Hearthstone

[Fallen Kell]

Naxx Mage Secret deck is fun and doesn't require too many legendaries

think the one I play with has Kel'Thuzad and Bloodmage Thalnos and probably Loatheb

Yeah, I have been debating that deck more and more. I only play with 1 secret and have the 3/3 that give +2/2 each turn you have a secret that is unrevealed (the 1 secret I have is the prevent character from dying this turn when you receive fatal damage, in other words the one that you keep out there all game unless you fight a hunter with flare).

 

[HumblePie]

Yeah, I have been debating that deck more and more. I only play with 1 secret and have the 3/3 that give +2/2 each turn you have a secret that is unrevealed (the 1 secret I have is the prevent character from dying this turn when you receive fatal damage, in other words the one that you keep out there all game unless you fight a hunter with flare).

Iceblock and Arcanist.

It's okay, but still requires a bunch of rares and epics to pull off right.

Still, very few decks are all that great on common cards mostly with a sprinkling of rares or better. Actually I don't think there is really any at this point.

 

[Wardawg1001]

Auchenai interactions are fun. I MC tech'd one yesterday as Pally and holy lighted the priest to the face for the kill. Felt pretty satisfying.

Hah, yea Auchenai can pull off some crazy shit.

I remember watching a tourny a while ago, it was Amaz (a very famous Priest streamer for those who don't know him) vs someone else. Both players were low on HP. Amaz had an Auchenai on the board, the opponent had a couple of cards and a big taunt (Ancient of War maybe, or Druid of the Claw in taunt form). Opponent was threatening lethal and Amaz had nothing in his hand that could direct kill his opponent or even clear enough of the board to stop lethal. So he casts a desperation thoughtsteal and it pulls an Ancient of Lore. Because of the Auchenai, the Ancient of Lore +5 healing turns into a 5 damage nuke and kill his opponent. Was one of the most epic plays I've seen.

 

[Wardawg1001]

I'm not sure I buy this. There are tons of competitive decks that only use a few high end cards. Legend caliber Zoo and Hunter decks can be crafted from scratch for under 1500 dust. There are Priest and Mage decks that have ~2 legendaries in them. Rogue gets by with just Thalnos and Lotheb now. Shaman and Druid aren't legendary heavy, although their epics are required. It's pretty much just Warrior, Pally, and Handlock decks that use 10k+ dust. I mean I guess you could make the argument that a lot of the decks use different ones so it's hard to have enough to play all the decks. But even then there are a few that translate really well into several decks.

I've been pretty lucky with packs lately, but the legendary drop rate still looks like ~5% for me. Although this weekend I opened 15 packs and got 4 legendaries, 3 epics, and 5 golds which I wasn't complaining about haha.

I second this opinion. I really don't think that the current meta really requires a lot of Legendaries to be competitive. Most of the legendaries you do you see are common to a vast majority of decks. I'd break it down like this:

Frequently seen in competitive decks:
Loatheb
Sylvanas Windrunner
Ragnaros the Firelord

The above 3 are staples of a vast majority of competitive decks. Loatheb and Sylvannas in particular, largely due to their extremely unique effects, and the difficulty required to play around them.

Commonly seen in competitive decks:
Alexstrasza
The Black Knight
Cairne Bloodhoof
Ysera

Outside of Control Warrior, you will probably never see all 7 of the above legendaries in any single deck.

Occasionally seen in competitive decks:
Bloodmage Thalnos
Harrison Jones
Leeroy Jenkins (there has been a massive falloff in his usage since the nerf, but he's still out there in a few hyper aggressive decks)
Kel'Thuzad

This set of legendaries appear in a fair number of decks, but due to the current meta and how difficult it is to get the most out of them, they are pretty rare.

See only in very niche decks
Illidan Stormrage (starting to see some usage in demon based Warlock decks since the introduction of Voidcaller)
King Mukla (seen only in hyper-aggressive Hunter/Rogue decks, and even then its pretty rare)
Malygos (starting to see some usage as a new version of the 'Miracle Rogue' deck, after the nerf to Leeroy)
Baron Rivendare (rarely seen, but some people are trying to experiment with him in various Deathrattle decks - no real success yet)
Feugen/Stalagg (similar to Rivendare, people are trying to figure out how to get use out of this combo, but as of yet there's been no real success)

This set of legendaries has seen essentially no real success in competitive play. You'll see a decent amount of them on the ladder as people experiment with them, but only in the lower ranks, because they just aren't very good, or people haven't figured out how to use them properly. They certainly aren't requirements for putting together a 'good' deck.

Class Legendaries:
Al'Akir the Windlord - This is the staple card of most high level Shaman decks, it will be in almost every one, but due to Reincarnate and all of the new deathrattle cards, there are plenty of new Shaman decks coming out that don't require him
Archmage Antonidas - Starting to see some use in Freeze Mage and Secret Mage decks, but overall its still near the bottom of the list in terms of 'must have' legendaries)
Cenarius - outside of late game heavy ramp druid, he is absolutely unnecessary in any deck
Edwin VanCleef - You'll see him in both of the popular Rogue decks (Backspace, Miracle), but he is not the cornerstone must-have card of either
Grommash Hellscream - A long time staple in the Control Warrior deck, but that deck already requires 6-7 other legendaries anyways, so you shouldn't even be looking at Grommash until you've amassed quite a lot of legendaries or dust
King Krush - Meh. Never has, and barring some balance changes, never will be required for any deck.
Lord Jaraxxus - After the Leeroy nerf, Jaraxxus has been seeing a lot more play in Handlock decks, as well as some demon-based decks (after the introduction of Voidcaller). Handlock fortunately is pretty light on Legendary cards though anyway, and Jaraxxus is certainly not a make-or-break card for the deck.
Prophet Velen - Widely considered one of the weakest class-based legendaries, it has never really seen wide spread use out outside of very gimmicky decks.
Tirion Fording - An absolute staple of the Control Paladin, but not necessary for aggro or mid-range Paladin decks.


What really matters in all of this though are the first two sets:

Loatheb
Sylvanas Windrunner
Ragnaros the Firelord
Alexstrasza
The Black Knight
Cairne Bloodhoof
Ysera

With just a few of these 7 legendaries, you can make a multitude of high level competitive decks. And Loatheb is even free (assuming you beat the Naxx wings)! The only competitive deck that actually requires all of these is Control Warrior. With just 2-3 of these you can make almost any high level deck out there (occasionally you'll need your class legendary as well). And much of the time when you are trying to make a deck where you are missing just one of these legendaries, there is usually a similar non-legendary out there that you can replace it with without losing much power.

 

[EDUSAN]

Another legendary that was always considered to be good but has always struggle to get into decks and i dont see being played nowadays is Bardon Geddon. I used to have it like a counter to hunters in my CW but i also dropped him

 

[Wardawg1001]

Still, very few decks are all that great on common cards mostly with a sprinkling of rares or better. Actually I don't think there is really any at this point.

Zero Legendary:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/44220-kolentos-rank-1-legend-na-eu-hunter-deck
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/105755-the-perfect-zoo-rank-6-legend-video-update-o
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/82037-legendary-bloodlust-shaman
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/105143-spark-death-trap-s7

1 to 2 Legendary:
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/57818-tsafys-top-100-legend-f2p-shammy
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/19152-pressure-rogue
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/104164-9-4-priest-china
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/65906-new-order-legend-october-update
http://www.hearthpwn.com/decks/104460-crusher-handmage-legendary

These are just examples of highly rated decks that the creators have (claimed) to have taken to Legendary rank. Even the decks under the '1-2 legendary' section, usually 1 of the Legendaries is Loatheb, which is of course free.

There are also streamers out there (Trump mostly, but there are others) that are dedicating time towards building and teaching decks that are 'F2P'. As in, the cards necessary to build these decks are made up entirely of basic or free class cards, with only a few rares/epics thrown in which can be obtained rather quickly just by normal play.

Trump himself just recently entered a tournament in which he used a 'F2P' account to make his entire decklist. As in, it was not his normal account where he has gathered almost every card under the stun, but an alternate account where he has spent literally zero money on. He did not do very well in the tournament, but that's not a surprise considering he was playing against some of the best players in the world who were putting forth their best possible decks.

 

[Wardawg1001]

Another legendary that was always considered to be good but has always struggle to get into decks and i dont see being played nowadays is Bardon Geddon. I used to have it like a counter to hunters in my CW but i also dropped him

Baron Geddon sort of fell out of usage when Shaman became less and less viable at high levels. He's too slow against decks like Zoo, backspace rogue, aggro hunter, and even aggro mage. The new Naxx cards made it even worse with all those deathrattles that you don't want to set off (or at least you want to control when they proc) - Nerubian Egg, Haunted Creeper, Mad Scientist, etc.

That said, things may be changing. Shaman has long been an underdog in the competitive scene, but the last couple of tournaments I've watched it has actually been doing quite well, so the Baron may start to see a bit of a comeback in some decks.

 

[Vivendi]

Just played against a Shaman deck full of legenderies. First legendary he played was Baron Rivendare, which was useless because at that point he had no minions with deathrattle out and was easily removed in 1 turn.
2nd legendary played was Feugen.
3rd legendary: Illidan Stormrage
4th: Leeroy
5th: Ragnaros
6th: Loatheb
7th: Hogger
8th and last one played: Cairne
I had board control the whole time and easily removed all of them.

Eventually I used a thoughtsteal and grabbed Al'Akir the Windwalker AND Lorewalker Cho. I played both the next turn and he insta quit This is why I love priest...

Who knows what other legendaries he still had... 8 played against me plus the two I grabbed and atleast Stalagg since he played Feugen. Probably had Maexxna and Kel'thuzad in there somewhere...
Just goes to show though that just slapping legendaries together won't make a deck better.

 

[Wardawg1001]

Yeah, I have been debating that deck more and more. I only play with 1 secret and have the 3/3 that give +2/2 each turn you have a secret that is unrevealed (the 1 secret I have is the prevent character from dying this turn when you receive fatal damage, in other words the one that you keep out there all game unless you fight a hunter with flare).

This is really just too gimmicky IMO. Occasionally you'll get some really good value out of it since the opponent can't trigger your secret, but there are a ton of ways to neutralize the Arcanist. Silence (Druid of the Grove, Priest Silence, Ironbeak Owl, Spellbreaker), Flare, Freezing Trap, Hunters Mark, Kill Command, Fireball, Polymorph, Equality combos, Humility/Kodo combo, Shadow Word: Death, Assassinate (granted this isn't a card most rogues run), Sap, Lava Burst, Earth Shock, Hex, Reincarnate, Siphon Soul, Shield Slam, Execute, Big Game Hunter, etc.

Now granted, I've just named off basically every way to kill off a dangerous minion. But you also have to consider that the Arcanist is a two card play that costs 7 mana - 4 to play the Arcanist, 3 to play the secret. You can't play the Arcanist fist since he's very vulnerable just sitting out there as a 3/3. If you play the Ice Block on turn 3, you've used an entire turn up for no value (a secret that won't pop until the very end of the game), and given a huge tempo advantage to your opponent. Then you follow it up with the Arcanist on turn 4, which immediately becomes a 5/5 before your opponent can act, but he had an entire turn 3 in which you did nothing and now he has 4 mana of his own to react to that 5/5. Now suppose that he does have a good answer to your 5/5 Arcanist - you've lost board control and you're sitting on a secret that won't even be any use at all until you've probably already lost the game.

Now this all changes a little bit if you've got Mad Scientists or Kirin Tor's. Drawing the Ice Block off the Mad Scientist turns it into a huge tempo swing in your favor. But you said you only have 1 secret in your whole deck, the Ice Block. Running two Mad Scientists is sort of out of the question, so if we assume you run only 1, then your chances of drawing the Mad Scientist in your opening hand is just as likely as the Ice Block in your opening hand. The moment you draw that Ice Block before you draw the Mad Scientist gets killed, he has essentially become a wasted card.

Kirin Tor could also make this combo a pretty potent swing in your favor, but again the odds are highly against you. You'd need to have both the Kirin Tor, the Ice Block, AND the Arcanist all in your hand to make any use of the combo, and you'd need them all pretty early. The ideal situation would be turn 3 Kirin Tor + Ice Block, followed by turn 4 Arcanist. This would be a pretty damn good setup, but it won't happen often. What will happen most of the time is that you'll be stuck with 1-2 dead cards in your hand most of the time, and by the time you get the combo off that Arcanist will be dealt with as easily as a Yeti or Senjin or any other 4-drop.

 

[Wardawg1001]

Just played against a Shaman deck full of legenderies. First legendary he played was Baron Rivendare, which was useless because at that point he had no minions with deathrattle out and was easily removed in 1 turn.
2nd legendary played was Feugen.
3rd legendary: Illidan Stormrage
4th: Leeroy
5th: Ragnaros
6th: Loatheb
7th: Hogger
8th and last one played: Cairne
I had board control the whole time and easily removed all of them.

Eventually I used a thoughtsteal and grabbed Al'Akir the Windwalker AND Lorewalker Cho. I played both the next turn and he insta quit This is why I love priest...

Who knows what other legendaries he still had... 8 played against me plus the two I grabbed and atleast Stalagg since he played Feugen. Probably had Maexxna and Kel'thuzad in there somewhere...
Just goes to show though that just slapping legendaries together won't make a deck better.

And this is exactly why so many high level competitive decks DON'T run that many Legendary cards. They are very similar to Epic cards, in that they can be extremely powerful, but only when used within a very specific overall strategy. If you look at most Legendary cards, they usually provide poor overall stats compared to their mana cost. It's their special effects that make them so strong, and if don't build around taking advantage of those special effects, then all you've really made is just a weak deck with a lot of orange cards in it.

 

[Aikouka]

Sylvanas Windrunner
Cairne Bloodhoof
Ysera

Yeah, after I dusted Leeroy, I have around 4000 dust, and I've been debating what I want to get. I was leaning more toward Sylvanas and Cairne since they're both very potent cards that can help boost my mid or late game a bit.

 

[Firsttime]

They're a really good "combo" of cards you see in a lot of decks together that gives any board mid game presence and draws silences to give your late game cards sticking power. You can take pretty much any deck, add Sylvanas and it's better. Probably the only legendary card you can say that for.

 

[JTsyo]

Hah, yea Auchenai can pull off some crazy shit.

I remember watching a tourny a while ago, it was Amaz (a very famous Priest streamer for those who don't know him) vs someone else. Both players were low on HP. Amaz had an Auchenai on the board, the opponent had a couple of cards and a big taunt (Ancient of War maybe, or Druid of the Claw in taunt form). Opponent was threatening lethal and Amaz had nothing in his hand that could direct kill his opponent or even clear enough of the board to stop lethal. So he casts a desperation thoughtsteal and it pulls an Ancient of Lore. Because of the Auchenai, the Ancient of Lore +5 healing turns into a 5 damage nuke and kill his opponent. Was one of the most epic plays I've seen.

Had a fail by a player the other day with Auchenai. He played Auchenai and 2 zombie chows. Then next turn he attacked with the ZCs and then cast Circle of healing to try to strike with 10 dmg for lethal. But since he had played Auchenai first, it died first and then the ZCs healed me for 10. He conceded after that.

 

[Fallen Kell]

They're a really good "combo" of cards you see in a lot of decks together that gives any board mid game presence and draws silences to give your late game cards sticking power. You can take pretty much any deck, add Sylvanas and it's better. Probably the only legendary card you can say that for.

You can say it to Rag as well... Rag always makes a deck better. It is very rarely a bad play (only time it is a bad play is when you are facing a zoo and don't have a taunt out, then a taunt or board wipe is a better play). Especially if you have faceless manips in your deck/hand.

 

[HumblePie]

FFS this game is annoying sometimes as hell. Why oh why does the game like to always give me the highest mana costing cards in my deck in my opening hand practically all the time? It's seriously in the 90+% of of the time. Just did an arena with a mage. Got a pyroblast to use. Guess what? Opening hand all 5 games. 3 times it was given to me after I dumped other high casting cost cards I couldn't use early. 4th time I got it, dumped it, and got it right back. Ugh. Last time I didn't have it, it wasn't a replacement, but it was the first card on the first "draw" I had. Basically stuck with a card I can't use for 9 rounds and possibly longer since that card is dead weight and I at a disadvantage. Not to mention the 3 I lost I still drew all my high cards. FFS, I had 20 cards at 4 mana or less. Do I open with cards in the 1-4 casting range? NOOOO. I damn near always get some combination of the other 10 cards. Which mostly means twiddling my thumbs while I get crushed.

 

[Kev]

FFS this game is annoying sometimes as hell. Why oh why does the game like to always give me the highest mana costing cards in my deck in my opening hand practically all the time? It's seriously in the 90+% of of the time. Just did an arena with a mage. Got a pyroblast to use. Guess what? Opening hand all 5 games. 3 times it was given to me after I dumped other high casting cost cards I couldn't use early. 4th time I got it, dumped it, and got it right back. Ugh. Last time I didn't have it, it wasn't a replacement, but it was the first card on the first "draw" I had. Basically stuck with a card I can't use for 9 rounds and possibly longer since that card is dead weight and I at a disadvantage. Not to mention the 3 I lost I still drew all my high cards. FFS, I had 20 cards at 4 mana or less. Do I open with cards in the 1-4 casting range? NOOOO. I damn near always get some combination of the other 10 cards. Which mostly means twiddling my thumbs while I get crushed.

You sure do complain about variance a lot. Perhaps HS isn't the game for you

 

[Vivendi]

Yea successive bad initial hands piss me off but remember everyone goes through the same thing... it's all chance... One of the first packs I opened had Cairne in it. After that I must've opened over 100 packs by now but I've only gotten 2-3 gold cards... no other legendaries yet. Badddd luck but I don't worry too much about it. Sooner or later I'll open some legendaries.

I hope.


On another note:

http://i.imgur.com/Sv2oxBO.jpg :awe::awe:
Plays like this are why I love playing using Priest.

 

[HumblePie]

You sure do complain about variance a lot. Perhaps HS isn't the game for you

Someone out there has to be getting all the good shit since my luck with HS has been mostly piss poor. One of the original reasons I quit the game. Way to RNG in every facet of the game.

 

[Firsttime]

Yea successive bad initial hands piss me off but remember everyone goes through the same thing... it's all chance... One of the first packs I opened had Cairne in it. After that I must've opened over 100 packs by now but I've only gotten 2-3 gold cards... no other legendaries yet. Badddd luck but I don't worry too much about it. Sooner or later I'll open some legendaries.

I hope.


On another note:

http://i.imgur.com/Sv2oxBO.jpg :awe::awe:
Plays like this are why I love playing using Priest.

Lol. As a Paladin player. Screw you.

 

[Kev]

Someone out there has to be getting all the good shit since my luck with HS has been mostly piss poor. One of the original reasons I quit the game. Way to RNG in every facet of the game.

If you're getting frustrated play a priest deck with all the "stealing" cards. It's hilarious but don't expect to win too often. But when you do win, the amount of rage you cause your oppenent makes it all worth it.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Yeah, I have debated making a priest deck that uses the steal minion cards. It works really well against decks that only use big minions where they only get 1 minion on the board each round, but against a zoo it just fails. But I have been debating putting at least 1 or 2 of those cards into my current priest deck.

 

[Coulrophobia]

I was down 3-30 in the arena today and came back for the win! I could hear the cursing coming through the screen lol.

 

[Wardawg1001]

I was down 3-30 in the arena today and came back for the win! I could hear the cursing coming through the screen lol.

Heh, I've come back from 1-30 deficits couple of times. Usually the opponent just gets too greedy, goes face too much which leaves me to open to making extremely high value trades. It's quite satisfying when you pull it off, but I've had it happen to me as well and it is soul crushing.

Was playing a mage deck a few days ago against a Paladin, I brought him down to 1 hp, so it was lethal next turn unless he healed. Not only does he drop a holy light, but a damn Sunwalker in the same turn. Now I'm about 15 cards through my deck, and I know I have a Fireball and two Frostbolts in there somewhere, so I'm just taking out the taunts and sending everything else to face. Then he proceeds to drop Guardians the next two turns (and note that he is top decking at this point),a Lay on Hands, and more taunts than I can shake a stick at. A few turns later he's above 20 hp, I'm below 15 hp, hes got massive board control, and I never drew any of the nukes that would have let me bypass the taunts to win the game. So frustrating.

 

[Firsttime]

Heh, I've come back from 1-30 deficits couple of times. Usually the opponent just gets too greedy, goes face too much which leaves me to open to making extremely high value trades. It's quite satisfying when you pull it off, but I've had it happen to me as well and it is soul crushing.

Was playing a mage deck a few days ago against a Paladin, I brought him down to 1 hp, so it was lethal next turn unless he healed. Not only does he drop a holy light, but a damn Sunwalker in the same turn. Now I'm about 15 cards through my deck, and I know I have a Fireball and two Frostbolts in there somewhere, so I'm just taking out the taunts and sending everything else to face. Then he proceeds to drop Guardians the next two turns (and note that he is top decking at this point),a Lay on Hands, and more taunts than I can shake a stick at. A few turns later he's above 20 hp, I'm below 15 hp, hes got massive board control, and I never drew any of the nukes that would have let me bypass the taunts to win the game. So frustrating.

I play control Pally almost exclusively in constructed with 1x holy light, 2x guardians, 1x LoN and 1x Earthen Ring and an Alextraza. The number of times that I'm under 15hp before securing board control and healing up to full before winning is pretty ludicrous. I know the feeling though, it's the same feeling you get with low burst classes like Pally, desperately trying to punch through the Handlock's last 5 hp before he can Jaraxxus.

It's pretty tense sometimes knowing that if you can just make turn 8 or 9, or just have a turn where you can drop a guardian without getting punished to hard, you'll win, but you have to sit there and take face damage while you wait. Other times though you flat out lose because you don't draw LoN in your first 15 or something though.

 

[wetech]

Played ranked (20) with my Shaman deck last night against a priest that had an entire gold deck, including 6 legendaries. When I saw the 3-4th gold card, I thought the game was going to be fun. Came down to the wire, but he won 1 turn before I could get leathal.