMR. If as a brand new player you've run into an opponent with lots of legendaries, it's probable that they spent money on packs and/or are only new to ranked but have been playing casual/arena previously.
 
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HumblePie

Lifer
Oct 30, 2000
14,665
440
126
Do you know a lot about coding? You are saying that it wouldn't be hard to code something for EVERYONE that is then randomly turned off....what based on wifi location? based on what? When these tournaments are ran, which are all over the united states, not just blizzcon. They aren't going to say "oh wait, HumblePie si going to compete today at 2pm in Oregon, lets go ahead and turn on or off his bad luck rng coding". Do you know how ridiculous that sounds for a fortune 500 company to do, let alone how much time it would take to do. It would be physically impossible for them to monitor all of the people that go to tournaments and then push hotfixes on/off constantly while they were there. What happens if they don't restart there phone or tablet when they get to the tournament? The code wouldn't be received. Not everything is controlled server side, there is client side as well, which clearly as you stated needs to be involved because it can be coded for EVERYONE.

They do release statistics of gameplay, go look at it over on hearthstone, they talk about different aspects all of the time. Also, you clearly have NO idea how this game is coded at all. Whether you have every single card in the deck, or you only have the bare minimum basic cards, you can be matched up together. I know because I have been on BOTH ENDS of that spectrum. I have played against people with only basic/standard cards and I have had every card in the game. I've also swapped over to EU for a fresh account and had only the basic cards, where as the first person I played against dropped a ton of legendaries on me.

The ranking system disregards what you have card wise, how many packs you bought, how many you didn't buy. It simply goes off of your actual rank and your win loss ratio. It randomly finds an opponent that is as close to you in that bracket as possible. The only time it's slightly unfair, is in levels that you will never see, aka Legend, however if you can make it to legend than all is fair regardless in my opinion. You will see it a lot though that a Legend player plays a rank 1 player, instead of another legend player however. That is the only part that I feel needs to be adjusted a bit, but it's tough to find matches at certain times for certain regions.

The difference I think you are struggling with here is that you basically only play the most random part of hearthstone, aka the brawls. I would bet almost everything that you didn't do this weeks brawl though because it's for competitive players. Just because you are putting all of this time into the random small subsection of the game, doesn't mean that is what the game actually was designed for. It's supposed to be a fun little side thing, almost like a quick side quest when you are bored. The main point of hearthstone is the actual ranking system for both standard and wild. Once you reach whatever level you are capable of, you will hover around that point until you learn things that will actually make you progress further in the game. There is almost always something new that you can learn if you watch matches. A lot of it is the same old same old, but you do pick up a few things here and there and when you translate that game play and style into your actual game play, you will increase in ranking and continue up. The more you play ranked, the less you will see RNG stone. Ragnaros will always be RNG and nothing will change that, that is how the card was designed. Arcane missles and flamewaker will do it as well, that is how they were designed and it's part of there board clear / catch up mechanics. RNG can be annoying sometimes, but I assure you it's 100% random. There is no way blizzard would sit there and code for weeks and weeks for each and every individual account whether rng should be good or bad for them and then monitor it and switch it when they feel necessary. People that think like this just amaze me.


I do know something of coding being a professional developer for 20 years now.

Again, it wouldn't be hard to have a small offset applied to various RNG scenarios that adds "weight" or favor to the person that has spent money above a certain threshold. Not a problem at all. Would be virtually undetectable, and the point of such code would be to incentivize people to spend more money thinking that is all they need to do to "win" more in the game. It can be as simple as providing a more natural "ramp" of cards to play for the person that pays more often.

The brawls tend to be the few times I win more often than not when they aren't complete RNG fiasco's. If they take a creative deck building scenario to work with a specific set of NON rng rules I typically dominate right from the get go in brawls. I play those types of brawls for the first 2 days and tend to rack up 30+ wins real fast each day. Why? Because the skill is in the deck building for that rule. I have the most fun in those brawls.

When it's complete RNG I play until I win once and then stop. There isn't any point in playing completely random games like that as they aren't fun.

Also, it wouldn't take much code work at all to do weighting on RNG factors in the game. I'm not talking shit like Ragnaros, or Arcane missiles. I'm specifically talking things like card draw. That is the single biggest RNG factor to winning just about any game in Hearthstone. You get the proper card draw = more likely to win versus the opponent not getting good card draw. There could be some weighting factor on a few other cards, but that isn't needed to do so.

I'm not saying they ARE doing that, just that in my experience from myself and circle of friends whom I've been able to gather limit data sets from over the past year or so, I was starting to come up with this hypothesis since it fits what I was seeing. The friends I have that spent money tend to have nicer mana curve draws more often, and those that don't spend money have less than optimal draw curves more often. That was really the specific RNG factor I was able to look at and compare with to some degree. Again, I only have a very small sample size and it's mostly anecdotal experience, which is why I am not "accusing" blizzard of actually doing this.
 
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