Help me put together a server...

[AMDPwred]

<< What server software/OS do you plan to run? >>



He doesn't have all the details yet. I'm guessing Win2K Server.

 

[grumm3t]

I would really, really, really recommend buying a server from Dell... you may not like them for personal computers (although I think they are great), they do a hell-of-a-job on the server side of computers... Check out their site below.

http://www.dell.com/us/en/esg/topics/segtopic_servers_server_main.htm

 

[AMDPwred]

No way man, I LOVE Dell PCs. I've got a killer P4 system at work. I did mention Dell when he first came to me, but I think they want to try and save as much money as possible. I guess they could just get a normal workstation (like we planned on building) and use it like a server, huh?

 

[DN]

He has a $12,000 budget, he won't need to spend more than $3,000-$4,000.. Can we just cut to the chase and design a proper server..? Geez.. LOL!

First of all, saying he doesn't need SCSI and then saying it should be a multi-processor system is ridiculous.. If you know anything about file servers, they are NOT CPU intensive, you don't need more than 1, ESPECIALLY for 25 people.. What WOULD be nice is a fast, realiable "file i/o" -- why..? because that's what a "file" server's main job is, to serve files.. SCSI is the RIGHT choice, it's fast, it's reliable, it's upgradeable and would allow you to use SCSI backup hardware which is just another bonus.. By the way, don't get 3 80Gb, I'd suggest a SCSI-160 adapter from Adaptec and 2 bigger SCSI-160 hard drives..

By the way, as for hte CPU, it's not only a question of "downtime".. It's a question of compatibility and stability.. Performance of the CPU is, as I've said before, a NON-issue.. If this was a gaming rig for a teen who is on a budget, I'd go AMD, but it's not, so..

That's it..

 

[ucla88]

as was noted, it's probably more important to use scsi. the reality is that ide is nowhere near as robust and will get bogged down much faster in an environment dominated by multiple i/o requests. plus, you can hot swap and get very close to 24/7, allowing you to decrease your backup intervals with the same level of confidence.

there's nothing wrong with amd, but...

honestly, you're better off selling him any one of these than an amd system in an antec case.


i've never bought from wiredzone but they've got a nice representative page for entry/mid servers

at least consider it
where i would consider using amd is in a dual cpu workstation for graphics design, cad, etc.

another question. who is going to maintain this server? if it's you, focus on the easiest to maintain and most well supported/reliable hardware and not whose cpu price/performance ratio is better. if it's not you, find out who will and ask them what kind of system they want and are used to or you will have no end to your headaches.

 

[Windogg]

Why not get a entry leven Dell? They have a great $650 deal. Not only does it come with a 933Mhz P3 but the platform the proven ServerWorks ServerSet III LE chipset. I cannot praise that chipset enough. The mobo should be the same Asus CUS-DLR from the Gateway 6400 which sports dual U160 SCSI, onboard Intel 10/100 NIC, and 4MB ATI Rage. Just supplement with a few parts to upgrade.

Many people have mentioned what I will list but they are so important that they are musts:
Redundant Drive - RAID1 should be the least. RAID5 is ideal. RAID5 w/ Hotspare would be perfect
Backup Hardware w/ Backup Exec - Something decent that will run automatically
UPS w/ comm cable - Not only will it keep the server up but it will filter the power. It should never be more than 50% overloaded.
Good thermal properties - That is what keeps me from AMD based servers. Sure they will be powerful but the heat scares me. For what you want P3s will be perfect.

Other good to haves include:
Redundant Power Supply - If it cannot accomodate a dual power supply, get a mini redundant which puts two PSes into a case the size of a standard ATX poer supply
Hot swap drive bays - Again, for repairs on the fly
Hot spare hard drive - Gives a cushion of safety should something happen
Gigabit ethernet - standard 100mbps ethernet can be maxed out quickly nowadays. With $12K in your budget, the extra cost will be worth it. Or get dual or quad port nics if they have Cisco equipment that supports port aggregation.

Windogg

 

[AMDPwred]

I got a call from Jim tonight and he said they were leaning towards getting a Dell. That's probably the best solution.

Could you guys answer a question though, what is RAID 5 and RAID 1?

 

[ucla88]

raid 1 is simply mirroring of the data onto two identical drives. basically, you get the performance of one disk with the redundancy that if one disk fails, the other operates fine until you replace it. (actually, performance isn't exactly the same, but, more or less)
raid 1 doesn't require much computational overhead, and can be done in software. the tradeoff is you have to buy twice as many hdds. raid 5 is much more interesting. it requires at least 3 or more drives, and parity information is computed in such a way that, if any single disk fails, the array will continue uninterrupted. usually you just swap out the defective drive and the raid controller rebuilds it. viola, no downtime. the size of the array is N-1 disks, if you have N identical arrays. (i.e. if you have 3 36 gb drives the size of the array is 3-1 x 36gb or 72gb.) even better, the performance of raid 5 is improved over raid 1. raid 5 requires a dedicated hardware controller to compute the parity data.

storagereview has a good overview of raid (although you have to scrounge around to find the link), because there's alot more to it.


really, dell ain't bad-besides you don't have to service it (building it isn't the hard part)

 

[AMDPwred]

Thanks for that bud, it was very helpful. One last question, what is RAID 0?

 

[dowxp]

<< Thanks for that bud, it was very helpful. One last question, what is RAID 0? >>



ur kidding right?


i got tired after reading the first 10 posts, but i think a good dual p3 serverworks chipset and a good scsi like 10k 3 and tekram would be nice. dual nickies would be cool.... its a server after all. dont skimp on it just cuz they are 180mhz. give him the best u can give him.

 

[dowxp]

<< Thanks for that bud, it was very helpful. One last question, what is RAID 0? >>




oh, its data striping action.. speed i think is 20%? but data loss % increases alot. not recommended.. i would go raid 1 or 5 in scsi

 

[pm]

SCSI drives are more reliable HD's - the manufacturers data sheets indicate this: data integrity on SCSI is an order of magnitude better than on IDE and drive reliability is quite a bit longer as well. Look at the specs for a drive like the IDE IBM 60GXP and then look at the reliability specs for a SCSI IBM 36LZX - all of the other manufacturers have similar statistics.

RAID5 is important if uptime is critical. But I'd recommend an automatic backup system (to an IDE drive, or a network drive) over RAID1. And I'd never recommend RAID0 if uptime or reliability is essential.

I'd recommend ECC SDRAM for the memory.

Nice link to WiredZone, ucla. Those look like nice boxes at a good price.

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

I will have to agree with some of the others here that a proven Intel solution is probably your best bet. Not because Intel chips are more stable than AMD chips, but because you don't need the CPU power. Basically what we're talking about here is a workstation class computer, maybe a little more, that will be managing a Samba file server. The CPU isn't the critical element here, fast reliable data storage is. The others are on track with SCSI banks for active data retrieval and tape for reliable back up that can be run during the night (takes a long-arse time). If you think the demands on this server will only increase, you might consider a rack mounted solution for ease of expansion.

 

[ChrisIsBored]

I wouldn't listen to all the bashing of AMD not being good enough for a server. I can tell you a majority of the servers built by the company I work for are AMD based, and if there were problems, well.. we wouldn't be doing it...

Considering the last server was only 180Mhz, do you really need THAT POWERFUL of a new server? Wouldn't it look better on you if rather than spending a ton of money got it all for well under $1,000?

If you do go with the Tyan THunder K7, you'll need a proprietary type power supply... 460W's.. the K7's have their own specially designed plugs and won't accept any standard power supply... That's an added $100

 

[ST4RCUTTER]

Chrisisbored,

Choosing Intel over AMD is not bashing AMD. If the guy was in need of a CPU intensive server running multiple tasks, my recommendations would be quite different. In this situation though, I don't think he needs the added expense of an MP system. A one-proc server grade board with integrated SCSI will do the trick. Try to find a single-CPU based server board like that for the Palomino...not gonna happen. The number of server grade boards for this type of platform is much higher on the Intel side than the AMD side. This will change, but probably not for a little while longer.

 

[dbcrossfire]

get that with a couple of these

edit: the 36giggers at the top.