Help me spread my gigabit internet all over my home! Lots of details..

[jordn613]

I have Xfinity gigabit ethernet. I have pretty good coverage over all of my house, but with more smart home devices being added each year (some outside) and 4k streaming, torrenting, etc. being part of my weekly usage, I'd like to utilize my fire hose as well as I possibly can.

Some details on the devices: the core of my setup is an Xfinity provided Technicolor TC4400-CMT Rev. 3.3. Never had an issue with it. On the back it has what appear to be 2 ethernet/internet out ports. I've only ever had one thing connected to it, which is the Netgear Nighthawk X6 router that came from Xfinity free when I signed up (not rented, actually given free!). It's also generally worked really well.

Connected to the Nighthawk via it's 4 LAN ports are: my PC (gets close to a gigabit down), a Netgear Arlo hub, a Hue lights hub, and a TP-Link AV2000 Powerline Adapter Kit. The Nighthawk throws a 2.4ghz network and a 5ghz network.

These things generally have worked well. The Powerline kit has just been used to just get a more reliable connection to my smart TV downstairs and a PS4 Pro.

The smart home devices making use of my 2.4ghz wi-fi network are as follows: a Nest thermostat, several Hue lightbulbs, an Arlo indoor camera, a few TP-Link Kasa dimmer switches, 3 Sonos speakers, an LG smart TV (streaming 4K) and (most newly added) a Ring Spotlight camera that's outside. The Ring gets an ok connection but it could be better.

The other devices are an Apple TV 4K, a 2012 Macbook Air (torrenting, streaming), two iPhones and the occasional tablet, etc.

At this point, I've realized that's a lot of devices, and the bandwidth is probably getting spread thin, not optimally, not reaching everything well enough, etc. Additionally, having both the 2.4ghz network and 5ghz can get a little confusing and wonky at times.

Yesterday, on a whim, I decided that a mesh network would solve all of my problems. Did some googling, decided the Netgear Orbi seemed like what I needed, went to Best Buy, did the quick setup and...was disappointed and frustrated. I quickly realized this probably was not the right solution for a gigabit connection I want to make as full use of as possible, and it wasn't even as seamless and simple as I thought it might be regarding things just working. Speeds were slower than before, devices were confused, etc.

More research seemed to point to using an ethernet cable to setup an Access Point somewhere else in my house as the best solution (without fully wiring ethernet all over my house).

So: What can I do to just spread that bandwidth more uniformly and allow the devices that need the bandwidth to make best use of it? From the small amount of research I’ve done, it seems like an access point setup downstairs, closer to my media devices and my cameras (and several hue and kasa lights) is the best option without doing a ton of hardwiring.

How to properly do this is where I need a bit of help. I’ve ordered this Access Point: TP-Link AC1750 Wireless Wi-Fi Access Point (Supports 802.3AT PoE+, Dual Band, 802.11AC)

Once I get that, my plan is to do as follows: plug the Access Point into a LAN port on my router (doesn't matter which one, right?) using my 100ft CAT6 cable (for now, until I decide this is worth running an ethernet wire through the ceiling/walls) and set it up in my media cabinet downstairs. Then...I configure the Access Point to be an access point. That's the part I don't really know how to do. For example, some of my questions are:

Does it have to be ceiling mounted, or is that just what businesses typically do?

After I hook up the Access Point downstairs, what are the vital configuration settings (stuff involving SSID, DHCP, DNS, static IP, etc.) in the router and AP I need to have matched to make this work correctly?

How will I know it's actually working? Will my devices still connect to the same network names as they used to, "Network 2.4" and "Network 5" or will the AP create even more network names? I want to keep it to just the two (or even one, if that makes more sense).

Other related question that seem to involve Access Points:

Does a PoE switcher just provide additional lan ports for a router and also power PoE-enabled devices to just not have to deal with ac adapters or electrical wiring?

Anything I'm missing here? Is this probably going to get the job done? Any and all help and opinions is very much appreciated, thank you!

 

[JackMDS]

The principle is Only One Router for the whole Network.

Any additional Devices that are Router like should be install with without using the Router part and DHCP Off.

Example - Using Wireless Routers (or Modem/Wireless Router) as a Switch with an Access Point - http://www.ezlan.net/router_AP.html

POE Switch can connect to other ports (like Router switch port) and provide additional ports with Power through the CAT^ connection.

Ceiling mounting is your choice. Devices' that are meant to be on Ceiling can be used in different position but their best signal propagation when they are on ceiling



.

 

[mnewsham]

If you want gigabit speeds, use ethernet.

Powerline generally wont cut it, wifi certainly wont, unless you've got some super expensive client device with a 4x4 radio, and you're within 10 feet of your router.



I have 1gbps fiber, and all of the desktops in the house have a CAT5e ethernet connection back to the router. I get 850-950mbps pretty consistently.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

If you want gigabit speeds, use ethernet.

Powerline generally wont cut it, wifi certainly wont, unless you've got some super expensive client device with a 4x4 radio, and you're within 10 feet of your router.



I have 1gbps fiber, and all of the desktops in the house have a CAT5e ethernet connection back to the router. I get 850-950mbps pretty consistently.

This, this, this, so much this.*

Copper. Wire.

*Well, mostly. Powerline can sometimes work okay, but "finicky" doesn't even begin to describe it.

 

[jordn613]

Thanks for that advice...I followed it.

I've actually gotten in touch with someone who does home networking professionally and he gave me about 20 minutes of his time over the phone to talk about options and what his recommendation was. To have him come out and actually assess how much the labor would be to run cable from my modem/internet access point to my media center downstairs along with what other equipment might be needed is a flat $130.

If the cost of the install is $500 or more, that $130 gets subtracted from it.

His recommendation, after me talking him through my wants/needs (offload the streaming 4K devices in my media area, so an LG TV, an Apple TV 4K, a PS4 Pro, likely a receiver in the future to a wired connection, freeing up bandwidth for the wifi networks, potentially an AP if it's even necessary after this, etc.) was to have however many CAT6 cables coming out behind my media console as I want (each additional is only like $10)- for a gigabit switch that's enterprise level, which he provides for $90 and he said is as small as a deck of cards and handles the wired connections well, and the additional cables just to future proof things. He said the total cost would depend on the difficulty of running the wire, of course. The room I need the wires to run to is directly below the room with the modem and router, so I've crossed my fingers that it is not too painful. He said depending on the wall between the attic and basement, he may not have to do all that much but if not, it could be a decent amount of work. His rough estimate was $250-300 for labor if it's not some real bad scenario, but could be closer to $500 if we want/need the holes and for them to be painted and spackled and look professional.

Does that sound reasonable? I figure for that price, rather than driving myself crazy buying various products like eeros, Orbis, access points I don't know how to setup and optimize on my own, it's probably reasonable? That solution is simple and makes sense to me but tell me if I'm leaving something out of the puzzle, please!

 

[jordn613]

The game has significantly changed, for the better!

There's always been a little end of a coax cable poking up through the floor in the corner of my living room, a few feet from the media stuff (tv, apple tv, etc.) where I wanted this CAT6 cable run. I just brought my modem and router downstairs, connected them with that unused coax line, ran my 100ft. CAT6 to my PC upstairs, and...gigabit. I have a second coax in the exact place I was gonna hire someone to run ethernet cable!

So, if I understand correctly MoCA is the ticket, now. Does this setup look right?

So upstairs: Coax--> MoCA->modem->Router-> PC, Arlo hub, Hue hub all via LAN ports on router

Downstairs: Coax--> MoCA-> TP-Link gigabit switch-> TP-Link 245 for wifi
TP-Link gigabit switch -> TV
TP-Link gigabit switch-> PS4
TP-Link gigabit switch -> Apple TV

Downstairs MoCA gets connected to a gigabit switch, and the devices plug into it, including perhaps a TP-Link Access Point to boost wifi, yeah?

Anything else I should be aware of when doing this? Do I need to do any special changes in my router's web interface or the switches web interface?

 

[ch33zw1z]

No moca between coax line in and modem

 

[jordn613]

No moca between coax line in and modem

I thought (after having watched some youtube) that you need to essentially create a MoCA network, and therefore need a second MoCA adapter in the chain even with the modem?

Oh, does the MoCA upstairs get plugged into the router?

 

[ch33zw1z]

I thought (after having watched some youtube) that you need to essentially create a MoCA network, and therefore need a second MoCA adapter in the chain even with the modem?

Moca will behind the router

Coax in > modem > router > moca > moca in other room > layer 2 devices, WAP, etc...

The moca adapter will connect to a a LAN port on the router., And give you a LAN port in the other room

 

[mnewsham]

MoCA is only used for WAN in rare scenarios, and certainly not Comcast.

They use DOCSIS, which while uses Coaxial, is not at all related to MoCA.

 

[jordn613]

MoCA is only used for WAN in rare scenarios, and certainly not Comcast.

They use DOCSIS, which while uses Coaxial, is not at all related to MoCA.

Is the implication that this will not work as a solution? MoCA seems completely related to coaxial from everything I've read and watched. In fact, it stands for "multimedia over coaxial alliance"

 

[ch33zw1z]

Is the implication that this will not work as a solution? MoCA seems completely related to coaxial from everything I've read and watched. In fact, it stands for "multimedia over coaxial alliance"

No, if you have a coax cable between rooms, you can use moca adapters to extend your LAN, you dont need or want one between the line into the house and the modem

 

[mnewsham]

Is the implication that this will not work as a solution? MoCA seems completely related to coaxial from everything I've read and watched. In fact, it stands for "multimedia over coaxial alliance"

As I said, it's not used for WAN, if you want to use it for LAN, that's fine.

What comes in from Comcast to your modem however is DOCSIS, not a MoCA signal. Beyond that point, you can convert it to MoCA using adapters to use on your LAN. Though for gigabit speeds, you'll need Bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters, which can be a bit pricey.

 

[jordn613]

As I said, it's not used for WAN, if you want to use it for LAN, that's fine.

What comes in from Comcast to your modem however is DOCSIS, not a MoCA signal. Beyond that point, you can convert it to MoCA using adapters to use on your LAN. Though for gigabit speeds, you'll need Bonded MoCA 2.0 adapters, which can be a bit pricey.

I bought bonded 2.0 MoCA adapters, $130 total. Well cheaper than having someone run new CAT6 cables through my walls.

Is there any reason to think the two coax lines are somehow on different networks, and the MoCA wouldn't sync up between them?

 

[mnewsham]

I bought bonded 2.0 MoCA adapters, $130 total. Well cheaper than having someone run new CAT6 cables through my walls.

Is there any reason to think the two coax lines are somehow on different networks, and the MoCA wouldn't sync up between them?

I mean...they're totally different types of signals.

DOCSIS is not at all inter-compatible with MoCA.

The only ISP I know that uses MoCA WAN is Verizon FiOS, and they only use it at up to 100mbps (Because their ONT only supports unbonded MoCA 2.0), beyond that they require Ethernet, and these days they pretty much force Ethernet installations unless specifically requested not to because Ethernet installs support up to 1gbps speeds without issue.

Again, you're free to use MoCA AFTER your modem (and or router). But before that it's DOCSIS from Comcast.

 

[jordn613]

I mean...they're totally different types of signals.

DOCSIS is not at all inter-compatible with MoCA.

The only ISP I know that uses MoCA WAN is Verizon FiOS, and they only use it at up to 100mbps (Because their ONT only supports unbonded MoCA 2.0), beyond that they require Ethernet, and these days they pretty much force Ethernet installations unless specifically requested not to because Ethernet installs support up to 1gbps speeds without issue.

Again, you're free to use MoCA AFTER your modem (and or router). But before that it's DOCSIS from Comcast.

I appreciate your input but please consider I’m a real noob with all of this so it’s not all immediately apparent what is implied. I understand using coax is different than cat6 Ethernet cable. I just don’t see what difference that will make in my situation. I have one coaxial line in two different rooms. One room will just have coax into a MOCA adapter into a gigabit switch, the other room will have coax into the docsis modem into a router, with the MOCA connected via Ethernet to it? Or does the MOCA adapter go from the Ethernet out of the modem into the routers input?

 

[mnewsham]

does the MOCA adapter go from the Ethernet out of the modem into the routers input?

Everything should be normal from the Coax coming in from Comcast, to your Modem, then normal Ethernet from your Modem, to your WAN on the router. THEN you want LAN ethernet from your router into the Bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter. Then you want to feed that coax signal back into your coax in the wall (if you need to use a splitter, use a MoCA capable splitter such as: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00OTO99VY).

Then at the far end wherever you need an ethernet connection you connect another Bonded MoCA 2.0 adapter to the coax, and then plug THAT ethernet into your device (likely a gigabit ethernet switch to enable multiple devices to access your network using the least number of MoCA adapters).

Any room that needs ethernet, just connect up another MoCA adapter where needed.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Is there a reason you couldn't run the Cat6 cable yourself? I did it myself and if you can connect wall plates and plug things in, it's really simple.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

...for a gigabit switch that's enterprise level, which he provides for $90 and he said is as small as a deck of cards and handles the wired connections well...

This does not compute.

An enterprise-grade gigabit switch is much more than $90. A "deck of cards" sized switch is probably a 5 or 8-port, and those are like $20.

$90 would be a fair markup if he were installing something like this, which is not that small. (A switch like that could be useful in a home if you have multiple WAPs or ethernet based security cameras, too, so a larger-than-a-deck-of-cards switch is not necessarily a bad idea.)

As far as handling connections or performance goes, switching is a "solved problem" - even that cheapo 5-port wold do just fine.

I'm most just being nitpicky about what is and isn't "enterprise" stuff - a difference that makes no difference is no difference. But it'd be a shame if he were charging you $90 to plug in a $20 switch. Don't let people BS you.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

Is there a reason you couldn't run the Cat6 cable yourself? I did it myself and if you can connect wall plates and plug things in, it's really simple.

Some people go into convulsions at the thought of cutting holes in drywall.

Also, an experienced, professional installer will probably get the work done faster, without the several trips to the hardware store, cursing, 2-day Amazon delay, and trail of blood that accompany most of my DIY projects.

 

[cmdrdredd]

Some people go into convulsions at the thought of cutting holes in drywall.

Also, an experienced, professional installer will probably get the work done faster, without the several trips to the hardware store, cursing, 2-day Amazon delay, and trail of blood that accompany most of my DIY projects.

lol...well, I did my whole house in a weekend. I like doing things myself because I learn along the way. Much like building my PC instead of buying one pre-built. I suppose it helps that I had the tools and only needed the wire, connectors, and wall plates. If someone doesn't keep the right tools on hand I can see it not being worth it though.

 

[sdifox]

Chances are your cable tv coax are all terminated in the wiring closet where your electric panel is. Kook at the jacket of the cable and google it. That will tell you what kind of wite it is and what speed it can theoretically support through moca adapters.

Think of moca as a medium converter, so a pair of moca adapters and a run of coax cable can stand in for an ethernet cable run.

You need to figure out the coax runs you have in your house first before you run out to buy a bunch of moca hardware.

 

[mnewsham]

You need to figure out the coax runs you have in your house first before you run out to buy a bunch of moca hardware.

I've found most installations just use splitters throughout on a single run, without running multiple complete runs from end to end.

If thats the case, it shouldn't matter much, assuming the splitters aren't blocking the MoCA signal. All the Coax outlets in the house should run on the same network.


Newer installations can have Coax runs more dedicated and with less splitters, but that depends when it was installed, and how cheap/experienced the installers were. In these cases you may end up having to map out the coax runs to determine where you need splitters and MoCA adapters.

 

[sdifox]

I've found most installations just use splitters throughout on a single run, without running multiple complete runs from end to end.

If thats the case, it shouldn't matter much, assuming the splitters aren't blocking the MoCA signal. All the Coax outlets in the house should run on the same network.


Newer installations can have Coax runs more dedicated and with less splitters, but that depends when it was installed, and how cheap/experienced the installers were. In these cases you may end up having to map out the coax runs to determine where you need splitters and MoCA adapters.

actually, splitters degrade the signal strength. This one for example claims -3.5dB on each output.

https://www.amazon.com/BAMF-2-Way-S...527178324&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=coax+aplitter