Help me limit my choices

[jjanders]

Ok so I have a 2002 Mazda Protege ES just about to turn 70K. It's been relatively trouble free and I'm sure it has another 70K in it, but I'm looking to move into something newer.

I have a long list of things I'm looking for in a car and I've been having trouble finding models that meet all of them, though some of them are a bit mutually exclusive and I will most likely have to give on one or two of them in the end. I don't have a strict budget but ~27k would be an absolute max.

What I'm looking for:

1. Reliable
2. Manual trans
3. Somewhat luxurious (don't need all the bells and whistles, but sunroof and heated seats would be nice)
4. More power (current Mazda is 130hp/132ft-lbs)
5. Decent mileage (~30 on highway would be nice)
6. FWD or AWD
7. Something a bit more spacious, but not too big

What I've looked at:

1. Honda Civic. Like the latest styling, can get the EX-L with heated seats, good mileage. About the same size as my Protege, but only 140hp/128ft-lbs, so no noticeable power difference. Could probably snag one for ~$20k.

1a. Honda Civic SI. Like the above, except it has the extra power, but not the luxury features. Requires premium fuel. Not much more than the Civic EX-L.

2. Acura TSX - Meets all my criteria. Test drove one over the weekend, it was very nice, 6spd was nice and smooth. Not crazy power, but a nice upgrade and would be enough for me. Only downside is the price, it's on the very upper end of my budget.

3. Mazda3 - To meet my critera, I'd have to get the s GT. Would have a bit more power than the Civic (156hp). Not quite as reliable/lower resale than the Honda.

3a. Mazdaspeed3. Similar to the Civic/SI comparo, has the power but lacks the luxury, and a bit more expensive than the SI. Not too big on the hatchback look.

4. Mazda6. The lower models don't seem much different than the upper end 3 models, except for size. The 3.0V6 would provide more power, but mileage wouldn't be so hot, also to get the luxury I'd need the sGT which looks to only come in auto.

5. Subaru Impreza. Decent power (170hp), no luxury, mileage not the best due to weight/AWD.

5a. Impreza WRX. Checked one out on Sunday, I like the new look, though a lot don't seem to like it. Couldn't test drive since it was Sunday. Has more than enough power, good reliability. Mileage isn't the best. To get the heated seats would have to get the premium package which has ground effects, spoiler, and other stuff I really don't want. With premium package it would approaching mid 20's, the upper end of my budget.

6. Subaru Legacy. All the base model has over the Impreza is size. GT version is nice, but similar in price to the TSX, i.e. upper end of budget.

7. Honda Accord. Went and checked them out. Not big on the new styling, and as others have said, it's friggin huge. An EX-L would run in the low/mid 20's. To get the V6 in a stick I'd have to get a coupe which I'm not sure I want.

I've only test driven the TSX so far, but will probably be driving some others over the next couple of months. I'm not looking to buy until next Spring.

Thoughts? Any other cars I should be looking at? Any new models coming out next year that would be worth waiting for?

 

[vi edit]

Given the requirements, the TSX was the first thing that popped to mind.

The Subaru's (in Turbo trim) won't have the milage you want. And in non-turbo trim are rather anemic.

Is used an option? You should be able to find a used Accord 6 speed easily in your budget.

 

[jjanders]

Used is definitely an option. If I can find a car that fits what I want, I'd consider looking for a 1-2 year old model with low mileage.

Like I said, it may be hard to find something that meets all the requirements. If I really like the Subarus after driving them, I may have to concede on the lower mileage and deal with it. A WRX averaging 22mph vs. a Civic averaging 28mpg (mixed driving) would be about ~$500/yr difference.

 

[ValValline]

Most turbos are easy on gas as long as you keep your foot out of them.

My roommate has an '04 MazdaSpeed Miata, and he can get non-turbo gas mileage by using a lighter foot around town.

Of course the trick is keeping your foot out of them.

 

[zerocool84]

If you get the Civic Si, everyone will rev at you so beware

 

[warmodder]

2006 Audi A4 2.0T S-line? 200bhp, fun to drive, luxurious, might not get the mpg you want though.

 

[jjanders]

Originally posted by: warmodder
2006 Audi A4 2.0T S-line? 200bhp, fun to drive, luxurious, might not get the mpg you want though.

I'm avoiding the German cars due to reliability issues

 

[MetalMat]

Originally posted by: jjanders

Originally posted by: warmodder
2006 Audi A4 2.0T S-line? 200bhp, fun to drive, luxurious, might not get the mpg you want though.

I'm avoiding the German cars due to reliability issues

How about domestic?

 

[jjanders]

I'd be more open to domestic, though my experience with domestic has been terrible (then again, it was an early 90's Pontiac). I tend to favor the styling and reliability of the Japanese makes, but I'm open to anything at this point.

 

[amdhunter]

What follows is opinions of cars I actually drove.

As a former 2006 Civic owner, do NOT get a Civic. No joke. While the cars are great engine wise, build-wise, they are god awful. I've had nothing but problems with stuff falling off, panels not being lined up correctly, cheap paint, and rattles. Check out the 8thCivic forums to see the endless threads about build quality.

Acura TSX - feels VERY underpowered. My 140HP 06 Civic LX could dust one easily, with 500lbs worth of people, and 200lbs in audio equipment.

Mazdaspeed3 - Awesome car, but its hatch. I was just a passenger in one though.

Mazda 6 - GREAT car, I loved this car to death when I drove the v6 model. I could only imagine what the speed version is like.

Haven't driven the new Accord, but it looks like a Hyundai.

And my current car is a 2007 Jetta GLi, 6sp manual - 2.0 turbo. I love this car to death, it's got a lot of pep, and is EXTREMELY nice inside (although I have a Fahrenheit Limited Edition which has an upgraded leather interior.) Every single person who has sat in it is amazed that such a ricey looking vehicle is so nice inside.

I'd definitely test drive the GLi Jetta or Mazda 6 if I were you.

What is funny is, I am kinda happy about not driving a Japanese car for once. Dunno why.

 

[jjanders]

Thanks for your input. I didn't realize that the build quality of the Civics was that bad, from your response it seems like a widespread problem? Build quality would be a concern with the Mazda6 as well, I've read it's not quite as good as the Mazda3. And the V6 only gets 17/25, not that great.

 

[amdhunter]

Originally posted by: jjanders
Thanks for your input. I didn't realize that the build quality of the Civics was that bad, from your response it seems like a widespread problem? Build quality would be a concern with the Mazda6 as well, I've read it's not quite as good as the Mazda3. And the V6 only gets 17/25, not that great.

Yeah, the Civics are extremely bad when it comes to build quality. If you want to see this for yourself, go to a Honda dealer and sit in ANY Civic. Tap the ceiling right above your head very lightly repeatedly. Out of the dealer, the ceiling sounds like its about to fall. Now imagine that getting worse and worse and worse. Thats just the ceiling. lol. Just search for the word rattle at 8thcivic.com and enjoy the posts.

 

[warmodder]

Originally posted by: jjanders
Thanks for your input. I didn't realize that the build quality of the Civics was that bad, from your response it seems like a widespread problem? Build quality would be a concern with the Mazda6 as well, I've read it's not quite as good as the Mazda3. And the V6 only gets 17/25, not that great.

My cousin has the mazda6. It's a really great car that looks pretty decent to boot. It has pretty good gas mileage too, we used to joke that he bought the car and still hadn't filled it up since leaving the dealer.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: warmodder

Originally posted by: jjanders
Thanks for your input. I didn't realize that the build quality of the Civics was that bad, from your response it seems like a widespread problem? Build quality would be a concern with the Mazda6 as well, I've read it's not quite as good as the Mazda3. And the V6 only gets 17/25, not that great.

My cousin has the mazda6. It's a really great car that looks pretty decent to boot. It has pretty good gas mileage too, we used to joke that he bought the car and still hadn't filled it up since leaving the dealer.

Yea my mom has a Mazda6 5door with the V6 6spd auto. It's an 05 and she has the heated leather seats, Bose system (no nav) and it's a nice car. Decent power for the size and gets good gas mileage for the 6 since it's not a huge engine. It handles decent and it looks good too. There was a common problem that my mom had to take it in for warranty work, something to do with the radiator fan not shutting off. AFAIK that's the only problem my mom has had. It's been good to her. The only thing I do like is the speed sensitive radio. The volume raises as the car is going faster, then at highway speeds, the steering is too light for my tastes.

 

[Funyuns101]

I'm pretty much in the same camp as you... want a newer car w/some luxuries but not all. Power, manual trans, & mileage are pretty important. Except since I want the extra mileage, I'm not looking at the larger cars (Accord, Legacy, etc). TSX is out of my price range.

Anyway, some have said that the Civic feels cheap - even more people tell me that the Impreza (which is in the top 5 of my list) feels even cheaper w/all of plastic going around.

Here's a review on the Impreza on 5th Gear (I like Top Gear better, but it's just one guys opinion)... link
The new styling is okay. If it could get a little more MPG than I'd be pretty much sold on it because of the AWD. Otherwise I'm left w/the Civic EX-L which would be fine and the Mazda3.
New Toyota Corolla and Matrix are coming out in early 2008 if you care.

I'm not bothering with the SI, WRX, or Speed as I don't want to bother with premium fuel despite the extra power.
I haven't bothered to test drive cars though.

Best of luck w/your decision~

 

[jjanders]

Yeah it seems like the top two contenders would be a Civic EX/EX-L, or Mazda3 sT/sGT. Civic has the better fuel economy and marginally better reliability while the Mazda has a bit more power and is probably a bit more "fun" to drive. Price is relatively similar.

Since I'm not buying till Spring, I'll wait and see what the new Corolla has to offer. I've read some previews and it seems like it might actually be a bit less boring.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: jjanders
Yeah it seems like the top two contenders would be a Civic EX/EX-L, or Mazda3 sT/sGT. Civic has the better fuel economy and marginally better reliability while the Mazda has a bit more power and is probably a bit more "fun" to drive. Price is relatively similar.

Since I'm not buying till Spring, I'll wait and see what the new Corolla has to offer. I've read some previews and it seems like it might actually be a bit less boring.

A little less female???

 

[Ragnarok2]

Mazda is made by Ford so I'd already eliminate that. I just got my 2008 Mitsubishi lancer, and its pretty much amazing. Spacious, 5 speed manual, all for $17K. I'd definitely check that out.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: amdhunter
What follows is opinions of cars I actually drove.

As a former 2006 Civic owner, do NOT get a Civic. No joke. While the cars are great engine wise, build-wise, they are god awful. I've had nothing but problems with stuff falling off, panels not being lined up correctly, cheap paint, and rattles. Check out the 8thCivic forums to see the endless threads about build quality.

Acura TSX - feels VERY underpowered. My 140HP 06 Civic LX could dust one easily, with 500lbs worth of people, and 200lbs in audio equipment.

Mazdaspeed3 - Awesome car, but its hatch. I was just a passenger in one though.

Mazda 6 - GREAT car, I loved this car to death when I drove the v6 model. I could only imagine what the speed version is like.

Haven't driven the new Accord, but it looks like a Hyundai.

And my current car is a 2007 Jetta GLi, 6sp manual - 2.0 turbo. I love this car to death, it's got a lot of pep, and is EXTREMELY nice inside (although I have a Fahrenheit Limited Edition which has an upgraded leather interior.) Every single person who has sat in it is amazed that such a ricey looking vehicle is so nice inside.

I'd definitely test drive the GLi Jetta or Mazda 6 if I were you.

What is funny is, I am kinda happy about not driving a Japanese car for once. Dunno why.

Just because you had problems with the Civic doesn't mean everyone else does. Check out model reviews at Yahoo! and Edmunds. They have long term reliability ratings.

According to those ratings, the cars you are raving about are far inferior to the Civic. The TSX is a great car all around. If we only measure cars based on speed, the Mazda 3 would not be so popular.

To the OP, the Civic is a great car that is known for its reliability, gas savings and fun to drive ability.

Test drive these cars and see which you like better. I also had thought about getting the Mazda 3 but the resale value, so-so fuel economy and reliability concerns me. I am currently looking at the new Accord, but also considering the Mazda 3 and Jetta.

But to be honest, once I saw the new Accord sedan and especially the coupe at the Honda dealership, I am leaning towards that.

 

[thedarkwolf]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Mazda is made by Ford so I'd already eliminate that. I just got my 2008 Mitsubishi lancer, and its pretty much amazing. Spacious, 5 speed manual, all for $17K. I'd definitely check that out.

You think Ford is unreliable so you bought a Mitsubishi LOL

I was going to say check out the fusion or the milan if you like the mazda 6. May get more luxury standard with the mercury version then the Mazda. Just can't get a manual with the v6 from ford/mercury.

 

[zerocool84]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Mazda is made by Ford so I'd already eliminate that. I just got my 2008 Mitsubishi lancer, and its pretty much amazing. Spacious, 5 speed manual, all for $17K. I'd definitely check that out.

You think Ford is unreliable so you bought a Mitsubishi LOL

I was going to say check out the fusion or the milan if you like the mazda 6. May get more luxury standard with the mercury version then the Mazda. Just can't get a manual with the v6 from ford/mercury.

Seeing as Mitsubishi is the only Japanese Automobile Manufacturer to lose money, they must be reliable

 

[jjanders]

I realize Mazda is owned by Ford, but the Mazda 3 is still made in Japan and from what I've read, still above average in reliability. Still, you can't beat the reliability of the Honda motor.

Mitsubishi....I'll check them out, I've never really looked at their stuff before, and not sure of their long term reliability. In the latest Consumer Reports study they didn't do that bad, though.

Currently I'm leaning towards Honda, either Civic or Accord. I'll probably go back and check out the Accord again this weekend, maybe it's looks will grow on me. I like the coupe better since it's 4" smaller, the sedans really are big (classified as a full/large car). As much as I'd like the V6, the MPG isn't that great, and the 190hp motor would probably be fine for me and an nice upgrade from my Protege. The EX or EX-L coupe runs ~$21-23K invoice, which is reasonable.

 

[ValValline]

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Mazda is made by Ford so I'd already eliminate that. I just got my 2008 Mitsubishi lancer, and its pretty much amazing. Spacious, 5 speed manual, all for $17K. I'd definitely check that out.

Ford US = meh

Ford Europe= ROCKS!

The Euro Ford Focus is one of the best cars in the world rating higher than Toyota/Honda, and is nothing like the econo box sold here in the states.The Mazda3 was designed as a joint venture between Ford-Euro, Mazda and Volvo. The Mazda6 shares the same platform as the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan.

A little research goes a long way. Not all Fords would be on my short list to own, but they do offer a couple models here in the US worth looking at.

Mazda builds fantastic products. If anything Mazda has made Ford better through cross-pollination of products/platforms.

 

[evident]

Originally posted by: jjanders
I realize Mazda is owned by Ford, but the Mazda 3 is still made in Japan and from what I've read, still above average in reliability. Still, you can't beat the reliability of the Honda motor.

Mitsubishi....I'll check them out, I've never really looked at their stuff before, and not sure of their long term reliability. In the latest Consumer Reports study they didn't do that bad, though.

Currently I'm leaning towards Honda, either Civic or Accord. I'll probably go back and check out the Accord again this weekend, maybe it's looks will grow on me. I like the coupe better since it's 4" smaller, the sedans really are big (classified as a full/large car). As much as I'd like the V6, the MPG isn't that great, and the 190hp motor would probably be fine for me and an nice upgrade from my Protege. The EX or EX-L coupe runs ~$21-23K invoice, which is reasonable.

I have an 07 accord coupe, it kicks ass in almost every way. i get about 33 hwy

 

[Ragnarok2]

Originally posted by: thedarkwolf

Originally posted by: Ragnarok2
Mazda is made by Ford so I'd already eliminate that. I just got my 2008 Mitsubishi lancer, and its pretty much amazing. Spacious, 5 speed manual, all for $17K. I'd definitely check that out.

You think Ford is unreliable so you bought a Mitsubishi LOL

I was going to say check out the fusion or the milan if you like the mazda 6. May get more luxury standard with the mercury version then the Mazda. Just can't get a manual with the v6 from ford/mercury.

My 2008 Lancer was 100% made in Japan. I know Mitsubishi isn't as reliable as Honda or Toyota, but I'd take it over an American car(especially Ford)