Help overclocking 2.26B Northwood

[gf4200isdabest]

My systems vital specs:

Epox 4g4a+
Intel p4 Northwood 2.26GHZ w/533MHZ FSB
Corsair XMS DDR pc3200
WD Special Edition w/8mb cache
MSI 128MB GF4 4400
Enermax 431W PSU
Windows XP Pro
CPU Temps 98-114 degrees Fahrenheit
Overall System Temps: 80-90 degrees Fahrenheit

I can't seem to get this thing to overclock stably. It goes to a 144fsb with ease (no voltage changes). The multiplier is locked at 17. That makes the total OC'ed speed 2448. After this point, it crashes and messes up all the time. No matter whether i raise CPU and VDIMM voltages I can't get it to run through 3dmark once. Windows can boot up to about 2.72GHZ but I consider "stable overclocking" to include being able to run through at least one 3dmark 2001SE test run...I've tried changing the memory from 4:3 to 1:1 to 4:5...I've tried locking AGP and PCI at 66/33. I've run voltages from 1.5 to 1.75. VDIMS from 2.5 to 2.7. Always the same thing. 3dmark crashes. I tried 3dmark 2000 for the hell of it and got the same result: crash!

I don't want to RMA anything but I do want a machine that can get a 3dmark score of 12,000. I'm at 11,316 now (got my MSI 4400 up to 311/711 on stock cooling). If I could at least get this thing to a 149fsb (2.53GHZ) I bet I could get the 12,000 I'm hoping for...Any ideas?

 

[Barrei]

Unfortuanately it sounds like youv'e hit the wall with the cpu .

 

[Mikki]

Sounds like Barrei is right. I was wondering if you could do me a favor (which may actually help you) if you get a chance. When I was oc-ing my old 1.6a, and I got to the point where it was Prime95 stable but if I went one more mhz on the fsb it would error out, I set my ratio to 1:1, set my timings as high as they'd go (2.5/3/3/7 for XMS3200), and I squeezed another 2mhz out of the fsb (I can't remember if I upped the mem voltage or not). I thought if it worked for you, I could verify that (as an experiment). Anyhoo, good luck...

 

[JingHola]

Hi, I just overclocked my Pentium 4 2.26Ghz, 533Mhz CPU on my Epox 4G4A+ MB to 2.55Ghz.
I am having no problems so far. It booted up just fine and Windows XP Pro booted up just fine and
I ran some Sisoft Sandra benchmark tests. All without a hitch. I posted results of before and after
on the Motherboards forum thread.

Anyway this is my first overclock attempt with this setup. All I did in CMOS BIOS
was set the FSP=150 and then I changed the memory bus setting from "Auto=DDR310"
to 4:5 ratio I think it then said DDR375 memory speed.

My system is rock stable and my CPU temp and case temp believe it or not is exactly the same
as the non-overclocked temperatures were! That's cool!~ Literally too!

Oh, FYI, I am using a single Mushkin PC2700 CL2.5 rated memory module I just bought and received
from Newegg.com. When I used SisSandra to check the system specs, it reported this memory module
as a Samsung memory! So I think that is cool too, since I am hearing all good things about Samsung memory.
Samsung was my first choice memory, but they were out of stock last week when I ordered, so they only had
the Mushkin PC2700 512MB chips which I ordered... turns out that they are Samsung chips after all!

Anyway, I ssense that my CPU and MB and DDR RAM combination can go higher than this 2.55Ghz first
attempt of mine... I will gradually and eventually up it until I find the sweet, safe and stable spot.

So far the Epox 4G4A+ board has been working out great and stable for me. Except I think the audio speaker
output drive is alittle weak on this board of mine... but that is what I posted a thread about on the
Motherboards forum. So you can read that there.

Over and out... for now.

I added a correction to the memory speed spec above, it is correct now as I went in and looked at
my BIOS, FSB=150Mhz and at 4:5=DDR375 in the BIOS. Runs stable.

I did just try some other settings and got unstable boots. When I tried FSB=160 just now, with auto DDR
system failed to POST. Had to reset and clear CMOS. Same at FSB=155, failed to POST for me.
Then I tried FSB=152 with 4:5 DDR setting and it POSTed but WinXP failed with BSOD paging error detected.

So I put it back to FSB=150 and 4:5 ratio DDR=375 for now and it is stable up to here for me. Oh well.
Good Luck!

 

[JingHola]

Hold Everything! My WinXP Pro just crashed at the FSB=150, 4:5 DDR=375 setting. :-(
Default voltages used and AGP/PCI set to auto.
Windows BSOD and system dumped the memory and said to "...restart if this is the first time
seeing this error message...".

So, now I lowered the setting to FSB=149 leaving the BIOS to auto set the DDR speed.
I am booted up running this setup again and will see if it will crash in a few hours of use or not.

Oh well. I am new at this overclocking stuff and I am learning the in's and out's of it all.
I have not messed with upping the vCore voltages or any voltages at all yet.

Also, I now locked my AGP/PCI bus to 66/33. I did not have it locked before running at FSB=150.
Hmmm, I wonder if I should go back up to FSB=150 and give it another chance with the AGP/PCI
bus locked? This takes tioo much time to trial and error it all... I feel lazy right now and will
eventually try it in time.

Maybe I should have bought the Pentium4 1.6A instead of the Pentium 4 2.26Ghz huh?
But then the 1.6A is a 400Mhz bandwidth whereas the 2.26Ghz CPU I have is the 533Mhz bandwidth.
That has to make a difference to equalize the speed differences then no?

 

[JingHola]

Okay forget it, I give up... I tried running the sisandra burn in tests for CPU arith, Multi-media, cache mem
for 10 cyvles and got a WinXP crash near the very end of the run using FSB=149, auto DDR setting, no voltage increases.
Temps did rise to around 49C.

I set it to FSB=145 auto DDR setting and it ran through the 10 cycles of sisoft Buirn in and still running stable, no crash.
Oh well, I am not sure what will ultimately be the settings to squeeze the most speed out of this setup I have.

My new video card comes tomorrow, a eVGA GeForce4 TI4200, 128Mb based card, so I hope that improves my
speeds a whole lot so that I don't have to OC this system that much.
I am not an experienced Overclocker as I said before, so I am just learning the behaviours I will encounter
trying the various settings.

Good Luck.

 

[Duvie]

JingHola,

IN your case you just need to boost vcore slightly to keep going!!!! 2.4ghz is about where most of the 1.6 and 1.8a's with newer pack dates have been reaching around here at default vcore....

Mine made it to 150fsb or 1.6@2.4ghz with default vcore on my epox 4bda mobo....





gf4200isdabest,

what bios???may try an older one....


Also yours doesn't seem so cut and dry...It went from fine at default vcore to not running even boosting it to 1.75v??? That is a wall that doesn't sound right....

but I consider "stable overclocking" to include being able to run through at least one 3dmark 2001SE test run...

Not a good method alone...I hope you are coupling that with prime95!!! If I follwed that method I would have given up back to default yesterday...My catalyst install for my ati card was not thorough as it left many older drivers that caused problems....I couldn't run at 2.4ghz with any vcore or any ram setting....

Did a thorough uninstall of all ati drivers and software...reinstalled catalyst and I can complete 3dmark at speeds 2fsb higher then prime95 will let me pass at!!! I can complete 2.768ghz....I am not prime stable there for 10 minutes at current vcore...

 

[JingHola]

Okay, I got around to try raising my Vcore voltage to about 1.7v in BIOS and Vmem boosted by +0.1v
and am running at FSB=156, Auto DDR setting (DDR=312). Have had it running Sandra Burn-In for 15 cycles
while I am surfing this forum and also playing my AverMedia TVStudio TV tuner card at the same time.
So far it has not crashed and Sandra is up to cycle test nuumber 13 of 15...!!!

I am using a different 512MB DDR333 (PC2700) memoery module this time around also, which I just
received today from a etailer named OC System.com/Encore Innovation, Inc. It is a Samsung CL2.5
DDR PC2700 memory module and it looks the same as my previous Mushkin DDR PC2700 CL2.5 memory
module (which is also a Samsung under the Mushkin branded heatsink covers).

I also have received my eVGA brand GeForce4 TI4200, 128MB video card and installed it with all the
nVidia drivers as well as the VIVO feature drivers that come with the card.

My 3DMark2001SE benchmark for video went from the onboard stock video of 1829 to 9885 using the
new external AGP GeForce4 TI4200 card. I did not OC the video card, it is at stock settings for now.
I don't see any software that allows me to adjust this card to OC it. But I have not loaded all the software
from all 3 CD disks that came with it yet. They might have a software utility included somewhere in there,
I just don't know. If someone knows about this card and how to set the clocking on it, please chime in
and let me know. Thanks.

Well I am so far happy (at this time anyway) to report that my Epox 4G4A+ with Pentium 2.26Ghz, 533Mhz CPU
is running at FSB=156, Auto DDR=312, Vcore=1.7v approximately, Vdimm set to +0.1v and Sissandra has just
finished 15 cycles of burn-in running time of
CPU Arithmetic,
CPU Mulkti-Media,
Memory Bandwidth and
Cache&Memory

Benchmark tests.

No hiccups!

CPU processor speed is 2.651.9MHZ

One question I ask to the experienced OC'ers out there... my CPU temperature under that full load
burn-in was hitting and sitting at degrees 57C to 58C. Is this a safe temp to run long term for these
Pentiums? Or should I look for more heat sinking and fans to cool it down more...?

Reminder, I am using a cheapo generic 400W (supposedly) power supply that came with a cheapo
full tower case that I paid a total of $35 for on an eBay win from www.bilsystems.com. I think it was
a pretty great deal considering the price I paid. My +3.3V rail reads low though. It always reads
about +2.5 to +2.59v for the +3.3V rail. I don't know if it is the power supply or the 4G4A+ voltage regulators
that are off by that much. However, all seems to be working with the system!



The trick that seems to be doing this for me is upping the Vcore and the Vdimm voltages. Then again it
could have something to do with that new Samsung DDR333 RAM I just installed today. I have the other
ushkin DDR333 RAM sitting outside the case for now.

I am going to try to install both memory modules soon (after making sure this configuration of mine holds stable)
and see if I have the problems that some folks have been reporting about using more than one DDR slot populated.

Later y'all. Please try to answer some of my questions.... especilally about what the safe temperature limit
is for running these P4's long term.

Thanks!

 

[Duvie]

The 2.5-2.59v on 3.3v??? That is common...my epox does the same thing it is reading the vdimm voltage I set on the board....It is saying you have mem set to 2.6v, right???

Also temps are fine...could be better but these things should work up to the high 60's before thermal throttling would take place...

 

[JingHola]

Well, guess what? My system had a crash again after running well for awhile... I gave up now.
Also I tried to install two memory sticks of 512MB Samsung type DDR333 in mem slots 1 and 2.
It booted up and recognized 1GB of RAM installed ran for a little while and then when I started
doing normal things like opening IE6 or running 3DMark2001 the computer would just simply freeze
and lockup. Have to hit the reset button to reboot. It boots up fine and then does the whole
freeze up thing again.

So I just went back to using one stick of 512MB Samsung DDR333 RAM and it is not freezing up anymore.
So now I am another one that can confirm that this board does not work with more than one memory
module installed in it.

I was running everything at stock default settings too. No Overclocking and no voltage increases.

I may give it another try with two DIMMs installed whilst upping the Vdimm memory voltage. Maybe with
more than one stick installed, the Vmem bus is loaded down and needs alittle more voltage boost?
I will try it and see. It is a shame that this 845G chipset architecture was designed flawed this way! :-(
Why the heck did motherboard manufacturers even provide two or 3 or even 4 DIMM slots then? What hype!

Anyway, more at a later time when I get a chance to test this out.

I am back to running my stuff at FSB=134, auto DDR, no voltage increases... basically very default.
My board actually came out of the box running at FSB=134 as the default setting and not FSB=133. Weird.

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well you will gain far more from o/c'ing your 4200 than you will get from o/c'ing the CPU & mobo.

Whenever o/c'ing it is best to start at a level that should be very safe and then increase in small steps until wierd things begin to happen (display glitches, BSODS, lockups, resets etc), then I'd advise backing off a couple of steps (never a good idea to run too close to the limit) or rasie voltages to enable the slightly higher clocks (again backing off a couple of steps when the limit is found). However I always advise against voltage increases, very often the true perf gain is minimal and it not only kicks off loads more heat but ages your components far more than o/c'ing without voltage tweaking.

As for your GF4TI4200, you need to download and install COOLBITS or some GF o/c'ing/tweaking sw. Coolbits is easiest and simply enables an otherwise hidden tab in the 'Display Properties', 'Settings' (where you change Windows res and colour depth), 'Advanced', '{Card Name}', 'Additional Properties', 'Clock Frequencies'. How far a 4200 card will go is almost totally dependent upon the ns rating of the RAM. You can read this from the RAM chips themselves, 2nd line down last 2 numbers. 4.0ns is most common and should reach 550mhz with 500mhz being a very safe level, 3.6ns should reach 620mhz with 550mhz being a very safe level. Regarding ALL GF4TI cores, you should reach between 280-320mhz, 275mhz is a very safe level. So in short expect either 300/550 or 300/620 from your 4200 and bear in mind that 4400=275/550 and 4600=300/650 ... you should be very happy!

 

[JingHola]

Hey thanks for the summary of pointers on the GF4 TI4200 overclocking AnAndAustin!
I have downloaded coolbits and the latest nVidia Detonator driver and have tested them out.
Unfortunately I am having mucho instability problems with running two 512MB memory sticks installed
in my system (1GB total DDR RAM). Seems like every time I start 3DMark2001 benchmarking test
the system just freezes up and becomes unresponsive. I have to hit reset to reboot.
Flaky as hell running two sticks of memory. Then I read in the another anandtech forum thread
where some folks were having same difficuties with mem populated in slots 2 and 3 that the new
Epox BIOS dated 06/17/2002 supposedly addresses that issue. I have applied that new BIOS now and
it did seem to work better with two memory sticks installed. However after I applied coolbits and then
I installed the new latest nVidia Detonator video driver over the older eVGA provided drivers, I was able
to run 3DMark2001 for a little... but the PC would still lock up after awhile and never complete the tests.
I also noticed that after applying the new nVidia drivers, that my ZoneAlarm Pro firewall started acting
weird. With every new restart or reboot, the Zone Alarm Pro would loose its configuration settings as
if I were running it for the first time and start asking me if I want to allow access to all the various programs
again. I would say yes to all the programs to reconfigure ZoneAlarm and it would go about its merry way...
until I reboot again and then it would loose all of the allowed settings again! I don't know what registry'
settings the new nVidia drivers install messed with, but it corrupted my ZoneAlarm Pro settings.
Luckily I did a system backup/restore checkpoint before I applied coolbits and the new drivers. I know that
this is kind of long winded, but after I restored back to the point just before I applied coolbits and the
new video drivers, (which brought me back to the old original GForce4 TI4200 eVGA provided drivers,
I was able to finally run the full 3DMar2001 benchmark test with my two 512MB memory sticks installed
under the latest version of the Epox BIOS.

So summary and main point here for others to know is that the latest Epox 4G4A+ BIOS dated June 17, 2002
seems be much more stable for running two sticks of memory in DIMM slots 1 and 2.

Next step I need to do now is to try one more time to reinstall the latest nVidia Detonator drivers and
to apply the coolbits thing as the last step, hoping that it will not corrupt my registry and Zone Alarm
behaviour this time around.

Anyhow, thanks for the GeForce4 TI4200 OC tips... I did overclock my card to 300/550 and ran it
for awhile in 3DMark2001 before my PC froze up on test 11 of 15. I suspect that maybe it is memory
heat related for as soon as you tax the memory with video activity, it soon freezes.
BTW, I am running at all defaults now with the new BIOS applied and all is working with the 1GB of RAM.

It is 03:21am in the wee hours of the morning here and I must get to sleep! So Goodnight. I was all day working
on this stuff! Dang!

 

[AnAndAustin]

Well large sticks of RAM like 512MB+ are very sensitive to FSB increases esp running 2 sticks and even more so if you are running low RAM timings. You will find you'll gain much more speed from a stock CPU+FSB and finding the 4200 limit, 275/530 or so is VERY safe for any 4200 with 300/550 and 300/620 usually very attainable depending upon the type of RAM it uses.

I have never had a prob running ZoneAlarm Pro and all manner of 4200 gfx card drivers, and coolbits certainly shouldn't make a diff. Most likely a prob from a lockup while ZonAlarm was doing something, maybe the ZoneAlarm config file was corrupted, be sure to run scandisk. Just be sure to avoid beta drivers, use the latest drivers from either nVidia or eVGA and see how they go, but coolbits should work fine even with your current eVGA drivers anyway.

Regarding 3Dmark2001 it seems to be very quirky and often crashes where games do not. I would advise to reinstall 3Dmark2001 & DX8.1. Then if that doesn't help try deinstalling ALL gfx card drivers, run Detonator Destroyer and then reinstall the latest official eVGA or nVidia drivers. Finally reinstall DX8.1 again.

Just rem that the top P4B 533FSB CPUs are often not very capable of o/c'ing, 145x4=580FSB may be the best you can hope for and will boost a 2.2ghz to 2.4ghz, probably best to just stay at defaults as they really kick ass at default speeds and are very stable anyway.

 

[JingHola]

AnAndAustin, I gave up with trying to run with two 512MB mem sticks and took one stick back out.
I still experienced lockups with running two mem sticks in this Epox 4G4A+ board this morning.

Anyway, with one 512MB stick in DIMM slot 1, it is running stable with no freeze ups whatsoever.
So I removed all the previous eVGA nvidia drivers and VIVO WDM drivers applied the new latest
nVidia Detonator drivers, then applied Coolbits. Everything loaded fine this time and Zone Alarm Pro
is running fine!

Okay I tried various overclocks and am running my eVGA GF4 TI4200, 128MB VIVO card at 300/550.
It ran all the 3DMark2001SE benchies just fine without freezing up. I had my motherboard BIOS set
at all defaults, no OC on the CPU or DDR. I got a 3DMark of 10665.

I then overclocke my CPU FSB=140 with Auto DDR. Then with video card OC at 300/550 I got
a benchmark of 10999. just 1 shy of 11000. I don't know how good this mark is for this class of
P4 2.26Ghz, 533Mhz setup? I see higher marks posted at the 3DMark database reference site.

Anyway, I guess I am happy with this setup now. I am running Sisoft Sandra burnin testing on memory
for 15 loops as I type this. It is just about completed and no freeze ups running my CPU at FSB=140
with Auto DDR settings. I am leaving my GeForce4 TI4200 overclocked to 300/550 now because it
seems stable. No glitches in video or pixelization or artifacts that my eyes can see when the
3DMark2001SE tests are run.
FYI, I did try to max out the OC settings that coolbit gives I think it was something like 316/590 and
the 3DMark2001SE tests froze up in the beginning of test 1. So I backed it off to 300/550.

That's it, I think it is all stable now... just wish I could figure out why the heck these boards won't
run with two DDR memory sticks populated! I think it is a bug in the BIOS timings... since the like I
mentioned in earlier posts, there was a noticable improvement in running time with the new 6/1/7/2002
BIOS as compared to my original 04/24/2002 BIOS which would hardly ever run at all.

 

[AnAndAustin]

The diff between 512MB and 1GB RAM for most things is very minimal, but it seems ashame to be unable to use the extra DIMM. Have you tried setting the RAM timings manualy, different BIOS's have different notations but essentially you are looking for words such as, 'CAS Latency' (CL), 'RAS to CAS', 'Refresh' etc and you may be able to get both DIMMs working together by using slower (or slowest) timings which are the higher numbers. The perf diff is likely to be minimal, certainly worth trying in any case. It could be the 2 DIMMs simply don't like working together, or as you say a small fault with the mobo, if the latter is the case I would consider sending it back (if you don't mind the delays and hassle), if the mobo can't do what it's supposed to (without factoring in o/c of course) then you should be entitled to a refund or replacement.

Your 3Dmarks are very nice, don't be too concerned with higher submitted results, very often people only submit their benchmarks if they are near the top and this and other factors give the submitted results, particularly the top results, unrealisticly bloated scores. Be happy, that's one heck of a PC you've got there!

 

[JingHola]

LAtest update, I had a slight hiccup with my video card OC at 300/550 yesterday... so I have now
backed it down to 290/525 core/mem speed and ran it all day with no problems.

Also I FYI for any that may perhaps this thread... I found the problem and a fix for the problem of
system instability when running two 512MB DDR333 memory modules in DIMM slot1 and slot2. I posted
the solution in the Motherboards forum under the thread named here:
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview.cfm?catid=29&threadid=790932&STARTPAGE=11

To summarize my solution and findings, In CMOS BIOS, I basically lowered the DDR333 memory speed automatically
detected by the BIOS as PC2700 (DDR333) memory so that it would be at or near PC2100 memory speeds. Example
with my setup is that at a OC FSB=140, I used the 1:1 ratio to get DDR=280 memory speed instead of letting BIOS
Auto DDR detect and set it to DDR350 speed. At DDR350 speeds the two memory modulels installed woudl cause
system lockups (I run WinXP). At "forced" lower DDR280 speeds (even though this is real DDR333 memory modules)
all of a sudden the system runs stable as a granite rock!

So, go fix your PC's now for all those folks who've had the "more than one memory module installed instability problem".

I suspect that this is not an Epox 4G4A+ MB specific problem but rather an Intel i845G chipset related problem that is
tied into the fact why Intel did not officially specify that this 845G chipset can support DDR333 memory modules... it is
not fast enough somewhere in its chip circuitry to handle the faster memory bank multiplexing (switching) needed for
more than one bank of DDR333 memory modules installed.

That's all I've figured out on this front... it should apply to ALL brands i845G chipset based motherboards... not just Epox!

< I edited out some typos>

'nuff said.