Help deciding on a 15" rMBP...new or refurb? Opinions wanted

[giftofgabe]

Hey all,

Curious to hear some opinions about which rMBP to buy, a refurb last gen with the 650m or the new one with Iris Pro. I could save a few hundred on the old model but am wondering if the HD4000 has improved with Mavericks enough for me to consider it. I'm more of a casual user, but I def don't want to drop all that money for a computer that stutters and gets too hot. Also, how's the battery life for you 1st gen owners? I'll be waiting for Anand's review but I'd like to have some opinions from people who own one or the other. Oh, and btw the 13" is nice, but I'm pretty set on the 15". Thanks!

 

[JAG87]

I have the 13", and I can tell you that the mythical "lag" is not an issue. It only presents itself in very particular scenarios. The HD4000 is plenty fast for over 90% of the UI animations.

The only reasons to consider the new model is if you care about TB2, 802.11ac, or you absolutely need the extra hour of battery life. Otherwise save your money.

 

[mmntech]

If you're concerned about the GPU and want to do some gaming on it, the GeForce 650M is a better than the Iris Pro hands down. I really wish Apple would stop dicking around with Intel integrated graphics on their high end systems.

Haswell offers a good battery life boost, ThunderBolt 2, and AC WiFi, as stated above. If you're in university lecture halls all day, that 9hrs can make a big difference. For general use, not so much.

The refurb 2012 I see is $1899 right now. While you're only saving $100 over new, the refurb has a faster CPU and GPU. I'd get that. Refurbished Apple products are as good as new and come with a full warranty. The new 2013 rMPB is $2500 if you want a dedicated GPU. Comes with more RAM and a bigger SSD. Stuff you can always upgrade down the road though.

 

[boomhower]

If you're concerned about the GPU and want to do some gaming on it, the GeForce 650M is a better than the Iris Pro hands down. I really wish Apple would stop dicking around with Intel integrated graphics on their high end systems.

Haswell offers a good battery life boost, ThunderBolt 2, and AC WiFi, as stated above. If you're in university lecture halls all day, that 9hrs can make a big difference. For general use, not so much.

The refurb 2012 I see is $1899 right now. While you're only saving $100 over new, the refurb has a faster CPU and GPU. I'd get that. Refurbished Apple products are as good as new and come with a full warranty. The new 2013 rMPB is $2500 if you want a dedicated GPU. Comes with more RAM and a bigger SSD. Stuff you can always upgrade down the road though.

Pretty sure those can't be upgraded RAM is soldered and SSD is proprietary. SSD may be upgradable down the road but at a high cost if the Air's are any example. Personally I'd go with the new one. Unless you need to GPU power of the 650M.

 

[Tyranicus]

You definitely cannot upgrade the RAM, and the SSD is not considered a user-serviceable part. It *can* be upgraded, but it's not like it uses a 2.5" drive.

 

[gus6464]

SSD on the new one is faster as well now that it's going through PCI-E.

 

[TreVader]

If you don't play games, the 13" is better than the old 15". The old 15" was pretty massive.

 

[gus6464]

If you don't play games, the 13" is better than the old 15". The old 15" was pretty massive.

Um the chassis of last year's 15" rMBP is the EXACT same one as this year's. The 13" got thinner, the 15" stayed exactly the same.

 

[BuCkDoG]

I currently have the Early 2013 15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.7 Quad i7, 16GB RAM, 512 SSD, with the GT 650M. This was the soft release update that Apple did quietly back in February 2013 for a small spec bump and it is honestly more than capable of doing everything I need. I do everything on this machine and it never has lagged up or skipped a beat for me ever. From hard core Video Editing to running 25 man Raids in World of Warcraft at Retina Resolution, (2880x1800), to having multiple web pages open and videos playing, it never skips a beat. Mavericks has made a pretty significant difference in the UI lag "Scrolling" issue and other various bugs so thats a justifiable improvement. When this machine first debuted in June 2012, it was plagued with ghosting issues in LG displays and UI lag all over the place. Most people thought the UI issues were a hardware issue, however it simply turned out to be software related. So now that everything has been addressed over the past year, this machine is now what it was supposed to be originally. Overall an excellent machine now for the money.

Following the announcement regarding the new Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros, I personally would buy a Refurbished model after seeing the specs and what the 15" has to offer. For $2,000 you don't get the 8GB RAM you used to in the previous model and you also don't get a dedicated GPU. To me that just seems ridiculous. Granted Mavericks used memory Coalescing which makes that 4GB RAM a bit more useful but still for a $2,000 machine, I expect minimum 8GB RAM and a dedicated GPU. The minor upgrades you get though is of course 802.11ac, the PCI-e based SSD which clocks in around 700mb read and 750mb writes, roughly about 300mb more than the previous SATA SSD's, and Iris Pro, which is more or less a imitation GT 650m, which some people say that that is even a stretch. This leaves you with the upgraded high end model at $2,600 which offers you everything the previous model has to offer but you get the faster SSD, the new GT 750m which has 2GB VRAM, 802.11ac, and everything else that the previous model had. So personally I would recommend you get the high end Refurbished model and save yourself some money. Most devices and products aren't even AC ready yet, so don't worry and enjoy the greatness at a lower cost. Hope this helps!

 

[TreVader]

Um the chassis of last year's 15" rMBP is the EXACT same one as this year's. The 13" got thinner, the 15" stayed exactly the same.

Um try again

Mid 2012

Height: 0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width: 14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth: 9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight: 5.6 pounds (2.56 kg)2

Late 2013

Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm)
Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm)
Weight: 4.46 pounds (2.02 kg)2

THX

 

[TreVader]

I currently have the Early 2013 15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.7 Quad i7, 16GB RAM, 512 SSD, with the GT 650M. This was the soft release update that Apple did quietly back in February 2013 for a small spec bump and it is honestly more than capable of doing everything I need. I do everything on this machine and it never has lagged up or skipped a beat for me ever. From hard core Video Editing to running 25 man Raids in World of Warcraft at Retina Resolution, (2880x1800), to having multiple web pages open and videos playing, it never skips a beat. Mavericks has made a pretty significant difference in the UI lag "Scrolling" issue and other various bugs so thats a justifiable improvement. When this machine first debuted in June 2012, it was plagued with ghosting issues in LG displays and UI lag all over the place. Most people thought the UI issues were a hardware issue, however it simply turned out to be software related. So now that everything has been addressed over the past year, this machine is now what it was supposed to be originally. Overall an excellent machine now for the money.

Following the announcement regarding the new Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros, I personally would buy a Refurbished model after seeing the specs and what the 15" has to offer. For $2,000 you don't get the 8GB RAM you used to in the previous model and you also don't get a dedicated GPU. To me that just seems ridiculous. Granted Mavericks used memory Coalescing which makes that 4GB RAM a bit more useful but still for a $2,000 machine, I expect minimum 8GB RAM and a dedicated GPU. The minor upgrades you get though is of course 802.11ac, the PCI-e based SSD which clocks in around 700mb read and 750mb writes, roughly about 300mb more than the previous SATA SSD's, and Iris Pro, which is more or less a imitation GT 650m, which some people say that that is even a stretch. This leaves you with the upgraded high end model at $2,600 which offers you everything the previous model has to offer but you get the faster SSD, the new GT 750m which has 2GB VRAM, 802.11ac, and everything else that the previous model had. So personally I would recommend you get the high end Refurbished model and save yourself some money. Most devices and products aren't even AC ready yet, so don't worry and enjoy the greatness at a lower cost. Hope this helps!

The GT650M has between 3-4x the performance of the Iris Pro. It's far better than an imitation.


That said, I didn't know about the soft refresh early 2013, I did notice it was much thinner than the old MBP (non-retina) that a roommate of mine bought maybe 3 months ago but I thought they made that change in this refresh.

 

[gus6464]

Um try again

Mid 2012

Height: 0.95 inch (2.41 cm)
Width: 14.35 inches (36.4 cm)
Depth: 9.82 inches (24.9 cm)
Weight: 5.6 pounds (2.56 kg)2

Late 2013

Height: 0.71 inch (1.8 cm)
Width: 14.13 inches (35.89 cm)
Depth: 9.73 inches (24.71 cm)
Weight: 4.46 pounds (2.02 kg)2

THX

Where on earth are you getting those numbers? Are you just making stuff up at this point?

Straight from the Anandtech review of last year's retina:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/2

0.71 H x 14.13 W x 9.73" D

Those are the dimensions for the first gen 15" rMBP. It's the same exact chassis man.

 

[giftofgabe]

If you're concerned about the GPU and want to do some gaming on it, the GeForce 650M is a better than the Iris Pro hands down. I really wish Apple would stop dicking around with Intel integrated graphics on their high end systems.

Haswell offers a good battery life boost, ThunderBolt 2, and AC WiFi, as stated above. If you're in university lecture halls all day, that 9hrs can make a big difference. For general use, not so much.

The refurb 2012 I see is $1899 right now. While you're only saving $100 over new, the refurb has a faster CPU and GPU. I'd get that. Refurbished Apple products are as good as new and come with a full warranty. The new 2013 rMPB is $2500 if you want a dedicated GPU. Comes with more RAM and a bigger SSD. Stuff you can always upgrade down the road though.

Thanks for the response. Dang, they had the stock 256gb one just a day or two ago for $1599, which is roughly $300 saved with tax compared to my employer discount through Apple. It is non-upgradeable, but I'll probably be fine with the compressed RAM and just use an external HDD on the cheap for photo and music libraries. Sounds like a good deal.

 

[giftofgabe]

I currently have the Early 2013 15" Retina MacBook Pro 2.7 Quad i7, 16GB RAM, 512 SSD, with the GT 650M. This was the soft release update that Apple did quietly back in February 2013 for a small spec bump and it is honestly more than capable of doing everything I need. I do everything on this machine and it never has lagged up or skipped a beat for me ever. From hard core Video Editing to running 25 man Raids in World of Warcraft at Retina Resolution, (2880x1800), to having multiple web pages open and videos playing, it never skips a beat. Mavericks has made a pretty significant difference in the UI lag "Scrolling" issue and other various bugs so thats a justifiable improvement. When this machine first debuted in June 2012, it was plagued with ghosting issues in LG displays and UI lag all over the place. Most people thought the UI issues were a hardware issue, however it simply turned out to be software related. So now that everything has been addressed over the past year, this machine is now what it was supposed to be originally. Overall an excellent machine now for the money.

Following the announcement regarding the new Late 2013 Retina MacBook Pros, I personally would buy a Refurbished model after seeing the specs and what the 15" has to offer. For $2,000 you don't get the 8GB RAM you used to in the previous model and you also don't get a dedicated GPU. To me that just seems ridiculous. Granted Mavericks used memory Coalescing which makes that 4GB RAM a bit more useful but still for a $2,000 machine, I expect minimum 8GB RAM and a dedicated GPU. The minor upgrades you get though is of course 802.11ac, the PCI-e based SSD which clocks in around 700mb read and 750mb writes, roughly about 300mb more than the previous SATA SSD's, and Iris Pro, which is more or less a imitation GT 650m, which some people say that that is even a stretch. This leaves you with the upgraded high end model at $2,600 which offers you everything the previous model has to offer but you get the faster SSD, the new GT 750m which has 2GB VRAM, 802.11ac, and everything else that the previous model had. So personally I would recommend you get the high end Refurbished model and save yourself some money. Most devices and products aren't even AC ready yet, so don't worry and enjoy the greatness at a lower cost. Hope this helps!

Thanks so much for the reply, your experience was exactly what I was hoping to hear. I just can't justify spending $2600+ on a laptop to get a discrete card, but it sounds like then HD4000 that's paired with the 650m has gotten a lot better with Mavericks. I'd love to hear anyone else's opinion, especially if someone has upgraded from gen1 to gen2 and thinks the Iris Pro seems "good enough".

 

[TreVader]

Where on earth are you getting those numbers? Are you just making stuff up at this point?

Straight from the Anandtech review of last year's retina:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6023/the-nextgen-macbook-pro-with-retina-display-review/2

0.71 H x 14.13 W x 9.73" D

Those are the dimensions for the first gen 15" rMBP. It's the same exact chassis man.

I got them off apple's site, but i forgot to put retina. They are for the regular macbook pro 15". So I was wrong.

 

[manly]

BuCkDoG,

The new 15" rMBP does come with 8 GB RAM standard:
http://www.apple.com/macbook-pro/specs-retina/

Unfortunately I think it's still too rich for my blood.

 

[tokie]

The GT650M has between 3-4x the performance of the Iris Pro. It's far better than an imitation.


That said, I didn't know about the soft refresh early 2013, I did notice it was much thinner than the old MBP (non-retina) that a roommate of mine bought maybe 3 months ago but I thought they made that change in this refresh.

Where are you getting 3-4x figures from?

What I have seen so far is that the 750m is around 50% faster than the Iris Pro in the new rMBP. Therefore the 650m may be like 40-45% faster.