Help Networking Two Houses

[ArMs]

My friend and I have been talking about networking our houses, but we're not quite sure if we can make it work. From one person (a friend who sleeps in his CISCO class) I herd Cat 5 cables lose the majority of their signal after 100 meters (~328 ft.) and from a person who works in the same computer store as me, said they lose most of their signal after about 25ft. I'm pretty sure it'll go more than 25 ft., but does anyone know for sure how long a cable could be before I would need to put in a repeater to maintain a decent network with my neighbor? He measured from his computer room to mine and got 311 ft. I can move the HUB around if we're only off by a little bit, and we can even take a different route with the cable that could considerably shrink the distance, but I would really like to know if I'd need to get a repeater burried in my yard and what not. We also plan on encasing the Cat 5 cable in a hose or PVC pipe or something, so I'm not too horribly worried about line noise, just the distance.

 

[Hoober]

The signal will start to fade out and you'll get problems at 100meters. Have you thought about wireless? Not nearly as fast, and a whole lot more expensive, but it solves the distance problem if you're houses are within Cat 5 distance.

 

[ScottMac]

Category-rated cable is good for 100 meters.

It is a bad thing to run copper externally, especially between two different locations. To do so presents an electrical hazard that may cost you you life (or worse, your equipment).

Fiber would be a much better option, and is available in "exterior grade" flavors.

Wireless may also be an option, depending on your environment and line-of-sight.

Copper - Bad
Fiber/Wireless - Good

If you choose to ignore the warning, do a search with the word "Avaya." There is a fairly recent post with the part numbers for exterior grade Cat5 (5e is not available) and the entrance protection you really oughta have to do it safely.

Good Luck

Scott

 

[Jugernot]

100meters is the right length. As for going between two buildings.... have you thought of using conduit? It's probably a good idea to protect the cable somehow as most cable isn't made to be put outside. As others have mentioned, it can in some cases create a fire hazard.

 

[toshiba3020]

Use fiber. CAT5 will probably not work well for the distance between your houses. A friend and I did this, with fiber. Strung about 300 meters of it threw A LOT of garden hose, and burried in in the ground at night, no one noticed. Also, if you have to go across a road like we did, you can take the tar out used to fill a crack(if you are lucky enough to have a crack close by), then you can just fill it back in. It has worked great for the last 3 years, expect it to last a lot longer. Cost of fiber isnt that much more that cat5, just that the termination costs a little more, though you have one run. Nics cost a little more too, I got some for free(dont ask where, friend found em), but you can get them for sub $100. Just set a box up on each end with a fiber nic in it. There really isnt much of any other way to do it. You cant (easily) burry a repearter in your yard, issues come up for weatherproofing it and of corse, powering it. The other problems that can come with using cat5 is that I have heard horror stories about elertrical problems. Each of your houses have diffrent grounds. Should there be a problem with the cable, you could blow your switch, not fun. Also, although some dont believe it, that cat5 works like a lightning rod, except one with negative effects. And a final note, even though you may only place this 3 or 4 inches below the ground, ive seen some really screwey stuff done--call before you dig.

 

[Britboy]

Hey Toshiba, thats a great story! Going across a road is really taking it to the next level.

A year or so ago me and a couple of neighbors networked our houses together using regular CAT5 cable, buried it under the lawn, it worked fine for 6-8 months, then he decided to abandon the network (he set it up). I'm sure that was not the recommended way of doing things though. Maybe Plenum grade CAT5 would be a better choice, it's designed to be run in walls and ceilings (fire resistance - building codes) so it may stand up to hot/cold weather better, just a guess. Good luck with your project

 

[ArMs]

We planned on encasing it in some type of garden hose (without metal innards) or conduit. We also took a different route and got the distance down to about 280 ft. We don't really have a whole lot of money and already have networks setup at my house, so getting fiber NICs isn't really the best option. My mom works for Santee Cooper (local power company) so conduit shouldn't be hard to get. As for hot/cold, I live in South Carolina, so it never really gets cold (it was 70-something degrees today) and while it gets hot in the summer (I remember it hitting 107 degrees once), the ground is still pretty cool a few inches beneath the surface. We'll be using an edger to to cut the "trench." We can't get Santee Cooper's directional drill (used for putting in underground services) for personal uses, so that sucks, but it's not really a problem.

 

[ScottMac]

Last time, I promise:

If you don't know what you're doing (and it doesn't sound like you do), copper is a VERY bad thing to run over that distance between two different locations. At the very least, there's a good chance you'll smoke all the equipment on both LANs. Worse case, somebody dies.

Your mom works for a power company? Have her ask one of the engineers about variance of ground potential, and what the chances are of the two locations being on two different local power distribution lines. For that matter, perhaps she can check the local code about copper entrance requirements.

Don't fight Darwin; he wins EVERY time......

FWIW

Scott

 

[ArMs]

I have a pretty damn good idea as to what I'm doing, and I think insulating the wire will take care of most of the problems. As for frying everything on both LANs, I can't say I've ever heard of that happening.

 

[ScottMac]

I rest my case.


Happy Holidays.


Scott

 

[spidey07]

Please listen to ScottMac.

By running copper cable underground without proper lightning protection and grounding you not only break every electrical code in the book, but you also endanger your life. When you say you've never heard of frying equipment (all gear, hubs, switches, PCs, anything connected to PC) on both ends that immediately says you don't know what you're doing. Sorry to be so blunt but you can and will be hurt.

BTW insulating a copper wire inside a garden hose is a great idea. That garden hose will stand up great to a lightning strike.

 

[DaviDaVinci]

I just bought a wireless setup. $220 and no hassles of buying wire, crimping it, putting outlets in walls (for cosmetics), running wire, grounding problems. Mind you my house is networked with Cat5 with a Netger Router. But the luxury of not haveing to rerun wires when moving computers is awesome. Plus i can have my laptop anywhere. I bought wireless with the future in mind. I can save on my cable internet service by sharing the cost with my neighbor(s). Having women in the house, they always like to move stuff around. Wireless is the future!!

 

[ericboo]

My questions are now answered.

I am scrounging some wireless equipment from work (aka Dad) and trying it at home. As my distance between houses is no more than 50ft, and not much else inbetween, I hope it works well sans my 2.4ghz phone.

I just heard there are new Linksys WPC11's version 2.5 that are supposed to work 10-15% better. Time to return the old one to Staples.

 

[Nighthawk69]

ericboo: I would recommend checking out PracticallyNetworked.com and reading their reviews on wireless 802.11b routers, I think you will find that the SMC wireless router has much better user responses than the Linksys does. I am about to setup 4 computer in my home on 802.11b and I've done a lot of research, so I have determined that I will get the SMC Wireless 802.11b router and the Orinoco USB wireless adapters (due to them simply being Orinoco and having better range and easier placement than the PCI cards).

Anyway, I just suggest you take a look at the reviews on that site and see what people are saying about the products... I think you may decide against replacing your current wireless router with a Linksys one. Just my thoughts though

Best regards and happy holidays!

 

[Ju1cyJ]

here is my situation, the computer i am networked to is around 25ft away and the cable goes outside but is hanging around 15ft above the ground wrapped in duct tape (lol). the network hasnt really been used but is about to be, am i in any danger?

 

[Valhalla1]

my friend wired his grandmother's pc into his home network, her house is right next door, they just strung a 200 foot cat5 between the 2 houses roof's, next to the coax cable going into her house for cable tv. the cat5 is totally unshielded, its been there for a year and half now.

works like a champ, rain, snow, and 3+ months straight of >100 degree texas summer heat

 

[Hoober]

Like Scott and Spidey said... network gear fries all the time. Why make it worse by adding an inherently dangerous situation. If the houses are close enough that Cat5 is an option, lookin into wireless. You'll save yourself a whole lot of hassle... and money.

 

[ArMs]

I don't really have the money to go wireless, and there's a lot of stuff in the way, so that's not really the best of options for me. As far as grounding everything and insulating and such, my mom is an electrical engineer, and my setp-dad is a line-foreman, so I'll dig the "trench" with our edger, and get their help with making it safe.

 

[bot2600]

Yeah and my mom and dad designed the space shuttle.....

 

[spidey07]

I give up. When faced by the overwhelmin evidence of "I plug it in and haven't had any problems" i will forget all my training and education and experience and simply run a very large lighting rod between two structures. Same thing.

 

[Ju1cyJ]

such a positive guy

again i ask, am I in any danger? read my post a few replies above.

 

[L3Guy]

To ScottMac you listen! (In my best Yoda voice)

ScottMac is the office cabling guru. Professionals with 10+ years professional experience in networking listen to ScottMac about cabling issues.

However, If you decide not to listen to us, do some research. First, how to protect against lightning strikes in buried cable, and on ground current between 14kva distribution transformers in a power system. You may need help interpreting the answers, but it will be educational.

The university went to fiber between buildings after it destroyed a dozen or more terminals in a year. Not cheap, but neither was replacing the equipment.

Good Luck (you may need it.)

Doug

 

[spidey07]

Juicy,

Are you in any danger? Well....if you happen to be touching your gear in a thunderstorm you may get zapped.

I really do give up. For the first time on anandtech I'll post my qualifications, hopefully the EE will have some meaning.

BS-EE Purdue University '93
BS-CS Purdue University '93
CCNP/CCDP
MSCE+I (I know...I know, the tests were free)

 

[spidey07]

Cabling guru ScottMac is. (bad yoda voice)

 

[ScottMac]

JucyJ: Maybe not...do you get lightening in your area?

Lightening would be bad.

The vast majority of the time, using cabling that not rated for the environment is a bad idea. There's reasons that there are so many varieties and kind of cables.

Plenum cable is no different than regulat UTP, it just take a higher tempreture to outgas and burn, it still rots, it still allows infiltration...the whole nine yards.

FWIW

Scott