Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: ironwing
And the native Spanish speakers who are citizens, just like their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents? Should they be forced to learn English? If you believe so, why?
I think so, simply because we've already settled on a de facto language, which I believe should become our national language. Now, I'm not saying that we should send police out to test these people at 2am and drag them to jail, but I would not be against a tax increase or money-shift that would go towards English education for these people.
Why would you not want to learn the language that the rest of the country is speaking anyway? I can't imagine going to China and not learning Chinese. It's absurd.
If, after 150 years, the people in my community were unable to learn Chinese and attempt to adapt, then they'd have to deal with the consequences of that.Originally posted by: ironwing
How about if your community was annexed by China w/o your consent? Everybody you knew still spoke English. The Chinese bought stuff from you but otherwise lived in a different part of town, set up their own schools, and generally ignored your English speaking community for 150 years. That is the situation here.
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
If, after 150 years, the people in my community were unable to learn Chinese and attempt to adapt, then they'd have to deal with the consequences of that.Originally posted by: ironwing
How about if your community was annexed by China w/o your consent? Everybody you knew still spoke English. The Chinese bought stuff from you but otherwise lived in a different part of town, set up their own schools, and generally ignored your English speaking community for 150 years. That is the situation here.
Let me ask you, what would you like to see happen with regard to this situation? Have all of the white people jump into the Atlantic Ocean?
Originally posted by: Inspector Jihad
¿que?
Originally posted by: BoomerD
que?
Isn't that what you use to shoot pool?
OR
/me lives in Northern Mexifornia...
Isn't that what they call the cards comedians use to remember their lines?
Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
DP
I thought you were male.
Originally posted by: ironwing
No, I don't want to have anyone do anything. Live and let live. If folks see that learning English is more profitable, eventually they'll learn it. Conversely, if folks see profit in learning Spanish, they'll go that route. Apparently, at the moment, the networks and the NFL see a profit in mingling Spanish into their broadcasts. I'm not surprised; lots of young men, lots of beer to be bought. If Anglos vote with their remotes and switch channels, the broadcasters will rethink it and decide which market is more important to them.
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
DP
I thought you were male.
Huh?
Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: ironwing
And the native Spanish speakers who are citizens, just like their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents? Should they be forced to learn English? If you believe so, why?
I think so, simply because we've already settled on a de facto language, which I believe should become our national language. Now, I'm not saying that we should send police out to test these people at 2am and drag them to jail, but I would not be against a tax increase or money-shift that would go towards English education for these people.
Why would you not want to learn the language that the rest of the country is speaking anyway? I can't imagine going to China and not learning Chinese. It's absurd.
How about if your community was annexed by China w/o your consent? Everybody you knew still spoke English. The Chinese bought stuff from you but otherwise lived in a different part of town, set up their own schools, and generally ignored your English speaking community for 150 years. That is the situation here.
In China alone, some 175 million people are now studying English in the formal education system. And an estimated 2 billion people will be studying it by 2010, according to a British Council report last year.
But English is?and, for the foreseeable future, seems set to remain?essential for those hoping to compete in the globalized world. From Brussels to Beijing, English is now the common language spoken in multinational firms, top universities and the scientific community. A recent survey by the San Francisco-based firm GlobalEnglish found that 91 percent of employees at multinationals in Latin America, Europe and Asia believed English was "critical" or "important" to their current positions. And the consulting group McKinsey warned China in 2005 that fewer than 10 percent of its college graduates were suitable for employment at multinationals?primarily because they couldn't speak English. "Any nation that ignores English learning does so at its peril," says James Oladejo, an expert in language acquisition at Taiwan's National Kaohsiung Normal University.
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: ironwing
No, I don't want to have anyone do anything. Live and let live. If folks see that learning English is more profitable, eventually they'll learn it. Conversely, if folks see profit in learning Spanish, they'll go that route. Apparently, at the moment, the networks and the NFL see a profit in mingling Spanish into their broadcasts. I'm not surprised; lots of young men, lots of beer to be bought. If Anglos vote with their remotes and switch channels, the broadcasters will rethink it and decide which market is more important to them.
What about education? Should schools in Spanish-speaking areas only teach in Spanish? What about daily life? What happens if, for some reason, a person not knowing English results in them getting injured or killed (let's say an English-only sign or something)?
This whole NFL thing is a minor annoyance at worst, but the language issue runs deeper.
YES, they do work that MOST American's won't do for the wages paid, BUT, many would do if the pay was better.
Unfortunately, they don't stick to ag jobs...they're in construction, restaurants, grocery stores, fast-food joints, anywhere that relatively unskilled labor is needed...
Here in Kahleeforneeya, it's gotten so bad that something like 50% of the residential construction is done by Mexican labor...not all of them qualified for the work, but they work cheaper than White people, and usually learn fairly quickly...if they want to keep their jobs...
Hell, the manager of the local Safeway's Bakery department was just deported for being an illegal immigrant...not exactly one of the "jobs that Americans don't want."
Originally posted by: 1prophet
Originally posted by: ironwing
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Originally posted by: ironwing
And the native Spanish speakers who are citizens, just like their parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents? Should they be forced to learn English? If you believe so, why?
I think so, simply because we've already settled on a de facto language, which I believe should become our national language. Now, I'm not saying that we should send police out to test these people at 2am and drag them to jail, but I would not be against a tax increase or money-shift that would go towards English education for these people.
Why would you not want to learn the language that the rest of the country is speaking anyway? I can't imagine going to China and not learning Chinese. It's absurd.
How about if your community was annexed by China w/o your consent? Everybody you knew still spoke English. The Chinese bought stuff from you but otherwise lived in a different part of town, set up their own schools, and generally ignored your English speaking community for 150 years. That is the situation here.
Funny you mentioned that
Why 175 million Chinese are Studying English
In China alone, some 175 million people are now studying English in the formal education system. And an estimated 2 billion people will be studying it by 2010, according to a British Council report last year.
Time to learn spanish and leave english to the countries that truly care about it like China.
But English is?and, for the foreseeable future, seems set to remain?essential for those hoping to compete in the globalized world. From Brussels to Beijing, English is now the common language spoken in multinational firms, top universities and the scientific community. A recent survey by the San Francisco-based firm GlobalEnglish found that 91 percent of employees at multinationals in Latin America, Europe and Asia believed English was "critical" or "important" to their current positions. And the consulting group McKinsey warned China in 2005 that fewer than 10 percent of its college graduates were suitable for employment at multinationals?primarily because they couldn't speak English. "Any nation that ignores English learning does so at its peril," says James Oladejo, an expert in language acquisition at Taiwan's National Kaohsiung Normal University.
It is a sad day in America when people from foreign countries have to remind us about the importance of English in a global economy.
Originally posted by: 2Xtreme21
Tell that to the Native Americans who were forced to listen to our foreign language (while we systematically raped everything they had).
Originally posted by: fisher
i'm fairly certain that speaking whatever language you want is not a freedom of this country.
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: joshsquall
This is why Congress needs to pass a law making English the official language of the US.
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt
---------------
"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."
He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."
He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."
link
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: joshsquall
This is why Congress needs to pass a law making English the official language of the US.
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt
---------------
"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."
He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."
He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."
link
i love how no one commented on this post so i will, Teddy here had the right idea, simple as that,
My great grandparents came here round the turn of the last century, from Italy, my great grandfatherrefused to speak or write Italian after they got here, they refused to teach it to my grandparents because ?we live in America and we speak English" my grandfather fought in WW2 for the US, stormed the beaches of Normandy, killed Italians...
i highly doubt you would ever see a Mexican doing anything of the like, as the OP said they come here because its "better" and then make it just as craptastic as where they came from
its not just Mexicans who do this, they just do it more then most others, some groups of people try and assimilate as best they can, and many enjoy doing so, however it seems the legal and illegal Mexicans want to make the southern part of the US part of Mexico
Originally posted by: Anubis
Originally posted by: moshquerade
Originally posted by: joshsquall
This is why Congress needs to pass a law making English the official language of the US.
"In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
Theodore Roosevelt
---------------
"Americanization" was a favorite theme of Roosevelt's during his later years, when he railed repeatedly against "hyphenated Americans" and the prospect of a nation "brought to ruins" by a "tangle of squabbling nationalities."
He advocated the compulsory learning of English by every naturalized citizen. "Every immigrant who comes here should be required within five years to learn English or to leave the country," he said in a statement to the Kansas City Star in 1918. "English should be the only language taught or used in the public schools."
He also insisted, on more than one occasion, that America has no room for what he called "fifty-fifty allegiance." In a speech made in 1917 he said, "It is our boast that we admit the immigrant to full fellowship and equality with the native-born. In return we demand that he shall share our undivided allegiance to the one flag which floats over all of us."
link
i love how no one commented on this post so i will, Teddy here had the right idea, simple as that,
My great grandparents came here round the turn of the last century, from Italy, my great grandfatherrefused to speak or write Italian after they got here, they refused to teach it to my grandparents because ?we live in America and we speak English" my grandfather fought in WW2 for the US, stormed the beaches of Normandy, killed Italians...
i highly doubt you would ever see a Mexican doing anything of the like, as the OP said they come here because its "better" and then make it just as craptastic as where they came from
its not just Mexicans who do this, they just do it more then most others, some groups of people try and assimilate as best they can, and many enjoy doing so, however it seems the legal and illegal Mexicans want to make the southern part of the US part of Mexico
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Because they came here.Originally posted by: aurareturn
Why should they be forced to become what we are?
Originally posted by: Dirigible
Actually, you gringos came here (California) speaking your foreign English tongue and taking my family's land by force in the 1840s and throwing my ancestors into poverty. I'll speak Spanish if I damn well please.
Of course, I can't speak Spanish, 'cause after 160 years of being part of the U.S. you kinda get americanized.
On a more serious note, I don't understand getting riled up about this. I'm a believer in freedom. Let people speak whatever language they want. Right now I think that not speaking English in this country limits your options and isn't a good choice. But it may be that we'll all have to learn Spanish in the future. Maybe we'll have to learn Chinese. Maybe we'll learn multiple languages. So what? Change happens. Life is like that.
Originally posted by: shinerburke
The point is the Mexicans are the only people in the history of this country who have immigrated and refused to assimilate.
Originally posted by: Chaotic42
Why would you not want to learn the language that the rest of the country is speaking anyway? I can't imagine going to China and not learning Chinese. It's absurd.