Help in choosing a motherboard/cpu/memory...

[DigitalDolphin]

Hello everyone,

I'm new to this board, but not new to PCs (using or building). Unfortunately, I have been unable to keep with the newest technologies with regard to PC building. I have scanned topics and FAQa in this board, but would still appreciate some help/info.

I'm gonna build a new system for working at home (SW development) and online gaming(!!!). My general spec are:

• P4 2.0G or better

• 512 MB memory

My specifics are using an Intel motherboard (stability factor) and genuine Intel CPU (preference). I am not interested in the Intel/AMD thing. 'Nuff said.

My questions are about which motherboard? All my research has indicated using a 478 socket CPU. However, which chipset...845 or 850? I thought the 850 was the better (newer) choice but am not sure. Also, what kind of memory? Overclocking isn't a requirement (I don't think Intel boards loan themselves to this), but would be ok. On-board lan/sound, etc is in the noise range (not important to dwell over).

Basically, I don't understand the chipsets and memory types/speeds enough to make a decision. Any comments would be appreciated.

Thank for answering questions that (I'm sure) have been ansered before,

DD

 

[mechBgon]

Since no Pentium4 owners answered this, you'll have to put up with an Athlon owner's answers

The Pentium4 seems to work at its best with RAMBUS RDRAM memory. There are also some noteworthy motherboard chipsets for the Pentium4 which use DDR SDRAM in either PC2100 (aka DDR266) or PC2700 (aka DDR333). Avoid any solution that uses regular SDRAM as opposed to DDR (namely, plain-vanilla Intel i845 with no letters tacked on)

RAMBUS solutions

• Intel i850: i850 was Intel's top desktop chipset, supporting the Pentium 4's that use the 400MHz bus and using PC800 RDRAM memory.
  Example board: Asus P4T-E
  Notable features of the chipset in general: uh, it's pretty fast.
  Potential issues: you wouldn't have support for the Pentium4's which use the 533MHz bus speed.
  
• Intel i850e: this adds support for the 533MHz bus speeds of the latest P4's, allowing more flexibility when upgrading or swapping parts around. Uses RDRAM memory and is designed to use the PC1066 flavor of it.
  Example board: Since I'm being lazy... Asus P4T533-C.
  Notable features of the chipset in general: USB 2.0
  Potential issues: It is designed to use PC1066 memory which was a little tardy in arriving and is still expensive at $150 per 256Mb. Also, Intel is planning to drop RAMBUS as a memory technology, and i850e may be the last Intel desktop chipset to use it... edit: although SiS has an RDRAM-based chipset coming out.[/b] Intel apparently intends to move toward dual-channel DDR.

DDR Solutions

• Intel i845D: uses PC2100 DDR memory and supports P4's that use the 400MHz FSB.
  Example board: Hey, how about a whole batch of Microstar i845D boards!
  Notable features of the chipset: Reportedly quite stable. I believe the chipset inherently supports USB 2.0.
  Potential issues: lower performance than most of the other choices. No support for 533MHz-bus Pentium4's.
  
• Intel i845E: uses PC2100 DDR and supports the 400MHz-bus and 533MHz-bus Pentium4's.
  Example board: EPoX EP-4BEAR
  Notables: USB 2.0
  Potential issues: lower performance than RDRAM solutions
  
• Intel i845G: uses PC2100 DDR with unofficial support for PC2700, and supports the 400MHz-bus and 533MHz-bus Pentium4's. Has onboard Intel 3D-accelerated graphics chip that falls somewhere in the GeForce4MX420 area as far as I've heard. i845E and i845G review at AnandTech
  Example board: Asus P4B533-V, note that there are multiple Asus boards starting with "P4B533" so pay attention to the letter at the end
  Notables: USB 2.0, onboard graphics, FireWire capability
  Potential issues: lower performance than RDRAM solutions
  
• SiS645 and SiS650: uses PC2100 or PC2700 DDR memory and supports P4's using the 400MHz bus. SiS650 adds integrated video based on an SiS video controller which is supposedly somewhere in the GeForce2MX area performance-wise.
  Example board: Microstar is making this easy for me, so here we go.
  Notables: low cost, with performance somewhere in the area of i845D, onboard graphics option
  Potential issues: lower performance than RDRAM solutions, no support for 533MHz-bus CPUs
  
• SiS645DX: uses PC2100 or PC2700 DDR and supports both 400MHz-bus and 533MHz-bus P4's.
  Example board: Elitegroup (ECS) P4S5A/DX
  Notables: low cost, but gives ok performance from what I've read
  Potential issues: lower performance than RDRAM solutions
  
• VIA P4X266A: uses PC2100 and supports 400MHz-bus and 533MHz-bus Pentium4's.
  Example board: Shuttle AV45GT2/R
  Notables: infamous for getting VIA sued by Intel. Not exceptionally fast.
  Potential issues: lower performance than RDRAM solutions
  
• VIA P4X333: uses PC2700 and supports 400MHz-bus and 533MHz-bus Pentium4's.
  Example board: VIA P4PB Pro
  Notables: Intel will have to sue them twice now The chipset supports FireWire, USB 2.0, and is pretty fast judging by Anand's review. Not on the market quite yet.
  Potential issues: you will be a black sheep for owning it?

I think that covers almost every option except for plain i845 with standard SDRAM, which is evil, and ATI's upcoming chipset with integrated ATI graphics. If it were me, I would be torn between i850e (performance but cost), i845G (potentially-useful stuff like FireWire and USB 2.0 for cams, drives, etc), or P4X333 if it were available (good blend of stuff + performance with presumably a lower price than i850e and particularly the expensive PC1066 RAMBUS that i850e takes). I would rule out any solution that won't take 533MHz-bus CPUs right off the bat. Hope this helps, and welcome to the Forums!

I'd like to add that the motherboard page at Newegg.com has become a very useful research tool for me. If a particular chipset interests me, I can just hit the dropdown box and search up a whole batch of boards based upon that chipset, then pursue my research on them.

 

[THUGSROOK]

i would suggest an Asus P4B533 motherboard w/ samsung original or Corsair XMS PC2700 DDR.

you didnt say the "overclock" anywhere so ill assume youre not.
but if youd want to - youd be all set to

make sure you get a P4 2.0A Northwood CPU with 512k cache - not the regular P4 2.0.

HTH

 

[mechBgon]

Hey Thugs, what is the outlook on the upcoming SiS RDRAM solution? I'm behind on the news...

 

[THUGSROOK]

i havent heard a thing about it yet - but rambus is giving it a huge effort since intel is dropping them.
i donno tho....

 

[Scipionix]

Originally posted by: DigitalDolphin
Hello everyone,

My specifics are using an Intel motherboard (stability factor) and genuine Intel CPU (preference). I am not interested in the Intel/AMD thing. 'Nuff said.

Do you mean a motherboard with an Intel chipset (e.g. Asus P4T-E with an i850 chipset) or an entire motherboard made by Intel?

 

[dbarton]

Originally posted by: THUGSROOK
i would suggest an Asus P4B533 motherboard w/ samsung original or Corsair XMS PC2700 DDR.

Is there a reason why you'd suggest this over a P4T533 with 512m 800mhz rambus?

Assuming price was not an issue, isn't the Rambus board a bit faster, so I can not overclock and still have a faster stabler machine?

I though I had decided on p4t533, but still open to p4b533 if there's compleiign reason.

Is using 2700 memory a bit risky and pushing things bit? Or are the p4b533-V and E, designed to use pc2700 with no issue?

I want to be conservative and avoid any lockup issues.

 

[trueblue]

I to am looking into this and I am NOT going to overclocking. I to am interested in stability combined with reasonable speed plus upgradability.

Given all the 533FSB options which boards what way would you people recommend to go??

I am considering buying the intel 533FSB board with a northwood 2.0G cpu. However I am torn between between RDRam and DDR. If I chose rdram it would be pc800 as the intel 850 board (D850emv2)does not support pc1066, but what concerns me is that intel is dropping rdram support and how will this affect me later when I try to upgrade??; and or;

Do i go for the DDR solution in the intel 533FSB mobo (D845EBG2) and get a slight performance drop. Again I would have to fit PC2100 DDR as PC2700 is not supported by the intel mobo(according to intel).

How much a performance drop will it be between the rdram pc800 and DDR pc2100?? Will it be that noticable playing games and using a computer for home use.

I am real interested in your opinions and experiences on this subject??

 

[mechBgon]

/me looks around for the Intel owners who should be answering these questions... oh well...

Start by having a look at the results in Anand's review of i845E and i845G to get a feel for how the DDR-versus-RDRAM situation plays out.

Next, take note of the 1100MHz+ overclock on THUGSROOK's signature rig using DDR. Doesn't look like DDR is having any problems to me, and at that speed you can be fairly sure it's going to outrun the RDRAM solution, which sounds like it is resistant to heavy overclocking. Given that DDR has a wider base in the industry, and that an experienced user is recommending it over RDRAM solutions, that's probably some good reasons to take that route.

Anand mentioned in his review that Intel's own Intel-branded i845G board will probably not have BIOS options to use PC2700, but the chipset has the capability and other makers' i845G boards will probably give you the ability to use that capability. So if you DO end up picking i845G you should probably pick up any brand except for Intel's own.

 

[DigitalDolphin]

Everyone,

Thanks for the help. I really appreciate it; especially since my main machine has given up the ghost. Not a power supply-just tried a new case.

Thugsrook,

I have looked at the Asus P4B533 motherboard/Corsair XMS PC2700 DDR memory combo as you suggested and it looks pretty good. I need to research why the PC2700 memory and how is the Northbridge CPU different different than the plain vanilla Intel P4.

Thanks again,

DD

 

[mechBgon]

By "Northbridge," did you mean Northwood? If so, the difference is that it's got double the level-2 cache (512kb versus 256kb), and is built using .13-micron versus .18-micron. The cache makes it fast, the .13-micron process makes it OC. There are two flavors of Northwood, those using 400MHz bus and those using 533MHz. The 533MHz has further helped the P4, so if you can afford any of the 533-based models, go for it.

 

[kreno]

lol, I'm going to be an ass and say screw the P4 and go Athlon man... a properly built AMD system is just as stable as any intel based system... Hell, my home computer that I'm typing this post on is in it's 8th month without any probs whatsoever.... only reason it had a prob a while back was because after cleaning all the dust out of my computer and cleaning off the heatsink I forgot to stick the fan back on and the computer wasn't stable... needless to say after about an hour of cussing and agitation I figured it out and felt real dumb

 

[DigitalDolphin]

Kreno,

No offense taken. Forums are for exchanges of ideas, opinions and info. I appreciate your opinions and am sure others will benifit from it also. However, I've always been an Intel kinda fish and will remain so. I am rather frustrated with range of info one must keep up with in order to venture outside the pre-built PC arena and really care about what's inside the box. I hope to catch up ASAP so I can order some parts and turn my next dream system into reality. Thanks.

DD

 

[Chillybott]

if you are looking for the 533 FSB capable chips and RDRAM, you have 3 or 4 choices of boards and 2 choices in memory

2 boards are Asus (P4T533:not yet available and P4T533-C: 'available' as long as vendors have it in stock), one is Gigabyte (GA-8IHXP: looks available as of tonight), one is Iwill (I have no idea about this company, but it didn't list USB2 as supported so i stopped looking at it)

if you choose to go with 16 bit RDRAM (available) you need to:
1) buy it in pairs
2) not consider the P4T533 as only the Iwill, Gigabyte, and P4T533-C support 16 bit RDRAM

if you choose 32 bit RDRAM (not necessary to pair) your only option is the not as of yet available P4T533. Oh, and 32 bit sticks aren't widely available (PC4200 RIMMs) if at all, so I believe Asus will be shipping the memory with the boards

personally, I want to see how 32 bit benchmarks against the 16 bit before I buy. I think the 16 bit stuff will drop in price when the 32 becomes available and 32 will be pricey for some time.

oh, processors:
for 533 FSB 2.26 GHz, 2.4 GHz, and 2.53 GHz. For the bang/buck, I'd say go with the 2.26 right now - the price diff between that level and the upper two is fairly steep and the relative difference in speeds is really not very large at all IMO

I checked out DDR stuff a while back but I saw that RDRAM really optimizes the P4's performance and walked in that direction, so I'm sorry I can't tell you much about DDR except that its prices have skyrocketed over the past 4 months!

 

[mechBgon]

Cool, DigitalDolphin is a Trout now Mmm, fish...

It's daunting to keep up with the chipsets even if you haven't been on the sidelines in the first place... Intel is coming out with, what was it again, i845GL, i845GLL, i845GE, i845PE... aieee! :Q edit: check out this chart for some more info, if you're interested: XBit Labs' report

Intel doesn't have a monopoly on stability, in my experience. My VIA-based systems have proven their stability even under truly nasty workloads (36-hour dual-CPU render/animation sessions, for instance). And the forums you're reading aren't running on Intel iron, either. They run 24/7 on AMD-based motherboards. If you want an Intel+Intel solution, there's nothing wrong with that, but if you want stability, pay equal attention to the rest of the system: RAM quality, power-supply quality, network-card quality (seriously!)...

 

[Athlon4all]

If you go P4, foget DDR, or at the very least get DDR333 with a P4X333 or 845G board. The P4 needs at lerast DDR333 on 845G or P4X333 or prefferably PC1066 RDRAM with 850e for optimum performance. That being said, if you do not plan on overclocking, the Athlon XP's in the same price range as the lower end P4's are faster (ie the 2100+ is in the same price range as 2.0A and its faster, same can be said about the 2200+ vs the 2.26GHz P4).

 

[innocentbastard]

I am currently in the same boat but I am looking at the 1.6A or 2.26. I haven't decided on how much of an overclock I will attempt for my first time. I am also still debating about what memory to go with. I think I am leaning towards the Asus board with Rambus memory but still up in the air.

 

[dbarton]

>I am currently in the same boat but I am looking at the 1.6A or 2.26. I haven't decided on how much of >an overclock I will attempt for my first time. I am also still debating about what memory to go with. I >think I am leaning towards the Asus board with Rambus memory but still up in the air.

I think I am ordering the p4t533 in the morning. RAMBUS is more expensive, but thats not a big deal.

256 meg is enough I hope for win98.

2.26 processor is cheap enough as well, so I plan to get that.

 

[kreno]

Originally posted by: dbarton
>I am currently in the same boat but I am looking at the 1.6A or 2.26. I haven't decided on how much of >an overclock I will attempt for my first time. I am also still debating about what memory to go with. I >think I am leaning towards the Asus board with Rambus memory but still up in the air.

I think I am ordering the p4t533 in the morning. RAMBUS is more expensive, but thats not a big deal.

256 meg is enough I hope for win98.

2.26 processor is cheap enough as well, so I plan to get that.

Geez, all that power and you're gonna run it on 98? C'mon man, Win2K or XP!

 

[Chillybott]

you didn't say if you were or not, but if you're going to get the 533 fsb then a 1.6A will hold the system back from performing its best. The lowest CPU model you would want to buy if going with 533 FSB is the 2.26.

 

[phillyTIM]

Originally posted by: Chillybott
you didn't say if you were or not, but if you're going to get the 533 fsb then a 1.6A will hold the system back from performing its best. The lowest CPU model you would want to buy if going with 533 FSB is the 2.26.

Actually, if he gets a 533fsb-compliant board, such as the 845e/845g/850e, he can get a 1.6a processor, up the fsb from 100 to 133, and get the equivalent of a 2.15ghz speed. or, up the fsb to 138 and get 2.2ghz out of his 1.6a, just as I am doing.

here's what ya do: get 2x256 Samsung DDR333 sticks, an Epox 4G4A+ (i845g) board, the p4-1.6a. install the DDR333, change the CPU jumper to 133 on the board itself, set the bios fsb to 138, set the memory to 4:5 ratio with cas2 and 1.6v, set the agp/pci lock to 66/33 speed, and have a stable, in-spec, p4-2.2ghz system for cheap!

figure--the 1.6a is $135, the 2.2 is at $240. you save over $100! and have one of the latest, stable true intel chipsets. the i845g boads allow you to use the DDR333 to its true potential, as i845g unofficially supports DDR33; and the epox 4g4a+ board is the most feature-rich board available for i845g, and made by a company with overclocking as it's main job!

PLUS: you have 2x256 (your 512mb) DDR333 sticks so that when dual-channel DDR boards come out later this year and next year, you can use your RAM in those boards, and get double the memory bandwidth, making it just as comparable to (if not better than) those i850e/PC1066 systems!

you have your true intel, 512mb, 2.2ghz system...very simple =)

BTW: this is exactly what i did & purchased last week! i'm quite happy with my new speedster! especially being with a via chipset under a p3-600 for the past 2 years!