Help!! New Server Build Advice

[rockdudemmml11]

I am building a server for our office that will have to have the following functionality.

1. Run Microsoft Windows Server 2012 R2

2. Run Microsoft Exchange Server 2013 (10 Users)

3. Run Remote Desktop for (10) Virtual desktops. Using Windows 7 Platform
connecting via Sonic Wall VPN

4. Run (10) Microsoft Office Standard (Word, Outlook, Excel, Powerpoint, Onenote) on the virtual
desktops.

5. NO CLOUD STORAGE (No Office 365 etc,)

All software on the server, must be self contained, on hot swappable drives

Any advice as to motherboard, memory, HDD, controller, licensing, etc would be greatly appreciated

This is my first time attempting a project like this, and could really use some constuctive
advise

 

[nsafreak]

As has been stated multiple times on this site, you never, ever want to be the primary person responsible for a business critical piece of hardware. If for no other reason that when a piece of hardware fails, and it will at the worst possible time almost guaranteed, that you have next/same day support from a company backing the server via warranty. Instead of having to scramble yourself to find and get that replacement part as quickly as possible. I would highly recommend looking at the servers available from the likes of HP, Dell & Lenovo.

 

[rockdudemmml11]

Do we have advice on HP or Dell Server build that would meet my needs?
(i.e. Can you help me spec one out?)

 

[nsafreak]

I should be able to, but I'll need a budget first otherwise there's a good chance I'll shoot well over it. I'll let you know now though that you're going to need a healthy amount of RAM on that server, especially if they have those applications all open at once on those virtual desktops.

 

[XavierMace]

I also wouldn't want VDI running on the same box as AD/Exchange personally.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

I also wouldn't want VDI running on the same box as AD/Exchange personally.

Could run them all in separate VMs, but now you're talking a cluster.

 

[XavierMace]

That would obviously be preferable, but personally I'd still take multiple VM's running on a single host over everything running on a single Windows install.

But obviously the price is going to skyrocket doing that.

 

[dave_the_nerd]

That would obviously be preferable, but personally I'd still take multiple VM's running on a single host over everything running on a single Windows install.

But obviously the price is going to skyrocket doing that.

Agreed and true.

 

[rockdudemmml11]

My budget is approx $6,000.00

 

[XavierMace]

Yeah, about that budget....

Server 2012 Standard - $870
10 Server 2012 RDS User CAL - $1700
Exchange 2013 Standard - $670
10 Exchange 2013 CAL - $760
10 Office 2013 H&B - $2,200

That puts you at $6,200 right there, unless I've forgotten how to license MS software (entirely possible). You might be able to get better pricing through a VAR or what not but $6,000 simply isn't enough for a do-all server. Just tossed a quick build together on Dell's website and here's what I come up with:

PowerEdge T430 - Lower Level 2 socket server.
2x Xeon E5-2620 V3 - I can't bring myself do the lower clock speed since VDI is involved and that would only save $600.
4x8Gb RAM - Generally we run our clients AD servers at 4Gb, Exchange at 8Gb. That leaves 20Gb for 10 users VDI.
4x 300Gb 10k SAS - Basic RAID 10 setup
iDRAC 8 Enterprise - You'll hate life if you don't go enterprise. No virtual console.
DVD+RW - Not strictly needed.
Redundant 750W power supplies - Not sure the 450's would cut it.
3yr 24x7 4hr Support - Given you are running EVERYTHING on this box, don't skimp on this. I'd probably recommend extending it out to 5yr.
Windows Server 2012 + 10 RDS User CAL's.

$7,507.46.

That does not include Exchange or Office licensing. Nor a UPS which I wouldn't go without either. I'd still be nervous about running everything on a single Windows install. Adding VMWare so you could compartmentalize the roles a bit would add $2,100 plus $870 per additional Server 2012 license.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

Yeah, about that budget....

Server 2012 Standard - $870
10 Server 2012 RDS User CAL - $1700
Exchange 2013 Standard - $670
10 Exchange 2013 CAL - $760
10 Office 2013 H&B - $2,200

That puts you at $6,200 right there, unless I've forgotten how to license MS software (entirely possible). You might be able to get better pricing through a VAR or what not but $6,000 simply isn't enough for a do-all server. Just tossed a quick build together on Dell's website and here's what I come up with:

PowerEdge T430 - Lower Level 2 socket server.
2x Xeon E5-2620 V3 - I can't bring myself do the lower clock speed since VDI is involved and that would only save $600.
4x8Gb RAM - Generally we run our clients AD servers at 4Gb, Exchange at 8Gb. That leaves 20Gb for 10 users VDI.
4x 300Gb 10k SAS - Basic RAID 10 setup
iDRAC 8 Enterprise - You'll hate life if you don't go enterprise. No virtual console.
DVD+RW - Not strictly needed.
Redundant 750W power supplies - Not sure the 450's would cut it.
3yr 24x7 4hr Support - Given you are running EVERYTHING on this box, don't skimp on this. I'd probably recommend extending it out to 5yr.
Windows Server 2012 + 10 RDS User CAL's.

$7,507.46.

That does not include Exchange or Office licensing. Nor a UPS which I wouldn't go without either. I'd still be nervous about running everything on a single Windows install. Adding VMWare so you could compartmentalize the roles a bit would add $2,100 plus $870 per additional Server 2012 license.

He could go with 2012 Datacenter and have unlimited Windows 2012 licenses for use with Hyper V VMs. Depending on how many VMs he would need, that might make the most sense financially. But at any rate, $6,000 is nowhere near enough unless he already owns the software and the $6,000 is just the hardware budget.

 

[bwbob]

and put those drives on a real RAID card, for budget reasons look out for something like an LSI 9260 or Dell PERC that has good driver support

 

[HitAnyKey]

I would strongly recommend you virtualize your environment. By this I mean you get 2x Servers and you run VMware vSphere 6 on them.

With your budget Software is going to be the biggest hit so consider buying used Servers with a warranty (HP or Dell). Key thing here is each server will need RAID 5 (3 drives or more).

For the virtual desktops, you will need really fast storage like SSD. See if you can squeeze in one or two of those in your config. Throw in a a cheap NAS for storing user data.

What your trying to build with a single server and 6K is nearly impossible without some compromises. But I think without virtualization you are going to struggle to manage all your requirements.

Been doing this stuff for almost 15yrs as Server admin for 5000+ users in a heavily virtualized enviroment. Take a look around on Youtube about running VMs with VMware or Hyper-V. There are some good resources that can help you architect this properly. The planning is the hardest part. Deploying the VMs is not too hard if your good with OSes. Lots of resources online that you can google too.

Good luck and PM if you have any questions.

 

[XavierMace]

He could go with 2012 Datacenter and have unlimited Windows 2012 licenses for use with Hyper V VMs.

I didn't believe that covers RDS licenses though, does it?

 

[rockdudemmml11]

I am sorry for the misunderstanding.

The $6,000.00 was for "HARDWARE ONLY"

The licenses are what they are.

 

[IndyColtsFan]

I didn't believe that covers RDS licenses though, does it?

I don't believe so.

 

[rockdudemmml11]

I really appreciated your response. My budget was about $6000.00 for hardware only.

My previous server experience was with Novell. 3.12

This "Virtualaztion" and Hyper-V etc.. is all new to me.

Any further insights in my project are greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Rockdudemmml11

p.s. "HitAnyKey" I tried to PM you but it said you were not accepting any PM

 

[heymrdj]

With 2012 R2 Standard you get one physical license and two virtual ones. So you can install the OS on the server (physical) and then create two VM's (one for Exchange, one for AD). If you want Remote Desktop Services, you'll need another server 2012 license to cover that as well. 2 2012 R2 Standard licenses would be cheaper for this than a 2012 R2 Datacenter licence (which is 6,000$ by itself).

You can install Hyper-V on a certified flash drive, and then just ahve a set of disks for the VM's themselves to run on (I'd do 4 900GB drives in RAID 10 for this).

But honestly your business is not really a place to learn on this stuff. Losing an entire Exchange server with no backups tends to tick off a lot of people. For cheaper, have you considered running Server 2012 Essentials with Office 365? Office 365 will give you office and exchange cheap, and you'll free up another 2012r2 standard license as well if you decide to go that route so you can have an RDS server.

Have you passed the MCSA 2012 certification? If you can pass that, then you would be ready to run your own setup.

 

[rockdudemmml11]

Thank you for your input on my new server build.

I understand that the 2012 R2 server has one physical license and two virtual ones.

My question is this, since I can install two separate VM 2012 R2 and then put AD on one and Exchange on the other.

Why cant I just put Remote Desktop on one the the two VM 2012 r2 servers I have already created?
(either the Exchange or the AD)

What are the downsides of doing it that way?

Remember we only have 10 users and probably only 5 will be on at any given time.

 

[heymrdj]

Thank you for your input on my new server build.

I understand that the 2012 R2 server has one physical license and two virtual ones.

My question is this, since I can install two separate VM 2012 R2 and then put AD on one and Exchange on the other.

Why cant I just put Remote Desktop on one the the two VM 2012 r2 servers I have already created?
(either the Exchange or the AD)

What are the downsides of doing it that way?

Remember we only have 10 users and probably only 5 will be on at any given time.

You definitely don't want to put it on a DC. The DC handles accounts in special ways, and by default user accounts cannot login to them (you would have to override that policy, which then opens up other cans of worms). You could use Exchange, but I'm not sure how well Exchange's databases will play with the connection broker role's database. Either way, by default, Exchange consumes all physical ram that it can, and lets it go as other processes ask for it. So already you will be at a performance negative due to swap.

 

[SolMiester]

With 2012 R2 Standard you get one physical license and two virtual ones. So you can install the OS on the server (physical) and then create two VM's (one for Exchange, one for AD). If you want Remote Desktop Services, you'll need another server 2012 license to cover that as well. 2 2012 R2 Standard licenses would be cheaper for this than a 2012 R2 Datacenter licence (which is 6,000$ by itself).

You can install Hyper-V on a certified flash drive, and then just ahve a set of disks for the VM's themselves to run on (I'd do 4 900GB drives in RAID 10 for this).

But honestly your business is not really a place to learn on this stuff. Losing an entire Exchange server with no backups tends to tick off a lot of people. For cheaper, have you considered running Server 2012 Essentials with Office 365? Office 365 will give you office and exchange cheap, and you'll free up another 2012r2 standard license as well if you decide to go that route so you can have an RDS server.

Have you passed the MCSA 2012 certification? If you can pass that, then you would be ready to run your own setup.

This was my thought with essentials syncing AD accounts to Office 365!

 

[jsbush]

You might want to reach out to a 3rd party consultant for the scope of the work you want to do. The VDI infrastructure alone has special requirements you should pay close attention to.

For what you want to run, you have to go virtual host. Separate the services into VMs
- Exchange
- AD (DNS, DHCP)
- Desktop 1
- Desktop 2
- etc..

Since you are just going one server, highly recommended you add a psychical DC. RAID level, go with a RAID50 minimum. RAID5 is widely used, but I personally don't recommend in a production environment, based on experience. RAID50 = best bang for buck (performance vs reliability vs price).

In terms of hardware, whatever the scope is that fits the budget. But for 10 users and a few desktops, something like a DL360p with 1 socket, 10core CPU will be plenty. For the RAM you need to size this as well as hard drive space.

HDD's go with SAS for the Exchagne and AD, SATA should be fine for the desktops. The actually virtual host if going VMWare ESXi, go with SD Media card, 32GB.


Don't forget:
- Backups (two tiers at a minimum with one being off site)
- UPS
- Networking requirements (managed switch with vLAN support for backup iSCSI, virtual desktops, DMZ if needed)
- Firewall if VD's are accessed from the outside
- SSL certificate for Exchange
- SSL certificate for VDI
- VCenter Server for VSphere (if going VMWare)