Help Me Build A Computer

[NeilPeart]

Hey guys (and gals =),
I'm building a computer for my mom, as she is currently using a Pentium 166 MHz computer with 32MB of RAM (the maximum the board supports - and SIMMs are damn expensive anyways). She has encountered intermittent problems with her dial-up lately (AT&T WorldNet on an external USR v.92 external modem - just wanted to clear up the problem is NOT related to the hardware). I went away for a week and I let her use my PC (AMD 1.33GHz 512MB RAM running Windows XP with a DSL connection) and she cannot go back to her archaic dinosaur of a computer. She has decided to buy a new computer along with a DSL connection (my computer spoiled her). I offered to build a great computer for less then what Dell could do - and she agreed! No monitor is necessary as I recently replaced her old 15" with my "old" NEC 17" FE700 AG Trinitron. I also bought a Logitech optical cordless mouse for her (they're so cool). Therefore I just need advice on the "box." I want to find a balance between reliability/quiet/performance/cost (in that order of importance). Here is what I have considered thus far (please make any comments/suggestions):

Case: Antec SX-635 $ 80
PSU: PP352X 350W Antec PSU $ 0 (included with case)
Fans: 1 Panaflo FBA08A12L in front, 1 in rear behind CPU $ 15
Mobo: Asus TUSL-C 815E $ 95
CPU: Intel Pentium III Tualatin 1.13 GHz $130
HSF: Retail Intel $ 0 (included with CPU)
RAM: 2 Crucial 256MB PC-133 CL2 (CT32M64S4D7E) $200 (!!! should have purchased last fall...)
HD: 40GB Seagate Barracuda IV (ST340016A) $ 80
DVD: Lite-On LTD-163 (16/48X) $ 60
CDRW: Lite-On LTR-40125S (40/12/48X) $100 (!!! AWESOME deal)
VGA: Matrox G550 32MB DDR Dual Display (VGA/DVI) $100 (will this be enough horsepower to play the occasional Half-Life, etc - when I visit and get a quick game in)
Sound: On-board C-Media Hardware $ 0 (included with mobo)
NIC: 3com 3C905C $ 0 (pull from her current PC)
S&H/Tax: $100 (a rough estimation)

Total: $960

Thanks for any input or comments you may have. I apologize for the long post, but I truly need the help of the experts.

Leeav Amar

 

[murphy55d]

You can get a 1.0 ghz Duron + a decent motherboard(ECS) combined for roughly the price of that P3 alone retail at NewEgg. (I know, I just checked, read my thread if you want to see further)

 

[cleverhandle]

Actually, you put together a pretty nice, and appropriate, system without the help of the experts.

There are a few areas where you might cut costs a bit if she balks at the $960 (+$100 OS + software) - she could do fine with 256MB RAM (even in XP) unless she does a lot more task switching than my mom does, and the G450 would save about $25 and be perfectly adequate as well. But certainly go for what you listed if the extra $125 is not a problem. Except for the optical drives (which I don't keep track of at the moment), the rest looks very good to me.

 

[Anubis]

looks like a good system ut why not go with a AMD T bird 1.33 for 80$?? itl save you some more money and get a BIOSTAR M7VIB-A AMD VIA KT266A mobo only 69$
seing as shes not really gonna be usin the system to heavly thsi will be more then fine. hell a duron wold probilly be enuff just a thought

and does she really need a 40x burner??????

 

[NeilPeart]

Hey Guys,
Thanks for the prompt replies. I agree with the suggestion to use 256MB of RAM; it will suffice for my mom's usage of the PC, and I can always purchase more if needed (hopefully the price will decrease, but I doubt it). I own an A7V266-E/Thunderbird 1.33 @ 1.5GHz myself, and I'm a big fan of them due to their price/performance. However, AMD has three issues that prevent me from using their chips in systems that demand 100% stability and reliability (which is most important to my mom):

1. The chips run HOT which:
2. Necessitates a large PAL8045/Swiftech MCX462 or smaller HS with a faster (and noisier fan)
3. Third party developers' chipsets are STILL not as stable as Intel's and even the Asus A7M266 has a Via Southbridge. I have had to deal with Via issues for a while, and while I don't mind the occasional snafu, I will be my mom's tech support. =)

Thanks again for the comments - keep 'em coming! (Yeah, I DO need a 40X burner, err...I mean SHE needs it, yeah...=)

Leeav Amar

 

[Pabster]

Another frustrated VIA victim turns to Intel

I'd recommend one of two solutions -- either a 1GHz Duron w/ the ECS K7S5A (no VIA bullsh!t to deal with, SiS 735 is solid as a rock, board and CPU for less than the P3 alone!) or, if you prefer the Intel route, a Northwood 1.6A coupled with the ASUS P4B266-C. It won't cost a whole lot more than the P3 setup you refer to, but will spank the snot out of it performance-wise.

Your concerns with AMD processors are duly noted. They do run hot, but that alone isn't enough to dissuade yours truly. What really yanks my chain is the fact that AMD has failed to implement core logic to handle a "heat emergency", rather, they are relying on motherboard manufacturers and third-party chipset manufacturers' to haphazardly implement some sort of thermal protection.

 

[jcmkk]

Why don't you go with a Pentium 4 solution for just a tiny premium. You can get an ASUS P4B266-C for about $110, 1.6A for about $130, and DDR is about evenly priced with PC133 now.

 

[jcmkk]

Sorry, I didn't read pabsters thread too well. I was just reading the beginning of each thread looking for Pentium 4 suggestions. Well, you've got 2 votes for a P4 solution.

 

[NeilPeart]

Thanks for all the input. I decided to alter the system a little and replace the aging PIII platform with a more modern PIV. This system is not plagued by the heat (and thus noise) related issues of the Athlon (though the Athlon does kick ass - I own one myself). It is also based on the STABLE and fast Intel 845D chipset, which will mean less headaches to deal with (no Via latency, 4-in1 drivers, etc.). Also, 256MB will be sufficient for my mom needs as of now, and if she requires more I can upgrade her system with little fuss (and maybe it will be cheaper =). Thanks for all your help. If you have more suggestions and/or comments feel free to speak your mind! Here is the updated system.

Case: Antec SX-635 $ 85
PSU: PP352X 350W Antec PSU $ 0 (included with case)
Fans: 1 Panaflo FBA08A12L in front, 1 in rear behind CPU $ 15
Mobo: Asus P4B266 $150
CPU: Intel Pentium IV 1.6AGHz (Northwood) $150
HSF: Retail Intel $ 0 (included with CPU)
RAM: Crucial 256MB DDR (CT3264Z265) $100 (!!! should have purchased last fall...)
HD: 40GB Seagate Barracuda IV (ST340016A) $ 80
DVD: Lite-On LTD-163 (16/48X) $ 50
CDRW: Lite-On LTR-40125S (40/12/48X) $120 (!!! AWESOME deal)
VGA: Visiontek GeForce 4 MX 420 $115 (It's enough horsepower for her needs and for me to fire up the occasional game & it requires only passive cooling = silent)
Sound: On-board C-Media Hardware $ 0 (included with mobo)
NIC: 3com 3C905C $ 0 (pull from her current PC)
S&H/Tax: $100 (a rough estimation)

Total: $965

Thanks again.

Leeav Amar

 

[cleverhandle]

To be honest, it's a very nice system, but IMO you're now building a machine for you instead of for her. The Matrox card would provide better image quality on the 2D apps your mom will use (assuming, again, that she's like my mom, and not playing Half-Life in her spare time). And the extra CPU power is just unnecessary for typical office and web use.

 

[MoboN00B]

if you live near a Fry's i suggest you pick up one of their mobo combos. They usually have a good deal of AMD XP 1700+ w/ a good mobo for around $160 and up.

also I think the system is a tad overkill (if it is truly for your mom) figuring she use to be on a P166 I don't think she did much except word processing and web browsing. so I suggest a configuration below:

Case: ANTEC Workstation Tower Model SX830 @ newegg.com $79 (if you're gonna spend $80 might as well get the sx830 instead of the mini)
PSU: included 300 watts should be enough
CPU: Duron 1ghz @ newegg.com $40
Mobo: SHUTTLE AK31A @ newegg.com $76 (minus $5 for buying AMD) I've used this mobo before and it is rock solid.
RAM: 256MB DDR, why not? @ crucial.com $100
DVD: would your mom really want to watch dvd's on her comp? why spend $50 when you could buy a dvd player for some more.
Video Card: Matrox G450 @ newegg.com $79 (great 2D graphics)
CD-RW: Lite On 32x12x40 @ newegg.com $90 (why spend $20 for 8x more? 32x is pretty darn fast)
HDD: MAXTOR 40GB 7200RPM @ newegg.com $79 (I find Maxtor HDD are the most reliable)
Sound Card: VOYETRA TURTLE BEACH SANTA CRUZ @ newegg.com $69
Shipping and Handling: $40 @ max
TOTAL: $647 + tax for 1ghz/40gig/32x12x40/MatroxG450/SantaCruz/Sx830/shuttleAK31A/256MB DDR

close to $325 less than what u posted for a system for your mother. Add a heatsink for $10 and a few Panaflows if you want.

 

[ahsia]

All from Newegg:

Motherboard: $104 Asus SiS 645 Chipset ATX Motherboard Model P4S333-OEM
Processor: $133 Intel Pentium 4 1.6A GHz 512K Socket 478 Processor 400MHz
Memory: $87 KINGMAX DDR333 PC-2700 256MB-OEM
Hard Drive: $76 Seagate Barracuda IV ST340016A 40gb 7200rpm
CD-RW: $110 Lite On 40X12X48 CDRW Model: RTL40125S-Full OEM
DVD-ROM: $53 LITE-ON LTD-163 SPEED - RETAIL16X
Video Card: $109 GAINWARD/CARDEXPERT GeForce 4 MX440
Case: $79 ANTEC Mini Tower ATX Case Model SX635 with 350 Watt Power Supply
Fans: $15 Panaflo FBA08A12L in front and rear
Sound: $0 Onboard

Total: $751 before taxes and shipping

Shipping from California costs from $40 to California or $50 to New York. If you are in California, taxes are rough $55, so like you said, about $100 for both.

ASUS P4S333 is an excellent P4 board, based on the SiS645 chipset, and supports DDR333. ASUS has a Intel845 based mobo, P4B266, but a bit more pricey. Either choice is excellent, although the P4S333 will support DDR333, so you will gain the performance with the Kingmax memory. And go with Kingmax since it is cheap and performs better than the Crucial. The video card is totally up to you, I picked one that matches closest to your choice.

Lastly, if you want a quiet system, ABSOLUTELY ditch AMD. AMD runs hot in the first place, and you need a HS that usually runs loud just to cool the CPU. P4 itself runs cool, and retail HS is more than sufficient to cool the 1.6A. As for performance, yeah, it doesn't bench as well as AMD Athlon XPs, but your mom will not notice the difference. If you have money to spare, get 512mb of memory. That will make a bigger difference than going with Athlons.

Good luck!

P.S. Noticed you didn't have a floppy, add $9 if you need one.

 

[Howard]

Welcome to the Anandtech Forums, NeilPeart.

Here is what I suggest:

From Newegg.com

AMD Duron 1GHz OEM - $40
Thermaltake Volcano II - $6
ECS K7S5A - $52
Kingston PC2100 256MB DDR SDRAM - $70

ATi Radeon 32MB DDR - $44

Maxtor D740X 40GB 7200RPM - $79
Mitsumi 32x10x40x CD-RW - $85
Toshiba 16x48x DVD-ROM - $48

Enlight 7237 /w 300W AMD Appr. PSU - $44
Midiland S4-4060M 4.1 - $58

Total - $526 plus shipping

If you want to hear my reasoning, here it is. Your mother will never notice the difference between a 1GHz Duron and a Pentium 4 xGHz. While it may not be the cutting-edge in terms of performance, she'll appreciate the price difference. The heatsink will ensure that you never have a heat-related lockup - just don't mess around with the thermal pad. The motherboard is extremely fast (although still not cutting-edge, but what do you want for $52?), and offers onboard sound and LAN. The ATi Radeon card offers decent performance (a hell of a lot faster and cheaper than the G550, although it _is_ missing DualHead, which is quite useful, and slightly worse 2D. However, it is better than any nVidia-based card.) The Maxtor drive performs faster than the Seagate, is relatively quiet, and is very reliable. The DVD-ROM is quiet, but if you are going to rip DVDs I'd suggest another one. Like the Pioneer 16X. Last, the 7237 is a very upgrade-friendly case, and the PSU won't ever let you down.

The price isn't bad either.

EDIT: Heck, surprise your mother with great-sounding speakers.

 

[Howard]

<< AMD runs hot in the first place, and you need a HS that usually runs loud just to cool the CPU. >>


What? A 2GHz Pentium 4 423-pin CPU dissipates 71.8W. An AMD Athlon XP 2000+ runs 62.5W, cooler and faster than the former.

There are too many variables to explain, but your second point is also wrong. Just because enthusiasts use the infamous Delta doesn't mean their system runs unstable without it. I have a Coolermaster with a 10mm fan. Oops, my system just hung 14 times during the typing of this. :disgust:


<< P4 itself runs cool, and retail HS is more than sufficient to cool the 1.6A. >>


No it doesn't, and are you trying to imply that the retail HSF for AMD processors doesn't do its job?

 

[Relayer]

<< I offered to build a great computer for less then what Dell could do >>


Very hard to do now a days.

<edit> I just ordered a 2GHz P4/80gb/128mb/dvd/64mb nvidia/etc. DELL for $951 shipped with a 3 year on site warranty for someone at work. No way I could build one for that.</edit>

 

[ahsia]

<<

<< AMD runs hot in the first place, and you need a HS that usually runs loud just to cool the CPU. >>


What? A 2GHz Pentium 4 423-pin CPU dissipates 71.8W. An AMD Athlon XP 2000+ runs 62.5W, cooler and faster than the former.

There are too many variables to explain, but your second point is also wrong. Just because enthusiasts use the infamous Delta doesn't mean their system runs unstable without it. I have a Coolermaster with a 10mm fan. Oops, my system just hung 14 times during the typing of this. :disgust:


<< P4 itself runs cool, and retail HS is more than sufficient to cool the 1.6A. >>


No it doesn't, and are you trying to imply that the retail HSF for AMD processors doesn't do its job? >>



I'm not going to get into a big argument here with you. The new Northwoods run damn cool, my 1.6A is running at 2320MHz at less than 35C. And I never said AMD systems without great cooling will have stability issues, but fact is that most Athlons run near 50C idle unless you have a $20+ HS, and most of them are LOUD. Yes, retail HSF for AMD processor DOES NOT do its job, which is why AMD OEM processors sell better than retail, because most people are going to get their own choice of HSF anyways. How many AMD users here can vouch for AMD's retail HSF? Yet you here Intel Northwood overclockers praise the effectiveness of its retail HSF as well as how quiet it is.

In other words, if reliability/quiet/performance/cost is your order of importance, I would take Intel Northwoods right now over AMD Athlon XPs.

 

[NeilPeart]

I would like to thank everyone for their ideas and input. I have decided on a system and made up my mind. Despite the fact that I own an AMD Thunderbird 1.33 @ 1.5GHz and have experienced only minor problems with it (mobo is A7M266), and despite the fact AMD's CPUs are much better price/performers than Intel's processors, I stand by my decision to use Intel chipsets, and thus, Intel processors are my only choice. However, it was a mistake to choose the Pentium III, as is it a dying platform and will offer little room for upgrades. Now that the Pentium IV Northwood is finally out and Intel has released a DDR chipset that is "BX-stable," it is once again time to return to Intel for their products. While I eagerly await the AMD Thoroughbred for myself, my mom needs to get her work done on a stable, fast, and quiet platform. She does not use applications that require the brute force FPU of the Athlon, nor does she play games (except for Solitaire) or do anything that requires power beyond a Matrox G450. However, she is a music fan (like her son) and would like to make "on-the-fly" copies of her CD collection. All these factors lead me down the path of Intel; she needs machine capable of expansion, with an emphasis on stability, a quiet environment conducive to work, and enough power to handle all her office and graphic applications being run simultaneously. She has little need for 3D acceleration, but the 2D clarity of the Matrox will serve her well in her office apps. 256MB of RAM will have to suffice for now, and she can upgrade later if need be. Her typical usage is as follows (running Windows XP): Outlook XP, Word XP, Excel XP, Photoshop 6.01, Winamp 2.79, multiple Internet Explorer 6 windows, Nero 5.5.7.8, and AIM. She is a multitasking user, but not one that requires 2GB of Ram! The system I will describe shall address all these issues. Thank you again for your comments and suggestions, as they were very helpful in my decision. My mom says, "thank you." Here is the revised system:

Case: Antec SX-635 - $ 85
PSU: Antec PP-352X - $ 0 (included with case)
Fans: 2 Panaflo FBA08A12L - $ 15 (one in front of HD and 1 in rear)
Mobo: Asus P4B266 - $150
CPU: Intel Pentium IV 1.6A - $150
HSF: Intel Retail - $ 0 (included with CPU)
RAM: Crucial 256MB DDR (CT3264Z265) - $ 95
HD: Seagate 40GB Barracuda IV (ST340016A) - $ 80
DVD: Lite-On LTD-163 (16/48X) - $ 50 (the fastest single-beam DAE drive)
CDRW: Lite-On LTR-40125S (40/12/48X) - $115
VGA: Matrox G550 32MB DDR (VGA/DVI) - $100
Sound: On-board C-Media Hardware - $ 0 (included with mobo)
NIC: 3com 3C905C - $ 0 (pull from current PC)
Total: $840

This may not be a perfect system, but I feel that it meets all the requirements of its user and establishes equilibrium among stability, silence, performance, price and ability for future expansion/upgrades. Thanks again for all your help.

 

[WarCon]

Looks like a solid choice to me...........

 

[cleverhandle]

Fair enough. Nice to see you putting so much time and thought into your mom's system - hope she enjoys it!

 

[Howard]

<< but fact is that most Athlons run near 50C idle unless you have a $20+ HS, and most of them are LOUD. Yes, retail HSF for AMD processor DOES NOT do its job, which is why AMD OEM processors sell better than retail, because most people are going to get their own choice of HSF anyways. How many AMD users here can vouch for AMD's retail HSF >>


Ever heard of the SVC GC68? I thought not.

If the retail heatsink does not do its job, that means it does not keep the CPU stable. Are you saying that AMD processors aren't stable with the retail heatsinks? And that is not why OEM processors sell better than retail ones, it's because enthusiasts would rather not waste money on a heatsink they won't use anyway. You're delusional if you think the retail P4 heatsinks are the best there are.

I can vouch for the retail HSF.

 

[Howard]

Your mom needs a 40X CD-RW to burn on the fly? Hmmm...

 

[majewski9]

Looks good to me!

 

[piasabird]

I have the TUSL2-C Motherboard and a Celeron 1.2 Gig Boxed Processor and it runs great. I compared it to my sons computer with an Asus A7V266-E with a 1.2 Gig Athlon, and I can't see any loss in quality between the two when playing video games. I used a VisionTek Geforce2 GTS-V 32 MB DDR OEM Video Out Only Card and it is a really good quality video card. The 1.2 Gig Celeron has the 256kb L2 Cache, and the 0.13 Micron Die process. It seems to run pretty cool.