Help: k7s5a temperatures

[waqasusman]

I am getting 68-69C idle (Duron 1.0 + k7s5a, no oc'ing)
under load it goes up to 75 and upto a maximum of 78-79 (I know the death temperature is 90)

I am using the retail heatsink and fan. (The external temperatures here in Lahore, Pakistan are around 30-36C on cooler days during summers, and upto 45-49 on extremely hot days)

What are your recommendations for cooling the system? I am thinking about getting a bigger heatsink and fan, and using an additional exhaust fan. I ran it full load on 1100mhz and the temperature rose up to 82 in around 4 minutes!!!

I would like to overclock it to 1100 at least, or even 1250 (125*10) if temperature allows.

 

[bozo1]

Assuming your heatsink is attached properly, those temps are way too high even with using the retail heatsink. I'd take care of your case cooling first and see what you processor temps are then.

 

[waqasusman]

I bought three of these boards, the second one for my friend and the third one for his cousin. My friend's PC is also giving similar readings with the same processor. (haven't checked the third one)

So there's a little chance that the heatsink is improperly set on both of the processors, still this could be the problem, but I doubt it, I think it's the external temperature that is causing the high temp. I asked another friend of mine, he has a Duron 750Mhz on Gigabyte 7zmmh and the temps are around 65 (using a better HSF than the retail, though not the best of the HSFs). Another one has Duron 650 on the same 7zmmh and has temps around 60. So I think it's normal for 1000mhz to give 68C idle and 75C (max ~78) under load.

(Perhaps you haven't considered the external temperature because use of airconditioners is normal in countries like USA and summers are not a problem while you're indoor. Remember we don't have centrally air-conditioned homes here. Electricity is not so cheap here, so air-conditioners are only used for a month or so in the whole year, and that month hasn't started yet.)

 

[waqasusman]

Any ways, I do want to check the HSF as well.

but I think I should "not fix it if it ain't broke" because I am not sure whether the thermal paste (that came with the heatsink) would stay there if I remove it to check, if I have to apply some paste again, that would be even worse coz I don't have any thermal paste. I am not sure whether I'd be able to find it in the local market, waiting for it to arrive from USA could take weaks.......

Should I remove the HSF and re-attach it?

 

[waqasusman]

BTW I haven't yet dared to close the case, these temperatures are with the casing open!!

 

[SpiffyGuy]

I have a K7S5A and have similar heating issues. I purchased it as a mobo/CPU cobo through Micropro. The first mobo ran fine for about 6 months then just died. WOuldn't post or anything. I noticed some discolouration on some solder points near the northbridge. So I sent it back and they sent me a new board and CPU. The new board was a new version since it had a card lock by the AGP slot and a newer bios. So put all the crap back together and loaded up Jedi Outcast. Killed off 3 stormtroopers and it rebooted. This hadn't happened since I tried that thing called Win XP. So I started watching and as soon as it would take a load the temp would go up and it rebooted. I lowered the clock speed one notch and it ran fine. It has a coolmaster stock heat sink and fan in it. But what is weird is the case has exhaust fan in the back and PCI slot card right by the GF2MX400 vid card. On the front I have a 3 fan hard drive cooler blowing in and an 88mm on the front bottom. Still having heat issues. So I upgraded to a Thermaltake Volcano 7. Figured this would be plenty to cool the 1.4 Tbird. Nope. I have to run it at 1 gig or shut down. Not sure if this is the CPU or the board. Perhaps the monitoring is working right on the board? My solution is to build a new machine.

 

[Buz2b]

The board is not causing the heat problems. It is the ambient temps combined with most likely an improperly installed HSF and insufficient case cooling. With those (30-36C & 45-49C) temps, you are going to need a "tornado" of air moving through the case in order to get something reasonable. Remember, you will not get it BELOW the ambient temps; at best maybe 3-5C+ above. That could still put you in the 54-56C without much of a load. Order and get some thermal paste (ASIII), ASAP. Next, I would install at least a minimum of two 80-92mm intake and similar exhaust. Configure it to at least one 92mm fan as a side blowhole with intake air hitting the CPU/AGP area directly. The other intake I would install in the bottom of the case (assuming there is enough clearance) blowing upwards between the PCI cards and the drive bays. Next I think you should have one large exhaust fan mounted in the top of the case, between the PS and the optical drives to remove the pocket of hot air that most certainly will accumulate. Then also mount a rear exhaust in the same area of the CPU. Do not use low volume fans either. You don't need 70cfm but don't get 24cfm either. Remember, I think this should be the minimum you would need. Oh yes, and get either an AX-7, SK-6 or Golden gate HS with a minimum of 40cfm fan. Then, when the paste comes in, remove the HSF, scrape off and clean all the remainder of the old paste/pad and reapply new stuff. Then double check the installation to insure proper contact. See, that's easy right?

 

[lsman]

Text here is a good site to buy large fan cheap.

however, they ship ups only, not quick shipping speed (may take 2-3 days to process) and no tracking number provided. min. $25. But their fans are $4, $5 for 92MM or even 120mm.
Get 2 of the 120mm. One on side, one on top of case!!

 

[waqasusman]

Thank you all for replying!

SpiffyGuy, I don't think it's the mobo or the processor to be blamed in my case, it's the room temperature, and btw I can't afford to "build a new system" as a solution but your case is extreme, an athlon 1.4 can run only at 1.0, too much. Even at room temperatures like 35-40'C I haven't seen such problems. I have many a friend who bought 1.33 Tbird a few weeks ago, his is running fine, another got 1600+ many months ago, and I haven't heard about any problems.

 

[waqasusman]

Buz2b, thanks for suggesting the setup in detail. I would be glad if I get the temperature down to 60 under load (currently it goes up to ~78 under maximum load)

Next, I would install at least a minimum of two 80-92mm intake and similar exhaust. Configure it to at least one 92mm fan as a side blowhole with intake air hitting the CPU/AGP area directly. The other intake I would install in the bottom of the case (assuming there is enough clearance) blowing upwards between the PCI cards and the drive bays. Next I think you should have one large exhaust fan mounted in the top of the case, between the PS and the optical drives to remove the pocket of hot air that most certainly will accumulate. Then also mount a rear exhaust in the same area of the CPU.

I have this casing (Promedia, bought 3 years ago) in which PSU and CDROMs are at the bottom, and the mobo is above it, the PCI cards are at the top. That is almost a completely inverted regular casing.
Casing.jpg

So I should invert what you suggested.

So, I should install one intake as a side blowhole (near the bottom) with intake air hitting the CPU/AGP are directly
One intake at the top of the case near PCI cards but where? A side blowhole like the one near CPU?
Then the exhaust, where should the exhaust be in this case? Between the PSU and the CDROMs?
"Then also a rear exhaust in the same area of the CPU" Where?

 

[Buz2b]

OK, are you sure you are not "pulling our leg" on that case? It looks like someone just took a picture of a "normal" case and turned the picture upside-down. However, I'll bite and assume it is as shown. First, a change. I would not put an intake in the bottom. Instead I would put two fans, side-by-side, as intakes (blowholes, whatever) over the CPU area. Two 80mm's, side-by-side should do the job. Next, you will need to see (I can't really tell) how much room you have for a rear exhaust fan (or fans). You might have to use 50 or 60mm fans, (two instead of one). I would mount them on the back wall of the case, just above the PS and on the same level as the CPU. As I said, you might have to use two smaller fans instead of one larger one. In that case just cut the holes one above the other. Then, I would also still mount an additional exhaust fan on the top of the case. Since there doesn't seem to be any obstructions that a "normal" case would have (like the PS and optical drives), then just mount it in the center. That would also be an 80mm or 92mm. Now, keep in mind that you could use larger fans than I suggested. Then you would be able to move the same or larger amounts of air at less rpm and less noise. It is your choice. The (exhaust) fans on the back of the case will be the tricky ones. I have this same setup on my case. I could only use 60mm fans. I just got a couple of mid level HS fans for this. Both are exhaust and move quite a bit of air out. It was tough cutting through the back wall in that tight space with a dremel, but it just takes a bit of patience. Good Luck and good cutting!

 

[tenoc]

Wow, that is the mother of screwed cases! Zero airflow closed up.

Yeah, a fan or two blowing at the cpu looks like the only solution. Maybe an exit fan in the top panel?

 

[waqasusman]

Thanks buz2b, I went to the market but couldn't find those sizes. I'll order it online I guess.

That really IS the picture of case as it is, not inverted. I've been busy, I'll post the complete picture later on.

 

[waqasusman]

Here's the picture. Now do you believe me?

http://www.pbase.com/image/2404794

 

[cr4pz0r]

UGH! Hot air only rises, so there's no place for that hot air to go but to go screw up your PCI and AGP cards! And your case has no provision for an exhaust fan mounted at the high part of the case without major modifications. And even if you put one in, it wouldn't help much.

 

[lsman]

now, see how the design of this case. I will suggest a easy solution. Get a powerful fan on side and right on top of the CPU. Then build a duct to direct the air from CPU to fan (kind of like extension for the HSF to the side fan). Mfg. like Dell and gateway did it before. You can build it out of card board, tape ! easy and works.

 

[Buz2b]

OK, I see your case in all it's glory. Wow, what a problem. However, unlike others mentioned, you can install an exhaust fan up high in the case; just not on the very top. The "clue" to this is in the side of your case itself. There is a square "vent" punched into the side (very near the top) of the case that shows in this picture. Mount the fan behind that; blowing out to exhaust. Even better would be to cut away the metal that is there that would be in front of the fan, as it will effect the airflow. Just install a fan grill instead. That location is right near the top and should do nicely for an exhaust. Get a good strong 80 or 92mm fan for it. And don't forget to put the two down lower blowing in (intake) on the cpu area and one on the back wall, just above the PS for exhaust also. Make sure that you cover and seal everything in the case when cutting that one on the back wall. Using a dremel, tons of fine metal particles will be flying about and those can short and kill a MB very quickly. Also be sure and use some canned air to blow out the case afterwords really well. The fan istallations on the sides of the case will be less "dangerous" since you can remove the cover.

 

[waqasusman]

Thanks once again for replying.

Thanks Isman, that website you suggested is great, there is toooo much variety for a first time visitor like me. After looking at the spec sheets of more than a dozen fans, I have filtered two of them with the best combination of min noise and max CFM:

<b>Option# 1:<b>
Item ES1333
Innovative Fan PN SP802512M Used 80mm 12VDC .16A Fans.
Unit Price $2.50 each.

Specs weren't listed, but I searched for Innovative fan on google that returned a page Specs These are specs for .16A 80mm Innovative fans (which I presume is the one listed at the excess-solutions.com), 34.4CFM, 2650RPM, 30dBA.

5 of these 80mm 34.4CFM fans, two at the side for intake near the cpu (above PSU), two for intake at the back, and one near the PCI cards for exhaust????? (a total of 5 fans, two sets, one for me and one for my friend, would mean 10 fans for $25, ie the min amount reqd to order)


<b>Option# 2:<b>
Item ES2049
Delta Fan P/N AFB0912H, 12VDC .30A, 92mm Square x 25mm Deep.
Unit Price $4.00 each.
Specs 51.1CFM, 2850RPM, 34dBA

3 of these 92mm 51.1 CFM fans, one for intake near CPU, one for intake at the back, and one for exhaust near PCI cards. (two sets would mean 6 fans for $24, almost the min amount reqd to order)

Which one is a better option?

 

[waqasusman]

I will suggest a easy solution. Get a powerful fan on side and right on top of the CPU. Then build a duct to direct the air from CPU to fan (kind of like extension for the HSF to the side fan). Mfg. like Dell and gateway did it before. You can build it out of card board, tape ! easy and works.

Would that be as good as having an intake near the cpu, an intake at the back and an exhaust near the PCI slots?
(I don't know, but my guess is that having an intake and exhaust at three places will have a better effect)

 

[Buz2b]

There seems to be some confusion so I'll try to lay out again what I suggest. You can always do what others suggest also but I think you might be confusing some of them with others.
First and foremost, you need to measure the space on the back wall of your case above the Power supply to see what size fan you can use there. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like an 80mm won't fit. In that case you would want to get two (2) 50 or 60mm fans(probably 60mm). These would be for exhaust; not intake. Then you would want to mount another fan up behind the "grill" area that is already cut out on the upper side of your case; as it shows in the picture. It is a square area on the case that looks like a vent on the upper (side) area. That fan would also be for exhaust. Probably an 80mm would do the trick but it wouldn't hurt to use a 92mm. For the Intake fans, use two (80 or 92mm) fans located on the side of the case over the CPU area. Personally, two 80mm fans would/should do fine but you could install 92mm with no trouble. That makes for a total of 5 or 6 fans, depending upon the area on the back wall of the case. If it is too small then you would need the extra fan. If an 80mm will fit, then you would only need five (5) fans.
Just a suggestion, this site also has good prices and they don't have a minimum order. Their shipping charges are extremely reasonable also.

My choices from that site would be:
The 80mm-24cfm panflo fans would be a good choice for the (2 or 3) exhaust fans, while 2 of the 92mm-44.5cfm YL Tech fans would be nice for the Intake over the CPU. You can get the panflo's for the same, 10 for $25.00. Heck, if you call them, they might even make you a deal with 8 of the panflo's and two of the YL tech fans for something close to that. Yes, you would be putting more air into the system than you would be exhausting but if you include the PS as an exhaust fan then the difference is marginal. Besides, you want a bit more intake than exhaust anyway. Good luck in your pursuit. BTW, do you have a dremel tool or a hole saw for your drill?

 

[waqasusman]

Thanks for the clarification!

I have checked the back wall of the case, there is enough space for two 80mm fans, in vertical direction. (for exhaust)

Then one on the side panel where there is a vent in the case cover (for exhaust)

Then two fans on the side panel near the cpu, above the psu (for intake)

I have to disconnect the internet now, I'll see the svu's fans later,

Thanks again,
Bye

 

[IFICUDIWUD]

Dude, why not just turn all your drive mountings upside down. and then turn the case upside down. then everything will be righ side up and you'll be rid of half your problems with heat. Then mount 2 ea. 80mm fans and a good intake fan..... Or instead of that might I suggest an enlight case w/340w psu and supply fan shipped from newegg for about 65$$

 

[waqasusman]

Or instead of that might I suggest an enlight case w/340w psu and supply fan shipped from newegg for about 65$$

Well, I am virtually all out of money, I don't want to spend any more on the computer stuff, have recently bought this mobo+processor+ 60GB Seagate B'CudaIV. (and $65 is not a small amount of money in Pakistani Rupees, esp when you're earning in Pakistani Rupees, the economy is down after the 9/11 events)

 

[waqasusman]

First and foremost, you need to measure the space on the back wall of your case above the Power supply to see what size fan you can use there. It is hard to tell from the pictures, but it looks like an 80mm won't fit. In that case you would want to get two (2) 50 or 60mm fans(probably 60mm). These would be for exhaust; not intake. Then you would want to mount another fan up behind the "grill" area that is already cut out on the upper side of your case; as it shows in the picture. It is a square area on the case that looks like a vent on the upper (side) area. That fan would also be for exhaust. Probably an 80mm would do the trick but it wouldn't hurt to use a 92mm. For the Intake fans, use two (80 or 92mm) fans located on the side of the case over the CPU area. Personally, two 80mm fans would/should do fine but you could install 92mm with no trouble. That makes for a total of 5 or 6 fans, depending upon the area on the back wall of the case. If it is too small then you would need the extra fan. If an 80mm will fit, then you would only need five (5) fans.
.....
Yes, you would be putting more air into the system than you would be exhausting but if you include the PS as an exhaust fan then the difference is marginal. Besides, you want a bit more intake than exhaust anyway.

After I read your message again while being offline, I thought there's been a mistake, you said
<2 80mm or 60mm fans on the back wall> for exhaust
<another fan up behind the "grill" area that is already cut out on the upper side of your case> for exhaust
<For the Intake fans, use two (80 or 92mm) fans located on the side of the case over the CPU area> for intake
Now this totals up to 3 exhaust and 2 intake fans, but you said in the end that I'd be putting more air into the system than I'd be exhausting. I don't get it, either the initial para is wrong, or the last comments are wrong. Can you please clarify?

Good luck in your pursuit. BTW, do you have a dremel tool or a hole saw for your drill?

Thanks for the good wishes.
I had not thought much about how to dril coz that's too far away, it could take a month or so before I get the fans here. I have an electrical drill machine, I was thinking about using it to make an opening, and then use a saw. I don't have a hole saw. Do you think such holes can be drilled like this? Or I could take the case to some professional cutter (of course after removing the mobo, processor and other stuff, labor is cheap here so it won't cost much)

 

[Buz2b]

Now this totals up to 3 exhaust and 2 intake fans, but you said in the end that I'd be putting more air into the system than I'd be exhausting. I don't get it, either the initial para is wrong, or the last comments are wrong. Can you please clarify?

No problem.
If you look again, I suggested using two 92mm Intake fans over the cpu (the last comments). Those would combine for a total of 89cfm for intake. If you have 3 of the 80mm panaflo's (24cfm, one up behind the vent, two on the back wall above the PS) for exhaust, then you would be exhausting 72cfm. So, 89 cfm Intake versus 72 cfm exhaust means more intake than exhaust. Now, you must take into consideration that the PS would also be an exhaust source. However, I'm betting that it does not move a significant amount of air and it's effect would be negligable. Perhaps you were confused because I mentioned earlier that you could use ALL 80mm, 24cfm panaflo's. In that case, yes, you would be exhausting more than you would Intake if you used two fans on the back wall above the PS (for a total of 3 exhaust vs 2 Intake). If you are going to use all 80mm, 24cfm fans then you would need to either add an additional Intake or just use only one on the back wall and one behind the vent for exhaust. As I said though, I think you should use the 92mm, 44.5 cfm panaflo's for the Intake. I hope that clears it up a bit.
As to the cutting of the holes, I suggest you look at your local hardware shop and see if you can find a "Hole saw". Or maybe even borrow one from a friend. That is, unless you can find/borrow a dremel rotary tool and some cutting disks. The "Hole Saw" does work; I just tried it myself a couple of weeks ago. Prior to that I used a dremel tool. The Hole saw is basically a drill bit with a round cutting saw over it. You can see an example of this on this page. You can use this on your electric drill. This is the type I used for a recent modification on a case. They come in different sizes of course. The dremel tool takes a bit more patience and time but it also works well. The hole saw is just a bit easier though and more consistant.
One other method you could use is drilling a series of (MANY) holes in a circular pattern; then "connecting" them with a file or small metal cutting blade. However, this method would be very time consuming and the results may not be nearly as nice as the other methods.
BTW, since we are into this this far, don't forget to order some fan grills to go over the fan holes on the outside of the case. I know, more $$$!! But, they are a necessity to protect the fingers and give a more "finished" look. And don't forget to measure the size of the holes you cut and allow for the small holes around them to screw on the fans with the grills. If you get the regular chrome fan grills, you can just trace the location of the fan screw holes on them to mark the case.