help, need advice on dealing with a 17 year old boy

[HomeBrewerDude]

This appears to be a complex problem that will not have a single easy fix, but will probably have multiple aspects that need addressing.

You need a good family psychologist, preferrably one that will come to the house to assess the behaviors (both the child's and the mother's). You'll want to prioritize the child's mental health needs, identify short term and long term strategies, and prepare the boy for independence.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: dsity

Originally posted by: sixone
The best thing your friend can do is get some help for herself. She can't change her son, but she can change how she deals with him. And that will have a much more tangible effect than anything else she might do.

its funny how sixone's answer seems like the most reasonable one so far. Is it because she's female? (I hope your female, your avatar indicates so). Sending him off somewhere might leave him even more sour than he already is.

Sixone is a female, and her advice was good, but others have given good advice as well.

OP, why did the father tell him he didn't have to listen to his mom? Not that this matters I guess, but how did he die?

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
This appears to be a complex problem that will not have a single easy fix, but will probably have multiple aspects that need addressing.

You need a good family psychologist, preferrably one that will come to the house to assess the behaviors (both the child's and the mother's). You'll want to prioritize the child's mental health needs, identify short term and long term strategies, and prepare the boy for independence.

This will never work because if something like that were going to work, the child would be reasonable enough to listen, but if the child was reasonable then he wouldn't be in that situation at all. It's good on paper and good advice, but that will never fix a person who doesn't want to be fixed.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
This appears to be a complex problem that will not have a single easy fix, but will probably have multiple aspects that need addressing.

You need a good family psychologist, preferrably one that will come to the house to assess the behaviors (both the child's and the mother's). You'll want to prioritize the child's mental health needs, identify short term and long term strategies, and prepare the boy for independence.

This will never work because: if something like that were going to work, the child would be reasonable enough to listen, but if the child was reasonable then he wouldn't be in that situation at all. It's good on paper and good advice, but that will never fix a person who doesn't want to be fixed.

Except that a good psychologist will realize that the child is unreasonable. The key is in finding a good psychologist and not some whimpy little feel good therapist.

 

[Cattlegod]

Have him watch Requiem for a Dream.

No sane person would ever get involved in drugs/bad things after seeing that movie.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
This appears to be a complex problem that will not have a single easy fix, but will probably have multiple aspects that need addressing.

You need a good family psychologist, preferrably one that will come to the house to assess the behaviors (both the child's and the mother's). You'll want to prioritize the child's mental health needs, identify short term and long term strategies, and prepare the boy for independence.

This will never work because: if something like that were going to work, the child would be reasonable enough to listen, but if the child was reasonable then he wouldn't be in that situation at all. It's good on paper and good advice, but that will never fix a person who doesn't want to be fixed.

Except that a good psychologist will realize that the child is unreasonable. The key is in finding a good psychologist and not some whimpy little feel good therapist.

True, but it still seems impossible to fix someone with this much of an asshole attitude simply by talking to them. I have no experience here but I would think nothing short of kicking him out and making him fend for himself would be the only way to knock some sense into him. Hopefully he wouldn't end up dead, but who knows if he will end up going crazy on his mom or brother? I wouldn't know what to do, but I'd rather take a chance with his life than with the life of his mom or brother.

 

[GuitarDaddy]

Sounds like more than anything the kid needs a strong male role model. If you can't or don't want to assume that role, check out the Big Brothers/Big Sisters organization.

I'm saddened by all the reponses in here. Kick him to the curb, put him in jail, send him to boot camp. Everyone seems ready to put him in the trash bin, just because nobody wants to deal with the obvious and very understandable problems he has. I'm sure he feels like he's disposable and nobody cares and that only adds to his despair and bad behavior.

I have been involved with the local Big Brothers org and have mentored a couple of teenage boys in this very situation and they are always the ones that seem to be hurt the most at the loss of a father. The mothers and other family members are usually too wrapped up in their own greif, financial hardships, younger children, etc.... and just leave the teenage son to deal with his own problems and they fail. Everyone wants to overlook the fact that even though he is almost a man in stature, he is just a kid.

I'm betting that if you get him off the drugs(another cop out, we don't want to deal with him so lets medicate him), quit treating him like he's a criminal or a psyco and try and become his friend and earn his respect, show him a little compation and guidance and you would be amazed how quick he would turn around.

 

[Roguestar]

I read in the OP that the military is not the answer but I am going to post it anyway. Kick his ass until he gets his GED then ship him out.

 

[Zekial]

sound like he needs a good beating...or as my parents liked to call it 'wall to wall counciling'

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Citrix

Originally posted by: rocadelpunk
military/boarding school?

Culver?

need a GED for military. and camps are not the answer because they wont take him if he doesnt want to be there.

Yes, camps will take him. I had a friend of mine that was kidnapped by a couple of huge ****** Samoans when he walked in his house, and they flew his ass to American Samoa with his Parent's permission. Under 18 means your parents can bear trap your ass like that. Plus, what the hell could he do? He was with Samoans in Samoa. Like they are going to listen to the little white kid. He tried to escape a bunch of times, but they kept kicking his ass and catching him. Finally he gave up, got with the program, and he's doing great in life now going on 5 or 6 years.

 

[Mill]

BTW, I can pretty much promise you that a majority of his behavior is due to his father's death. It can cause quite a mix of emotions at that time in life, and part of some people's response is to sort of give up on life and do what they want. You've got to break him of that. Again, use Samoans. They are big but expensive.

 

[Fraggable]

Sounds like he needs some jail time. Best for everyone.

 

[Dualist]

Originally posted by: Zekial
sound like he needs a good beating...or as my parents liked to call it 'wall to wall counciling'

Time-outs are effective from a psychological standpoint when it comes to dealing with teens. Just beating them isn't very effective because it's a form of negative punnishment, with possible reinforcers.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
This appears to be a complex problem that will not have a single easy fix, but will probably have multiple aspects that need addressing.

You need a good family psychologist, preferrably one that will come to the house to assess the behaviors (both the child's and the mother's). You'll want to prioritize the child's mental health needs, identify short term and long term strategies, and prepare the boy for independence.

This will never work because: if something like that were going to work, the child would be reasonable enough to listen, but if the child was reasonable then he wouldn't be in that situation at all. It's good on paper and good advice, but that will never fix a person who doesn't want to be fixed.

Except that a good psychologist will realize that the child is unreasonable. The key is in finding a good psychologist and not some whimpy little feel good therapist.

True, but it still seems impossible to fix someone with this much of an asshole attitude simply by talking to them.

Talking to this kind of client would NOT work. This is why you'll need behavioral and environmental strategies, something a good psychologist will identify very easily.

I have no experience here but I would think nothing short of kicking him out and making him fend for himself would be the only way to knock some sense into him. Hopefully he wouldn't end up dead, but who knows if he will end up going crazy on his mom or brother?

No offense, but your lack of experience is pretty evident. Why discount something you admittedly know little about.

You're correct about one thing. Simply going to a family therapy session once a week will not solve anything. The mother will have to deeply change how she interacts with her son as well as how the home environment is structured. Knowing how to change these things will be best informed by a on-site visit.

I wouldn't know what to do, but I'd rather take a chance with his life than with the life of his mom or brother.

At this point, its a little premature to assess the situation as 'him' vs. 'someone else'.

Also, a good psychologist will identify not just the problem from the kid's side, but also any BS behaviors that the Mom is doing that exasperate the situation.

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: dsity

Originally posted by: sixone
The best thing your friend can do is get some help for herself. She can't change her son, but she can change how she deals with him. And that will have a much more tangible effect than anything else she might do.

its funny how sixone's answer seems like the most reasonable one so far. Is it because she's female? (I hope your female, your avatar indicates so). Sending him off somewhere might leave him even more sour than he already is.

Sixone is a female, and her advice was good, but others have given good advice as well.

OP, why did the father tell him he didn't have to listen to his mom? Not that this matters I guess, but how did he die?

he died from COPD and i have no idea why he treated his son like that. he did nobody any favors in the long run. when he was sick the boy had to stay home and take care of him. mom had to work or they would have had no income at all. social services was no help and definatly wont give you money to pay rent. so hard decisions had to be made the boys stayed home to take care of dad and mom home schooled them at night. that didnt work out to well and the oldest learned how to manipulate his dad against his mom. everything that mom said his dad told him "dont listen to her do what i say" which was pretty much do nothing.

I feel he will never be ready for independance and is so hard headed that the only way he is going to learn is when he is hungry, cold and lonely.

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
...

Take offense to my post, did ya? I said I have no experience with the psychologist thing, but I have plenty of experience with this situation. There is no talking to them. You have to let them fend for themselves before they will listen to someone who wants to help them. My sister is crazy like the boy in the OP, and I mean really crazy, so this isn't new to me (though I wish it was).

 

[MrDudeMan]

Originally posted by: Citrix

he died from COPD and i have no idea why he treated his son like that. he did nobody any favors in the long run. when he was sick the boy had to stay home and take care of him. mom had to work or they would have had no income at all. social services was no help and definatly wont give you money to pay rent. so hard decisions had to be made the boys stayed home to take care of dad and mom home schooled them at night. that didnt work out to well and the oldest learned how to manipulate his dad against his mom. everything that mom said his dad told him "dont listen to her do what i say" which was pretty much do nothing.

I feel he will never be ready for independance and is so hard headed that the only way he is going to learn is when he is hungry, cold and lonely.

The reason I asked is because I was curious how the relationship was between the parents. What does the younger brother think of all this?

 

[OutHouse]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: Citrix

he died from COPD and i have no idea why he treated his son like that. he did nobody any favors in the long run. when he was sick the boy had to stay home and take care of him. mom had to work or they would have had no income at all. social services was no help and definatly wont give you money to pay rent. so hard decisions had to be made the boys stayed home to take care of dad and mom home schooled them at night. that didnt work out to well and the oldest learned how to manipulate his dad against his mom. everything that mom said his dad told him "dont listen to her do what i say" which was pretty much do nothing.

I feel he will never be ready for independance and is so hard headed that the only way he is going to learn is when he is hungry, cold and lonely.

The reason I asked is because I was curious how the relationship was between the parents. What does the younger brother think of all this?

the younger brother hates the way his older brother is treating his mom. he is a good kid, doing well in school and has found joy in his drama class, its a constructive way to express himself. he is scared to be around his older brother and when he has to be home with him he stays in his room with the door locked.

 

[Superrock]

Find out what he likes to do and encourage him. Washing dishes as a job would probably piss me off too. Getting rid of his XBOX/ computer games seems like it would just aggravate the situation.

If that doesn't work I like the American Samoa idea.

 

[SirStev0]

My brother was causing a lot of problems after he snuck through highschool... Basically my parents and him were clashing... They ended up getting into a huge fight and eventually kicked him out. After about 2 weeks things got much better and both parties are happier. My brother got off his ass and is actually working. My parents are bugging the hell out him... Did a lot of growing up.

 

[nakedfrog]

Call the cops, get her to explain that she has no control over him and he's a possible threat to her safety and her other son's safety. It may depend on the laws in your state, but that could be enough to have him removed from the home and made a ward of the state. They will then determine was the best course of action is (foster home, therapy, etc), but that might keep him in the legal system long enough for him to reach 18 and be kicked out of the house if they decide to send him back.

 

[Kev]

Just wait less than a year and kick him out of the house when he turns 18. It sounds like you all have done more than enough to try to help him. When he turns 18, make him figure his own damn life out.

 

[Ulfhednar]

Psychotherapy.

 

[HomeBrewerDude]

Originally posted by: MrDudeMan

Originally posted by: HomeBrewerDude
...

Take offense to my post, did ya? I said I have no experience with the psychologist thing, but I have plenty of experience with this situation. There is no talking to them. You have to let them fend for themselves before they will listen to someone who wants to help them. My sister is crazy like the boy in the OP, and I mean really crazy, so this isn't new to me (though I wish it was).

no i didn't take offense, and I didn't want you to take offense at mine.

 

[Vonkhan]

military school