Help Me Choose (or Build?) Mini Gaming PC

[adamwb81]

UPDATE:

 

[Termie]

Welcome to the forums, adamwb81!

Those Intel NUC-based systems are really impressive, but I think you're under-estimating the power of your current build. It would run circles around any NUC-based system other than the hot-running quad-core you identified. The 920 might be old, but it's not slow. The Gigabyte Brix has more CPU power than a stock i7-920 (and probably about the same as a highly OC'd one)...the problem is GPU power. It won't touch a 660 Ti, which is nearly as fast as a brand-new $200 GTX 960, amazingly enough. Yeah, things have slowed down a bit in the video card world.

If you care more about CPU power, though, you can definitely get by with one of these. Even better than the one you found is the Core i7-4770R-based Brix Pro: http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=4888#ov

For gaming, however, you're going to have to go bigger, and you're more likely going to need a discrete video card. Have you considered reusing your GTX 660 Ti in a shoebox-style system like the Silverstone SG05 or SG13?

 

[adamwb81]

Thanks

 

[adamwb81]

These silverstone cases might be good - I can't find anywhere to buy them though.

 

[Termie]

That gigabyte model offers a discrete laptop video card, which is to say it's far slower than what you have. The processor is very weak as well, being a dual core.

Silverstone has a lot of great cases, but the ones you found are prototypes. You might look at the current mini fortress. It's a lot taller, but has a similar style.

 

[mfenn]

That gigabyte model offers a discrete laptop video card, which is to say it's far slower than what you have.

:thumbsup: Yeah, by "discrete" they mean that it's sitting on a laptop MXM module, not that it's a full-size (and full-power) desktop GPU.

I think that a mini-ITX build in a shoebox or cube style case is the way to go here. A NUC (or clone) isn't going to give you both the CPU and GPU power that you're looking for.

 

[piasabird]

Maybe if you had a picture of where you think the computer will go that might help. Some people like cube like units some people want a horizontal desk top to put in a cabinet or possible a computer you can mount on the back of a HDTV. A lot also depends on whether you are going to use a video card or use the IGP.

Sometimes a tower looks just fine if the fans can run at low speed and the tower is basic black with no extra lights flashing. Since the edging on my HDTV is black, a flat black Antec 300 with no front fans looks just fine. Mine is an intel 2500k. The video is quite good for older games. That version had the HD3000 graphics.

Upstairs I have a cube like case CM 130 Elite. It has an i3 4330 with IGP HD4600 graphics and 4 megs of Cache. It was kind of a tradeoff. However, to get a video card in an ITX case is a bit tricky. Heat is a factor and so is noise. Those small cases just do not have much ventillation. Then there is all the wiring.

Some people might suggest just using an SSD to prevent hard drive sounds.

 

[ElFenix]

shoeboxes? cubes? in the living room? no. you want something that blends in with the stereo and stuff. shoeboxes and cubes don't do that.

what you want is a silverstone ML07. it's an HTPC case that takes a full size graphics card, but lays the graphics card on it's side via a PCIe riser board. if you'd prefer all aluminum, there's the silverstone fortress FT01, which is basically the same case but nicer exterior panels.

 

[RaistlinZ]

A 760 and 660Ti are pretty close. Why not just undervolt your current 920 and use what you currently have in a smaller case?

 

[Ken g6]

Here's a case you might like. Don't know about the airflow - though I think the PSU exhausts to the bottom.

 

[Yuriman]

I've built five PCs based on the DIYPC HTPC case linked by Ken, and find it to be an excellent choice IF you're not going any higher than an R270 or GTX960. You *might* be able to swing a 970 but airflow around the video card is limited. A blower-style cooler might allow a higher end card, but they're uncommon.

My HD7850, which is rated at 130w, runs about 5-7c higher with the side of the case on than with it off under extended torture with Prime95 + Furmark, with the rest of my fans tuned for silence. Not quiet, mind you, but silence. I'm pretty happy with it.

The case will support two 2.5" drives and a 3.5" drive, but I strongly recommend pulling out the 3.5" bay (above the video card) if you're going above a 100w discrete card without a blower-style cooler, as it aids airflow in the area. You could do a 2.5" storage drive alongside an SSD, or go with external mass storage.

~

Off the top of my head, this is roughly what I'd recommend for a generic ITX build:

1) Haswell Core i3 4160, or perhaps a lower-end i5. An i3 is an excellent choice for emulation, and is undoubtedly appropriate to pair with a video card up to perhaps a GTX960 or R280. An i5 would be a fine choice too, depending on your use-case.

2) ASrock H97M-ITX - cheap as dirt, reliable, excellent fan control options, built in WiFi, all of the connectivity you could want. Like all other ITX boards it has only 2 RAM slots. I have zero complaints about these that I've used in builds.

3) 1x 8GB DDR3 low voltage RAM - Because ITX boards only have two RAM slots, you might consider a single 8GB stick of RAM to leave upgrade options. Dual channel doesn't make a ton of difference on an i3 except for a few specific cases. Low voltage RAM is a plus - go for a 1.25v or 1.35v kit to save a few watts.

4) Power supply - choose carefully. A quality 350w unit is plenty enough for an i3 + GTX970 without a ton of accessories. 500w will be massive overkill for any build this size. Gold rated units will be quieter and dump less heat. Some PSUs are shorter than ATX spec, and this will help with wiring. Modular is a plus, but not a necessity. Pick something with a quiet fan. If you're going with the DIYPC case, a PSU with a single 80mm may be a superior choice than one with a 120mm fan, because of the airflow dynamics in the case - it will suck air away from the video card, rather than from around the CPU. I've put Antec Earthwatts 380w PSUs in most of my builds lately as they changed the fan they use (it's a quiet, quality NMB unit now) and they're really cheap, often ~$25 after rebate.

5) The DIYPC case is great if you're content with R270 or GTX960 performance. The build quality is pretty good, and it looks great. Go with something with a horizontal motherboard layout and vents near the video card if you want to go with something faster. The case fan included has no brand on it and it's rather noisy even when undervolted, so I opted for a Noctua as a replacement. There are other cheaper fans of comparable quality, but the accessories included with the Noctua fan attracted me, and were useful.

6) If you're going with an i3, the stock Intel cooler will probably be fine. It has *excellent* acoustics at idle, better than most aftermarket replacements, though can get a bit noisy under an AVX load with an i5 or i7. A tower cooler will absolutely not work in most ITX cases. I opted for a Noctua low profile cooler, the NH-L9i. Although it's only rated for 65w CPUs or less, that's very conservative and it performs significantly better than the stock heatsink included with i5's and i7's, at lower noise levels. Another option is the Scythe Kozuti, which is priced about the same and has similar performance and acoustics.

EDIT: I'd like to add, I think you might underestimate how small something like the Brix really is. It will fit in the palm of your hand. Most NUCs don't even have room for a 2.5" laptop HDD and instead rely on M.2 form factor SSDs for storage.

 

[Yuriman]

Here's how the DIYPC case looks next to a standard-sized mid-tower:

 

[illram]

Mini-ITX cases come in a variety of styles. Off the top of my head, there are shoebox style cases (SG05, CM130, Fractal Node 304... there are lots of these), stereo-looking or "steam box" type console cases (ML07, Raven RVZ01) and mini-towers of varying sizes (Lian Li PCQ08, Q11, BitFenix Prodigy, Silverstone FT03 mini). Two case makers who tend to make very sleek, minimalist looking cases that I like are Lian Li and Fractal Design; for instance the Fractal Node 304 is a popular mini-ITX case for the living room as it basically looks like a sub-woofer. Know that good airflow in some of these cases can be difficult as you are really stuffing things in there the smaller you go, so expect to hear fan noise when gaming. But with the right component selection and good fans you can have a near silent system when doing anything else, like watching movies.

But with mini-ITX it all starts with the case. Once you figure that out then you can work on what components will fit. On some cases you need to be mindful of GPU or PSU length in particular, or with knowing how tall of a CPU cooler you can fit (if you even need one).

You can also consider micro-ATX. There are some excellent micro-ATX cases with good airflow that are very quiet and sleek looking. For instance the fractal design define mini is basically silent when doing anything non-gaming related and it looks great. The silverstone temjin tj08B-E is a highly rated, excellent small case as well. With micro-ATX you have more room to work with so your component selection is not as limited.

I've built several mini-ITX & microATX PC's, they are a lot of fun but can sometimes be challenging to work in. I highly recommend taking the plunge and building one of these, it's very rewarding.

 

[sm625]

Due to economies of scale and depth of markets, the best value you're going to find for "something you can take with you in your laptop bag" is an actual laptop, not a mini pc. You're basically getting a screen and a built-in UPS for free compared to a niche mini pc. You can get some really nice off lease mobile workstations from dellrefurbished. You can find something like a 1080p 32nm quad core i7 with a GT730 level quadro GPU for under $400 when they have a decent coupon available. They just had a huge 50% off sale so it might be a few weeks before there is another.

 

[illram]

I did not notice the "put it in a laptop bag" desire. If you want something that small you are going to probably need to go the route of using an external power brick. The Brix you found earlier with the alleged "760" in it would work for this, or the alienware alpha, which is apparently an overclocked GTX 860M. There are coupon deals on that bringing it down $100 sometimes, be on the lookout for them.

A slightly less powerful option would be a tiny system based on the new Kaveri A10 APU's. You could put an A10 7800 in something like the Anteci ISK 110 or the M350 if you swap out the PSU for a pico- PSU or other more powerful DC DC PSU's. These are tiny, tiny computers.

You might even swing an A10-7850K, although I'd be worried about heat. I currently have an A10-7800 in an ISK 110 fastened to the back of my monitor on the VESA mount. I plopped in a The Noctua LH9i fan which is the only fan in the case (that's how tiny it is). It is totally silent unless running games. I get around 45-60 fps in games like BioShock Infinite and Bordlerlands 2, so it is doable for on the go gaming. I used a 160w Pico PSU and have never had an issue with this tiny little beast. I love it.

You could also go a little bigger and use a discrete low profile GPU in the Antec ISK 300-150. This case is small enough to put in a messenger bag and does not require an external brick, although it is definitely larger and heavier than the ISK 110. I believe the most powerful low profile GPU right now is a 750 ti. But watch that space as these cards continue to get more power efficient and thus smaller.

 

[adamwb81]

Thanks

 

[Termie]

You want the Intel 7260 wireless card, not the 3160. The 3160 would be a downgrade versus the wireless card included with the Asrock, since it's only single-stream versus dual-stream.

Also, I'd just give the bluetooth a try before buying a new card, maybe before closing up the chassis so it's easy to upgrade if you need it.

You can't get a stronger CPU than the 4790K unless you went to Haswell-E, and the only ITX board for Haswell-E, also from Asrock, is a bit compromised due to the small dimensions. I wouldn't bother.

Broadwell is essentially vaporware. It doesn't exist on the desktop market, although a weak Broadwell is being released for low-power systems.

One last thing - I'd avoid that ITX GTX 970 since you have space for a better one (it's a Gigabyte, not an MSI as you wrote in the parts list). It doesn't have to be huge - maybe the Zotac model, for instance. The single-fan model is going to be louder, and that would be a shame with a system this nice. EVGA's standard dual-fan 970 is also a fairly compact 9.5".

 

[adamwb81]

This

 

[mfenn]

If I don't use my 660ti (doubt I will) - I'll opt for the larger / full sized gtx 970 - I didn't even think about the single fan being louder but that makes sense. Any reason to get the GTX 980 or is that overkill? Any/all gaming I do will mostly likely be at 1080p.

A GTX 980 is definitely not great from a value for money perspective. You'd be paying another $200 for the privilege of having another 10-15% more GPU performance.

Is the Asrock a reliable mobo? I've always used ASUS. I don't mind spending more to get something that is rock solid. But the Asus had some questionable reliability reviews on newegg.

ASRock, Gigabyte, ASUS, and MSI all make quality boards in high-end assembly plants. You won't really find a significant build quality difference between them. The distinction comes with what features the boards have and how much they cost. If a board from one of those four has the features you want and is priced well, then you're good to go.

 

[Termie]

Great - exactly the advice I was hoping for!

If I don't use my 660ti (doubt I will) - I'll opt for the larger / full sized gtx 970 - I didn't even think about the single fan being louder but that makes sense. Any reason to get the GTX 980 or is that overkill? Any/all gaming I do will mostly likely be at 1080p.

Is the Asrock a reliable mobo? I've always used ASUS. I don't mind spending more to get something that is rock solid. But the Asus had some questionable reliability reviews on newegg.

I'll also change the mini 970 to this: EVGA GTX 970

I have the Asrock board you're considering, and it's been perfect over nearly a year of regular use. I'd recommend it.