Hearthstone

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Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
No, people play these decks because they are simple, entertaining, and they make even the least skilled players feel like they are at least 'decent'. I

haha 'entertaining' -- we'll just have to agree to disagree. They are the most straightforward, boring decks possible. They are fully optimized to win as quickly as possible. I can't comprehend how someone can have 'fun' by playing this mindless garbage over and over again.
 

Wardawg1001

Senior member
Sep 4, 2008
653
1
81
haha 'entertaining' -- we'll just have to agree to disagree. They are the most straightforward, boring decks possible. They are fully optimized to win as quickly as possible. I can't comprehend how someone can have 'fun' by playing this mindless garbage over and over again.

I generally don't find ranked very fun at all. I climbed to rank 10 or so as a deathrattle priest a few months ago (could have gone higher, but I got bored and stopped playing the deck), but other than that I probably have never played more than 15-30 ranked games in a single season, and most seasons I don't play more than the mandatory 1-5 games to get my cardback.

My point is, 'entertaining' is relative. I wouldn't be entertained by playing 500 games of zoolock every month for 6 months either. Hell I wouldn't be entertained by playing it at all, I've never even made a zoo deck, even though I have had the cards to make it for months. But this is a competitive game, and a lot of people simply enjoy winning, regardless of whether it was their copy/pasted deck or their skill as a player that actually won the game.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
The rush mage deck seems pretty strong right now, it's really hard to efficiently trade with some cards like tinkertown technician, which is probably the best 3 cost minion now. And Mechwarper is kinda broken in my opinion, the ability is too strong for 2 mana.

The deck which pisses me off the most is the warlock rush deck. Coldlight seer needs a nerf imo to reduce the synergy a bit. As it is, by the time I can usually play AOE, the murlocks have the +2hp and are out of kill range.
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I think Mechwarper stacking with itself and applying to all mechs played in a turn (as opposed to only the first like the pintsized summoner) is a little much, particularly as a 2/3.
 

Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
Freeze mage was big awhile ago, but those games take forever and require actual thought. I haven't seen a freeze mage in forever.

[... and another post...]

They are the most straightforward, boring decks possible. They are fully optimized to win as quickly as possible. I can't comprehend how someone can have 'fun' by playing this mindless garbage over and over again.

So we've established that you don't like aggro decks because they're "mindless"... and we've established you don't like decks that take actual thought... Umm... Trolling?
 
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Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
Getting to legendary is pure dumb luck in this game. Once you are rank 10+ everyone plays decks capable of being in legendary. Everyone plays decently. It's a matter of card draw after that. Either you get the cards and your opponents doesn't which means you win or the opposite and then you lose. People play fast decks at most ranks because it means fast games for either winning or losing. Fast games means more chances for better card draws to climb the ladder with your deck of choice.

This is absolutely not true. At that rank every play matters. You're the same guy that claims you're unlucky in arena because you can't reliably get more than 3 mins but every day there are streamers averaging 7+ wins with similar drafts.

Draw matters, but the game is not entirely RNG. You're fooling yourself if that's what you really think.
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
I think Mechwarper stacking with itself and applying to all mechs played in a turn (as opposed to only the first like the pintsized summoner) is a little much, particularly as a 2/3.

It's effect is also immediate unlike pintsize whose effect starts next turn and she's much easier to take out in the early game because of only 2 hp.

Mechwarper either needs to work on only the 1st mech played or it needs to be 2/2, imo.
 

Kev

Lifer
Dec 17, 2001
16,367
4
81
So we've established that you don't like aggro decks because they're "mindless"... and we've established you don't like decks that take actual thought... Umm... Trolling?

Do you comprehend English? I never said I don't like control decks. I said you don't see freeze mage anymore because the games take forever and require actual thought, which makes it less popular because you can't ladder fast enough.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
after watching a kripparian video i netdecked this druid fatigue deck which is actually pretty fun cause you are always ALMOST about to die

not having much luck though, aggro decks if they have good hands can pretty much screw you up ... buts its a different type of deck and im enjoying losing with it

the deck basically receives damage and has aoe damage all around

2 of the ones that kill everyone and places 2/2 minions
2 starfires (the one that does 2 damage aoe)
2 swipes
2 of the 3/2 minion that deals 1 damage aftereach spell

and then has a ton of healings... 2 antique bots, 2 healing touch, 1 tree of life

and then has cards like 2 vitalize, 2 coldliht oracle, 2 of the new 2/4 cards that each player draws a card, 1 brewmaster and just stays there aoeing everything and healin up until both players run out of cards but because of tried to make favorable card advantages kiling a ton of cards with few cards of your own.

if you add vitalize and their own card draw, they run out of cards before you do and then you start winning because he has no cards left, you probably have 3 or 4 cards and you win just because of that difference

it beats handlock so easily its actualy funny, it struggles against mages that deal a ton of damage all in one turn like frostbolt icelance icelance or to decks that dont draw cards

but well
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
I've had a few matches with these druid mill decks now. First match I lost, mainly because I didn't even know about the druid card which heals everything to full. That card surprised me.

Just yesterday I made a hunter deck to quickly finish a quest and my first match was against a mill druid. Too easy to beat.

The thing is, the opponent knows as soon as that coldlight oracle or the kill+2draw comes out that what type of deck this is. After that, it's pretty easy to counter as long as you play smart.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
well.... this druid deck is a fatigue deck not a mill deck

it just holds until both player ran out of cards, its not like its actively filling your hand with cards

the more cards you play, the better, it will do something like... wild pyro swype or wild pyro starfire and stall the whole game

when you are out of cards it will start throwing oracles and naturalizes

or that is the idea at least....
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I was annoyed to find yesterday that you can't actually force someone to overdraw with a Fel Reaver. I guess it makes sense reading the text of the card, but it's not what I expected. Had it overdrawn them, it would have been a win lol.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
its actually a well phrased text in the fel reaver

it actually says "remove the top 3 cards". if you dont have cards you cant remove them

i feel its a good idea how they did it, drawing cards whould be weird in that card, it would be a win card when both players are topdecking, but it would be almost a dead sentence when you are out of cards (well almost is now, but you could win attacking 1 or 2 times with it)
 
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Concillian

Diamond Member
May 26, 2004
3,751
8
81
I played a good deal of the druid fatigue deck. It's pretty weak to aggro. It's pretty good against control because people don't know it's a mill deck until it's too late... unless you play it REALLY badly and coldlight oracle on turn 3 or something. Don't mill them until they voluntarily use draw.

Now when I play other classes, I'm hyper aware of what kind of druid I'm playing.

However the deck was pretty weak to aggro. You can beat some hunters and some zoo, but definitely worse than 50/50. Priest has a lot of cabal and madness targets, which can run you out of removal, plus it's often difficult not to telegraph your intentions when they often play cleric turn 1 or 2 and you hero power it.

I think the mage fatigue deck is more consistent against aggro (not frost mage, uses deathlords + duplicate / echo + healing and removal with fatigue as the only real direct damage.)
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
I absolutely hate Alexstrazsa. So many non-aggro matches devolve into "I'm not doing shit until I Alex face and then combo face to win in one turn"
 

Fallen Kell

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
6,140
497
126
1 turn wins is always a way to do it. A hunter made the mistake against my Priest last night, blowing his card deck to create a 22 attack hyena (I triggered a snake trap previous turn, and then he used both his unleash the hounds). Problem was, I simply mind controlled it. He had to waste his second Gladiator Bow attack and his second kill command on a monster he created. I dominated him after that since all his good cards had been used.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
I absolutely hate Alexstrazsa. So many non-aggro matches devolve into "I'm not doing shit until I Alex face and then combo face to win in one turn"

and so many matches against aggro finish when the opponent has 4hp left and the aggro deck is topdecking and the other player plays alexstrasa and gets back to 15... game over
 

darkewaffle

Diamond Member
Oct 7, 2005
8,152
1
81
If an aggro deck lets you get to the point where you can play Alex you've either already gotten very good draws or they're doing it wrong lol

And I agree that it's definitely the best way to finish, basically hijacking them before they expect it, but I dislike how effective and important "burst" is instead of more sustained back and forth.
 

EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
well...nowadays most control decks have ways to stop aggro ... from all the matches i play against aggro and from the ones i lose, very few end before turn 7... alexstrasa is a possibility in most.... but you have to haver her in your hand by turn 9, if you dont draw cards you still have 20 cards on the deck

i play control warrior and i have armorsmithes, fiery war axe, deaths bite, cruel taskmaster, sludge belchers, hero power and shieldmaiden... i can hold quite a bit of damage
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
Lol against a preist player... always play safe.

Ex:

I managed to finish the quest for 100 hero dmg in 1 turn
 

Vivendi

Senior member
Nov 21, 2013
697
37
91
darkewaffle;37074419\ And I agree that it's definitely the best way to finish said:
I agree, and I think this has become more common with the expansions ... this sucks for ppl who are just starting with hearthstone (unlike most of us here on this forium )
 

Wardawg1001

Senior member
Sep 4, 2008
653
1
81
If an aggro deck lets you get to the point where you can play Alex you've either already gotten very good draws or they're doing it wrong lol

And I agree that it's definitely the best way to finish, basically hijacking them before they expect it, but I dislike how effective and important "burst" is instead of more sustained back and forth.

I agree, and I think Blizzard does too. They have taken many measures in the past to remove or at least weaken various one turn kill combos. Warrior used to have numerous OTK combos before the change to Warsong Commander. The increase in the mana cost of Leeroy Jenkins made it useless in most decks (Miracle Rogue and Handlock specifically) - and by useless I simply mean less effective than other means of burst finishers that are still not as powerful as the Leeroy combo finisher used to be.

Overall I feel like the game is a lot less dependent on burst damage from the hand than it used to be. This is a good thing, since there is no strategy in constantly having to play around 20+ damage that your opponent may or may not have sitting in his hand on any given turn. On the other hand, there is so much removal in this game that its nearly impossible to set up any kind of 2-3 turn combos. You can literally never be even slightly confident that a minion you play on your turn will be alive the next turn, even if you play it into an empty board (stealth minions are a minor exception, but even they are susceptible to AOE's and various types of non-targeted damage).

And so we end up with the current meta, which is comprised largely of minion based aggro decks. I think the problem is that there aren't enough ways to punish ultra-aggressive decks. The only viable option essentially is to outlast their initial barrage and wait for them to run out of cards. For zoolock that can be nearly impossible since their hero power lets them draw two cards every turn - after 4-5 turns of that, they've drawn more extra cards than most other decks ever draw in an entire match. For face-hunter you have to not only outlast their initial rush, but you need to do so with a good 20 hp left otherwise they will simply whittle you down over the next few turns with hero powers, weapons, kill commands, and charge minions. Same thing basically against mech mage, as they have arcane intellects to help draw through their deck, so as long as they do 10-15 damage with their initial rush of minions they can easily finish you off with their ridiculous amount of face damage spells. In all cases you are usually lucky to even survive their initial rush, any non-aggro deck generally has a lot of cards that are completely useless until late game, and if you end up drawing even a few of them early in the game you are basically dead in the water.

I don't pretend to know the solution to this. There is already tons of AOE in the game (too much, some might say), so I don't think the answer is to add more and cheaper AOE options. I think taunt minions need an improvement across the board. Right now most minions with taunt are simply not effective enough for their mana cost. Target Dummy, Goldshire Footman, Shieldbearer, and Frostwolf Grunt are all jokes, leaving Annoy-o-tron as the only reasonably useful taunt for 2 or less mana. In the 3 mana range there is almost nothing worth putting in your average deck - deathlord is good against aggro but far too dangerous to ever play against a mid-range or control deck, lil'exorcist also pretty good vs aggro (since they tend to run a lot of deathrattles) but next to worthless against anything else, and every other 3 mana taunt simply has far too weak stats to be worth using. The first 'good' taunt minion comes at 4 mana with Senjin Sheildmaster (and Arcane Nullifier - but only for heavily mech based decks), then Sludge Belcher at 5 mana, and then finally Sunwalker at 6 mana. Outside of a few class specific cards (druid of the claw, king of beasts), this is pretty much all there is in the realm of not-terrible taunt minions. It's just not enough, and most of the time your taunts simply get taken out by a cheap removal spell or simply end up doing a 1-for-1 trade with one of the opponents cheaper minions.
 
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EDUSAN

Golden Member
Apr 4, 2012
1,358
0
0
i just had one of the most stressing matches i ever played

CW vs CW

we played mostly the same cards all the time, and i got lucky with a brawl (1 silenced sludge belcher and 1 black knight vs my spellbreaker) and with my 2nd and unexpected brawl (against a enraged grommash and a ragnaros, both on his said, he lost the grommash)

the guy made some good early game plays (attacking me with a the final blow of deathbite while having 2 acolyte and 2 armorsmith ingame)
i was losing the whole match, he got to 40 armor and 15 health (i dropped an alexstrasa on his 30hp) and i was struggling at the end at 12hp and 2armor against a shieldmaiden and a ragnaros that if both would have hit face i would have died. Luckily ragnaros hit my sylvanas i and i stole the shieldmaiden with which i was able to to kill his rag. He draw a ton of cards, 5 or 6 from acolytes, 1 from harrison jones and 2 shield block.
Finally he was at 38 armor, 15 health, no cards in hand and no cards in the deck left and i was 8hp, 2armor, 1 armorsmith, 1 acolyte and 6 cards in hand. thanks to not drawing card i was able to beat him in the fatigue
 

Rhezuss

Diamond Member
Jan 31, 2006
4,118
34
91
i just had one of the most stressing matches i ever played

CW vs CW

we played mostly the same cards all the time, and i got lucky with a brawl (1 silenced sludge belcher and 1 black knight vs my spellbreaker) and with my 2nd and unexpected brawl (against a enraged grommash and a ragnaros, both on his said, he lost the grommash)

the guy made some good early game plays (attacking me with a the final blow of deathbite while having 2 acolyte and 2 armorsmith ingame)
i was losing the whole match, he got to 40 armor and 15 health (i dropped an alexstrasa on his 30hp) and i was struggling at the end at 12hp and 2armor against a shieldmaiden and a ragnaros that if both would have hit face i would have died. Luckily ragnaros hit my sylvanas i and i stole the shieldmaiden with which i was able to to kill his rag. He draw a ton of cards, 5 or 6 from acolytes, 1 from harrison jones and 2 shield block.
Finally he was at 38 armor, 15 health, no cards in hand and no cards in the deck left and i was 8hp, 2armor, 1 armorsmith, 1 acolyte and 6 cards in hand. thanks to not drawing card i was able to beat him in the fatigue

Nice! Best games when they're tense and stressful, love it!
 
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