Hearthstone

[Piotrsama]

As for Trumps experience... he can grind it out while we plebs can't. He also bought packs for it. The true casual gamer that doesn't buy anything goes up against people that do and gets clobbered.

To clarify:
He didn't spend any money buying packs, just gold he earned through quests and the packs you get for free at first.
Watch his first video of this series, if you have any doubts.

 

[Aikouka]

Are you playing the same game I am playing? Trump just started a brand new account at the beginning of this month and is playing it in ranked. Yes, he got a little lucky on his first couple packs he unlocked (getting a cabal shadow priest and a few support priest cards). He also got decent card selection choices in most of his arena runs (using the gold he unlocked via quests), which has allowed him to open up more packs.

He has opened around 45 packs since the beginning of this month and is at around rank 8 using essentially free and common cards with just 9 rare and 2 epic.

That Free to Play mentality that he uses in his series would never work for me. To put it bluntly, I don't want to disenchant any of my cards. The completionist side of me wants to eventually have them all, and disenchanting a card for what amounts to 1/4 the value of a comparable card (i.e. you have to disenchant 4 rare cards to create 1 rare) is just a no-go for me.

Also, not everyone is Trump. Being able to play Free to Play with an extremely limited card selection means that you actually need to be skilled at deck building. You need to know what cards to craft next and what should be replaced. Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a HUGE problem to me. Why? Because the people typically trying to go with a Free to Play setup are the new players (not pro-gamers), and there's a good chance that they have no CCG experience. They have no experience, and you want them to be able to determine card and deck viability? You might as well ask them for their opinion on proper MOBA item purchase orders. D:

 

[lupi]

Yes it's kind of a good lol to compare the trump experience to a normal casual player. He's get enough hi $$$$ experience at the game that he could quickly grind through an initial dozen packs and then have enough resources to create a single really good deck. I like many others, don't play that way.

At this point the game is mostly reduced to random deck brawls and arena. The pay to win feeling is getting too strong on the ladder.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I never really bothered with ladder until the end of last month (just enough to get the card back). Now that there is some real reward, I started taking it a little more seriously, but not a whole lot more.

 

[HumblePie]

That Free to Play mentality that he uses in his series would never work for me. To put it bluntly, I don't want to disenchant any of my cards. The completionist side of me wants to eventually have them all, and disenchanting a card for what amounts to 1/4 the value of a comparable card (i.e. you have to disenchant 4 rare cards to create 1 rare) is just a no-go for me.

Also, not everyone is Trump. Being able to play Free to Play with an extremely limited card selection means that you actually need to be skilled at deck building. You need to know what cards to craft next and what should be replaced. Now, I don't know about you, but that sounds like a HUGE problem to me. Why? Because the people typically trying to go with a Free to Play setup are the new players (not pro-gamers), and there's a good chance that they have no CCG experience. They have no experience, and you want them to be able to determine card and deck viability? You might as well ask them for their opinion on proper MOBA item purchase orders. D:

This as well^^

Most F2P players, and many people that have paid for some cards, aren't out to make 1 really awesome deck for ranked only play and go with that. No they are there to collect as well as play. Most people dust because they have extras and no other reason. Still, as stated even new players would not exactly know what to dust and not to dust. My coworker friend, that I mentioned previously, did ask my opinion on what he could dust for a better deck and I helped him with that. Had him craft a couple knife jugglers as those tend to be a staple in just about any agro deck.

Still Trump can spend hours grinding for gold that the regular player can't. With a new account, his experience is going to net him 90+% of the games as wins which will get him gold quickly as the game will only pit him up against mostly new accounts as well which tend to be played by newbies and not others with Trumps experience.

Again he has the experience to create, dust, and play a single streamlined deck into a decent rank rating where the system will pit him only against other crappy players most of the time until his rank is high enough that the system can no longer match him up against other newer accounts.

 

[HumblePie]

I never really bothered with ladder until the end of last month (just enough to get the card back). Now that there is some real reward, I started taking it a little more seriously, but not a whole lot more.

15 and 5 are the magic ranks in terms of good rewards for the attainability of the ranks.

 

[Grooveriding]

Yes it's kind of a good lol to compare the trump experience to a normal casual player. He's get enough hi $$$$ experience at the game that he could quickly grind through an initial dozen packs and then have enough resources to create a single really good deck. I like many others, don't play that way.

At this point the game is mostly reduced to random deck brawls and arena. The pay to win feeling is getting too strong on the ladder.

Hearthstone's business model is pay to win though. Unless you are doing Arena that is what it's centered around. It goes like this :

New player starts playing and gets their ass handed to them repeatedly by people with the standard go to stacked gimmick decks. They see random legendary cards and the typical OP decks that crush newbies in the 10-24 brackets like murlock paladin, patron warrior etc. handing them their ass. They then learn of these decks and the required cards to make them and start buying packs to get the cards. They now become those same players crushing the newbie fodder and the cycle repeats.

That's the basis of how Hearthstone makes money. Would have been a good game if you just paid $60 for it and the game came with all cards available at the outset. The pay to win model ruins it, but there is always arena.

 

[JTsyo]

Would have been a good game if you just paid $60 for it and the game came with all cards available at the outset.

One of the fun parts of a CCG is opening packs and building your collection. Blizzard is not a charity, there should be no expectation for them to make the game F2P with the same experience as those who pay. So far I only paid for the adventures, not packs and I don't feel too far behind. Though I been playing since release. Those that just start playing can't expect to catch up without buying packs.

 

[Aikouka]

The pay to win model ruins it, but there is always arena.

Except, you can't forget that Arena is Pay to Play. This actually makes Hearthstone feel more like a super cheesy F2P mobile game where you're artificially restricted in your playtime by some sort of "stamina" mechanic. Someone may say, "but you can pay with gold!", and they're correct. However, you have to earn the gold first. You earn 10 gold per three wins and potentially 40-60 gold per quest (or a card pack). Given you get one quest per day, it could take you upwards of 27 wins (or more) to make enough gold to play one Arena run. Hopefully you don't get a bad draw and go 0-3! :biggrin:

Of course, if you're out of quests, it will take 45 wins just to make enough to play one Arena run. This makes Arena sound more like some "treat" that you're supposed to savor after suffering through normal constructed play. That's why I'd still like to see a free Arena that provides no rewards. I'd even be fine if you weren't allowed to complete quests in it!

One of the fun parts of a CCG is opening packs and building your collection.

I agree about what's fun with CCGs, but do you think that Hearthstone's digital aspect makes it a bit less collectible (the first 'C' in CCG)? I guess I'm just including the ability to trade cards and such as part of the collectible nature. Also, the idea of rarity is another aspect that Hearthstone lessened by making any card (with the exception of a few achievement reward cards and basic cards) craftable.

Those that just start playing can't expect to catch up without buying packs.

Do you think that's an issue? I don't follow CCGs much, but I've seen some say that Magic would remove earlier card packs/expansions to avoid a glut of cards. In some ways, Blizzard is already doing this by creating obviously better cards (e.g. Magma Rager replaced by Frost Rager).

 

[HumblePie]

I'm just waiting until Blizzard comes out with "environment" buff or changing cards. These get played to the board like a secret or something and not a creature. They can be removed or overwritten by another environment card. This like give all water based creatures +1/+1 or something like that. Affects both sides.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Well, I hit rank 14 last night (only play 1 ranked game a day normally). Did it with a beautiful perfect draw on my ramp druid deck (went second, initial draw was innervate, wild growth, wild growth, Rag... do the math ). I was against a priest, who played nothing turn 1, so I passed as well. Turn 2 he healed me, I played wild growth. Turn 3 he played a cleric and +2 healthed it. I played the second wild growth and attacked his hero with my hero power. Turn 4 he played a piloted shredder (and attacked my hero with the cleric). I now have 6 mana, and play innervate and Rag (I figured I had a 50% chance that it would get power word death, but still had to play it), Rag kills the cleric. Turn 5 the priest attacks Rag with his shredder, and gets a 2/3 croc as the deathrattle and plays another shredder. I coin and play an ironbark. He quits...

 

[lupi]

That would actually be nice. Been in so many games like that where the other side stays playing so they end up finally dieing 5 turns later by just tossing out everything they can till they finally hit 0 health.

 

[artemicion]

That would actually be nice. Been in so many games like that where the other side stays playing so they end up finally dieing 5 turns later by just tossing out everything they can till they finally hit 0 health.

Fulfilling quest requirements is kind of a legit reason to hang out till the very end. If I've got one of those "Do 100 damage to minions" or "Do 100 damage to enemy heroes" quests, I'll ride a losing game till the end if I can scrounge up some quest progress.

 

[JTsyo]

"Do 100 damage to minions"

Kill 40 minions.

I will almost never quit. The exception is if they are taking too long to finish the game.

 

[Aikouka]

Hm, the current Brawl seems to be rather skewed toward Warlock in general... especially Handlock. I actually had a mirror match against another Warlock, and I'm still not sure if he had a Zoo deck and just wasn't playing it correctly, or had some weird deck. Normally, I don't enjoy the zany RNG too much, but it did create a bit of an amusing moment. My opponent started trying to rush me down, which meant I fell below the -3 threshold. I thought, "Eh, not a problem. I can just drop a molten or two and siphon soul his beefier minion." *Game summons... LOREWALKER CHO!* "I hate you, Hearthstone." :biggrin:

 

[Vivendi]

Yea coincidentally I had the win 3 warlock games quest up so I just made a modified handlock deck and won three straight games (beat another handlock, zoo and a face hunter) for the pack and quest. Handlock is very good in this brawl.

 

[Fallen Kell]

I havn't looked at the brawl yet this week, will do so tonight. But speaking of warlock, I got my butt handed to me the other night in arena by a warlock that had essentially a constructed demon deck. It was insane. Every turn it was what you normally would see pop out. Even pulled out Lord J (I lost when that happened). It ended my 8 win mage run...

 

[Aikouka]

Yea coincidentally I had the win 3 warlock games quest up so I just made a modified handlock deck and won three straight games (beat another handlock, zoo and a face hunter) for the pack and quest. Handlock is very good in this brawl.

I'm tempted to play more just to see if I can fight against a Priest. It'd be hilarious to see a Priest heal me just to avoid me falling 3 health below him.

 

[lupi]

lol at someone playing a warrior.

 

[Aikouka]

lol at someone playing a warrior.

In the Brawl? I don't think that's the worst thing if you have a heavy weapon focus.

 

[JTsyo]

Had a fun game where I raced down in health as a warlock vs another warlock. I was getting units and controlled the board but was down to 3 health. Then who should I draw but Mal'Ganis. He conceded after that.

 

[HumblePie]

Definitely another handlock favored brawl. Been a few, but this one almost seems tailor made.

 

[Fallen Kell]

Yeah, I think I have to agree that handlock seems to be one of the best strats on this brawl. That said, I got my win with a priest (made a 1 hit monster).

So, I finally broke down and crafted The Black Knight. It was a tough choice to be honest, between that, Malygos, Nexus-Champion Saraad, and Foe Reaper 4000. Nexus-Champ seemed to be the one that would also have the most use in multiple decks. Malygos is really only useful in the 1 shaman deck (and since I don't have the epic needed to really make it work, I figured I would pass until I open a pack with that epic). The Black Knight has good use in a couple of my decks, so it was the one I chose.

 

[Fallen Kell]

You know, I just love getting a face hunter as my opponent. I love the crush they have when after playing the Eaglehorn Bow and not attacking, and popping their Mad Scientists to get both an explosive trap and a bear trap/freezing trap in place, having me then use the 2-3 minions on the board to pop the traps giving his weapon 4 attacks. Only for me to then play Harrison Jones and draw 4 cards...

I ALWAYS search for that card on start when I am against a hunter, discarding everything but a 1 mana card to try and get it (I would keep a 1 mana since it is so worth that otherwise empty turn).

 

[Fallen Kell]

I have to admit, Shaman really did get some real useful love in the grand tournament expansion. Between the 3/4 totems, and the 3/2 totems that summon a random totem, as well as things like Mukla's Champ, and The Mistcaller, it really got some decent buffs. Enough so that I have won 2 games with it in ranked without even taking a single point in damage before I killed the enemy because he was always reacting to me and never able to get out ahead of me to force me to react to him.