Help me get a BetaBrite sign communicating with my PC

[cdr]

Hi - not sure where to post this, but since this is more an electronics problem than a computer problem, I thought I'd try here.

I picked up a BetaBrite LED sign for cheap (remember those?), model 213c. I want to get it communicating with my computer, but all my attempts so far have failed.

I wired a DB9/RJ12 adapter and got a RJ12 crossover cable as described here (the page says "not tested with betabrite", but from what I've read elsewhere it should work the same).

When I try any of the programs for communicating with the BetaBrite, nothing happens - the sign just keeps playing the default demo reel and there's no indication it received anything.

I verified the pins and tested the continuity of the cable and the adapter with a multimeter, the only thing I know to do. I'm not an electronics person, unfortunately.

I also watched my serial port with portmon and verified that data was being written to it. I also tried all sorts of baud rates and other port settings, to no effect.

Any ideas on how to proceed with troubleshooting? I guess the port on the sign could be bad, but that seems unlikely to me. With a multimeter, how would I detect that information is coming across the cable, assuming that's possible?

Also, if anyone knows of a better forum to ask about LED signs, let me know.

 

[William Gaatjes]

I do not know if this helps but i found this :

I think you need to make a null modem with loop back handshaking cable :

http://www.lammertbies.nl/comm/info/RS-232_null_modem.html#loop

You need to add the connections : 7-8 of db9.
You need to add the connections : 1-4-6 of db9.
Maybe that is what you need...

If that does not work try the wiring below in the quote.
I lost the html address. But the poster mentioned that it works for betabright models.
Maybe you can try the wiring from the quote first.

I also wrote a Borland tubo basic program that can help start with software side of this project.




Connectors pin out :

RJ12----------------------DB9 (Female)

1 Signal ground-----------1 DCD

2 Not Connected----------2 Rxd

3 RxD--------------------3 TxD

4 TxD--------------------4 DTR

5 Not Connected---------5 Signal Ground

6 Not Connected---------6 DSR

-------------------------7 RTS

-------------------------8 CTS

-------------------------9 RI ( not used).


Cable wiring description :


Pin 3 of RJ12 to pin 3 of DB9 = RXD - TXD

Pin 4 of RJ12 to pin 2 of DB9 = TXD - RXD

Pin 1 of RJ12 to pin 5 of DB9 = GND - GND

Pin 7,8 of DB9 tied together = RTS - CTS

Pin 1,4,6 of DB9 tied together = DCD -DTR - DSR

Borland Turbo Basic 5.0 program 



CLS

W$=CHR$(1)+"Z00"CHR$(2)"AA"+chr$(27)

OPEN "COM1:9600,N,8,1" FOR OUTPUT AS 1

rem goto 2

1 INPUT "text ", T$

input "color ", C$

INPUT "Action "; A$

IF T$="*" THEN 10

FOR L=1 TO 10

PRINT#1,CHR$(0);

NEXT L

PRINT#1,w$;" ";A$;CHR$(28);C$;T$;CHR$(4)

PRINT W$

GOTO 1

2 FOR L=1 TO 10

PRINT#1,CHR$(0);

NEXT L

PRINT#1,CHR$(1);"Z00";CHR$(2);"AA";chr$(27);" b";chr$(28);"1";"reset please";chr$(4)

10 CLOSE

END

 

[cdr]

Make a null modem cable for what? Debugging? Not sure I understand.

The sign should only need TXD, RXD, and GND. The client side shouldn't need the other lines either if flow control, etc, is off. The three line setup has worked for many people, which is why it's frustrating that it didn't work for me.

 

[William Gaatjes]

Found link again :

http://overscope.cynistar.net/archives/55-Betabrite,-Betabrite,-Am-I-Doing-This-Right.html


Maybe here the documentation you seek can be found :

http://www.alpha-american.com/p-alpha-213c.html



with this explanation it should work. ^_^

Connectors pin out :

RJ12----------------------DB9 (Female)

1 Signal ground-----------1 DCD

2 Not Connected----------2 Rxd

3 RxD--------------------3 TxD

4 TxD--------------------4 DTR

5 Not Connected---------5 Signal Ground

6 +5V-------------------6 DSR

-------------------------7 RTS

-------------------------8 CTS

-------------------------9 RI ( not used).


Cable wiring description :


Pin 3 of RJ12 to pin 3 of DB9 = RXD - TXD

Pin 4 of RJ12 to pin 2 of DB9 = TXD - RXD

Pin 1 of RJ12 to pin 5 of DB9 = GND - GND

Pin 7,8 of DB9 tied together = RTS - CTS

Pin 1,4,6 of DB9 tied together = DCD -DTR - DSR

If i understood correctly and you make connect the wires as shown here it should work.
There is one but, the sign does not output at rs232 voltage levels but at ttl levels. With modern computers this is not a problem. Ancient computers really wanted to see a negative voltage on the rxd input as well but most computers are fine with 0 to 5Volt signal levels being present on the rxd.

If it still does not work you might need a level translator as the max232 ic. Fortunately a schematic is easy to make in this case. Try above wiring first, if you need help i can draw a quick schematic for you with the max232.

 

[cdr]

Thanks for your help. I did find that link already, and I don't think anything in there helps me, though I might try wiring more pins together just in case.

I had already tried connecting RTS/CTS as suggested here, but it didn't help.

 

[cdr]

doublepost

 

[William Gaatjes]

I noticed that on the site you mentioned pin 1 and 6 are exchanged 1 = gnd 6 = +5V. That is one error. Another possibility might be that the software provided is using hardware handshake for some reason. Maybe as a dongle function.
As such you need to make the connections to make the software work. But indeed, if you write your own software or use software that does not need the hardware handshake, you do not need it.

Does it work now ?
I am curious...

 

[Modelworks]

Swap the RX and TX wire connections, sometimes people get those mixed up .

 

[cdr]

Sigh, this time I lost my reply by the power going out.

I am not using proprietary software, there's lots of software out there for communicating with BetaBrites. I'm primarily trying betacom.exe and LEDSignHelloWorld.

Tying 7/8 and 1/4/6 pins together had no effect - I'm unconvinced connecting more than the 3 RJ12 pins to the DB9 is necessary.

However, I tried RJ12 blue/1 to DB9 1, red/4 to 3, and green/3 to 4, and when I tried to send a message with the "LEDSignHelloWorld" program the sign froze (and unfroze as soon as the wires were disconnected). This gives me hope that I can in fact communicate, and it's just a matter of figuring out the wiring.

I'm not used to wiring cables, so the numbers can get pretty confusing. I've tried all sorts of wiring combinations and no luck so far.

Here's a pic of what I tried:

Edit: connecting white (6?) to 1 has the same effect of freezing the sign as using blue/1. I might have the numbers reversed and white is 1.

 

[Modelworks]

That ihacked link is correct.
If it doesn't work with just those wires like it shows then the sign or the pc port is not working correctly. Serial ports are pretty tough to damage but it does happen. Try it on another pc.

 

[cdr]

I'm sure my serial port works, since it works with my ancient UPS.

I really don't want to believe the sign's port is somehow broken

 

[ModestGamer]

I'm sure my serial port works, since it works with my ancient UPS.

I really don't want to believe the sign's port is somehow broken

Have you tried sending messages over the hyperterminal in windows ?Can you manually adjust you port speeds for signal timming ? regardless of buad if your signal timing is to fast the betabrite could be going WTF ?

 

[William Gaatjes]

Sigh, this time I lost my reply by the power going out.

I am not using proprietary software, there's lots of software out there for communicating with BetaBrites. I'm primarily trying betacom.exe and LEDSignHelloWorld.

Tying 7/8 and 1/4/6 pins together had no effect - I'm unconvinced connecting more than the 3 RJ12 pins to the DB9 is necessary.

However, I tried RJ12 blue/1 to DB9 1, red/4 to 3, and green/3 to 4, and when I tried to send a message with the "LEDSignHelloWorld" program the sign froze (and unfroze as soon as the wires were disconnected). This gives me hope that I can in fact communicate, and it's just a matter of figuring out the wiring.

I'm not used to wiring cables, so the numbers can get pretty confusing. I've tried all sorts of wiring combinations and no luck so far.

Here's a pic of what I tried:

Edit: connecting white (6?) to 1 has the same effect of freezing the sign as using blue/1. I might have the numbers reversed and white is 1.

When using the pictures i advise :

I think you really should connect the wires as this :

Pin 3 of RJ12 to pin 3 of DB9 = RXD - TXD

Pin 4 of RJ12 to pin 2 of DB9 = TXD - RXD

Pin 1 of RJ12 to pin 5 of DB9 = GND - GND

Pin 7,8 of DB9 tied together = RTS - CTS

Pin 1,4,6 of DB9 tied together = DCD -DTR - DSR


But first with your multimeter you must identify pin 1 on the RJ12 connector.
What you can try first is check of the gnd from the powersupply is connected with pin 1 of the RJ12 connector on the sign. If this is the case.
Then you know what pin 1 is. Then wire it as is shown in this post.
Then you can rule out that it is a wire problem. Another thing is the baudrate. You must set the baudrate, the stopbits and length to the correct setting in the comport settings of windows of the comport you use..

If you set flowcontrol in the comport settings to none, the additional wiring on pin 7-8 and 1-4-6 will not make any difference. It will just not be used.

Do not randomly connect wires. Make a diagram with pin numbers you have verified first.

After that i am sure it will work. ^_^

 

[superunknown98]

Just thinking to myself here but I see you are using the serial cable from your UPS. Is it possible the UPS cable is not a standard serial pin out?

 

[sjwaste]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dl...ffdbf84&itemid=250010872116&ff4=263602_263622

This cable says its compatible. Might as well give that a shot.

 

[ashish3]

Here's a pic of what I tried:

I might be 3 years too late, but leaving this message to help others like us.

I can see that you have the Rj12 to Serial adapter from monoprice. The colors are still the same for wires. What you have is exactly a mirror image of what it should be. I connected it like that (mirror image of what you have shown) and it is working for me.
If any one needs more information, just hit reply and I will provide more instructions.
Ash

 

[phlegmer]

Has anyone ever tried using a CA-42 USB to Serial adapter to program the sign? The CA-42 only has a TX, RX, and GND and have used it several times to terminal into routers that have been bricked. I've attempted using the non-BetaBrite software called BetaMsg.exe and nothing (this does work with a DB9 to RJ12 cable). I would think this should work since the CA-42 has the 3 wires need. Didn't have to mess with the COM setting on the PC for the DB9 but I tried the 7E1 9600 with the USB COM (COM4) as well as playing with advanced settings. Swapped TX and RX around just for sanity sake.

Thoughts, suggestions?

Thanks