Help picking out Sound Card

[djplayer]

I have a Gigabyte P35-DS4 v2.0 for my motherboard. When I built the PC I ordered everything in one shot which also included a Creative Audigy SE 7.1. When browsing web pages (in particular scrolling pages) the sound would slow down to 1/2 speed, then go back to normal when I stopped. So I pulled the POS card and now that I'm using my onboard soundcard all is good...

but.. I'm a freak for performance. I don't want to take away from the power of my e8400 b/c I don't have a separate sound card..

I'm not a gamer. I do listen to quite a bit of music and do audio/video editing. Networking, extremely cpu/ram intensive work. Taking back the Audigy card will be a $35 credit.. do I buy a new sound card or just keep using onboard. How much of the CPU does it really utilize. And if I need a different sound card.. which one?

 

[nerp]

You will absolutley not see any difference in performance with onboard vs. a dedicated sound card in terms of freeing up CPU cycles while gaming for extra FPS or whatnot. Some sound cards still rely on the CPU for some functions anyway.

The only reason you want to get a sound card is for a better quality DAC for better sound and a better signal to noise ratio OR for more connetions. You also want a dedicated card with pro hookups if you plan on doing any recording.

I recommended the bgears b-enspirer or the m-audio revolution for 5.1 consumer oriented cards. For pro entry level stuff, audiophile 2496 from m-audio or the Echo Mia. The one good thing about that Echo card is that there are 64 bit Vista drivers for it.

* I think your board has the ALC8889 chip for sound. If that's true, your onboard is in an entirely different league than the Audigy -- i.e., WAY better.

 

[DarkRogue]

My GA-EP35-DS3P comes with the Realtek ALC889A onboard, and I wanted to use my SB Audigy MP3+ too. Currently both are hooked up just for fun but a friend of mine brought his Audiofire 2 over yesterday and ran a bunch of tests with it and RMAA (RightMark Audio Analyzer.) I would love to use a dedicated sound card because that's just me, and I also was trying to avoid having a hit on my CPU when playing music, which I do almost constantly.

He came over, I was playing some FLACs, I loaded the Task Manager... and he yelled "CPU usage is freakin' 0%! What are you complaining about?"

..Yeah. lol, anyway in regards to sound quality, the ALC889A is roughly the same as the Audigy, but it does edge out over it a bit. I have gathered all the graphs but I'm not sure if there would be enough interest to really post the results of the test as no one really has the original Audigy anymore.

Quick facts though, the onboard has a bit of low-end noise but the Audigy suffers from high intermod due to it resampling everything to 48KHz.

Really, for casual listening and gaming, the ALC889A and the Audigy are about the same. For an Audiophile though, and especially if you do recording, ditch both and get a quality sound card. I'm not a crazy audiophile so I can live with both, but I wouldn't mind a better sound card.

As far as "better" soundcards go, I was recommended the 2496 as well as the E-MU 1212M? I don't remember the exact model number off the top of my head. My friend said he had the m-audio Revolution for a while but it sucked.

Hope this helps.

 

[corkyg]

Unless you are using some really high end external amps and transducers, onboard audio today is really all you need.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: DarkRogue
My GA-EP35-DS3P comes with the Realtek ALC889A onboard, and I wanted to use my SB Audigy MP3+ too. Currently both are hooked up just for fun but a friend of mine brought his Audiofire 2 over yesterday and ran a bunch of tests with it and RMAA (RightMark Audio Analyzer.) I would love to use a dedicated sound card because that's just me, and I also was trying to avoid having a hit on my CPU when playing music, which I do almost constantly.

He came over, I was playing some FLACs, I loaded the Task Manager... and he yelled "CPU usage is freakin' 0%! What are you complaining about?"

..Yeah. lol, anyway in regards to sound quality, the ALC889A is roughly the same as the Audigy, but it does edge out over it a bit. I have gathered all the graphs but I'm not sure if there would be enough interest to really post the results of the test as no one really has the original Audigy anymore.

Quick facts though, the onboard has a bit of low-end noise but the Audigy suffers from high intermod due to it resampling everything to 48KHz.

Really, for casual listening and gaming, the ALC889A and the Audigy are about the same. For an Audiophile though, and especially if you do recording, ditch both and get a quality sound card. I'm not a crazy audiophile so I can live with both, but I wouldn't mind a better sound card.

As far as "better" soundcards go, I was recommended the 2496 as well as the E-MU 1212M? I don't remember the exact model number off the top of my head. My friend said he had the m-audio Revolution for a while but it sucked.

Hope this helps.

I wouldn't recommend the 1212m for a casual listener. It's one of the two cards I have in my computer. The only real annoyance for me is that it can't pass 5.1 formats out its digital out. However, for the average person, its learning curve is wayyyy to high.

 

[djplayer]

Great info people.. I guess I'll just keep my eyes out for a good deal.. Since I'm not a gamer I'm in no hurry whatsoever. At least I know it's almost pointless for a user such as myself to drop $100+ into a sound card.

 

[DarkRogue]

Originally posted by: PurdueRy
I wouldn't recommend the 1212m for a casual listener. It's one of the two cards I have in my computer. The only real annoyance for me is that it can't pass 5.1 formats out its digital out. However, for the average person, its learning curve is wayyyy to high.

Leave it to my friend to try to turn me into an audiophile, huh.. lol :laugh:

 

[Ghouler]

Originally posted by: nerp
You will absolutley not see any difference in performance with onboard vs. a dedicated sound card in terms of freeing up CPU cycles while gaming for extra FPS or whatnot. Some sound cards still rely on the CPU for some functions anyway.

Some do and some don't. You can get anything between 0 and 30% FPS increase + more accurate audio with a sound card. As for playing back music a lot depends on actual PC you have.E.g. these guys here have seen 3% load on CPU across all 4 cores with just m3 playback when using onboard audio:
http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/...n-cpu-use-investigated
Now, in that case a sound card makes sense.

Originally posted by: nerp
I think your board has the ALC8889 chip for sound. If that's true, your onboard is in an entirely different league than the Audigy -- i.e., WAY better.

There was Audigy 1 and Audigy 2 - use different chips, Audigy 2 aint bad. But considering X-Fi Gamer can be had for $60 I would definitely recommend it over onboard audio.

 

[IlllI]

ALC889A doesnt support eax does it?

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: clandren
ALC889A doesnt support eax does it?

nope

 

[octopus41092]

Think about it this way, using an onboard sound card is like using an onboard video card.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: octopus41092
Think about it this way, using an onboard sound card is like using an onboard video card.

Bad comparison. The two take vastly different amounts of processing power.

 

[ss284]

At this point, there are only three topics of concern. Price, Dac quality, and Extension support.

Price is up to you.

Dac quality is important if you dont use digital output and often listen to music.

Extension support is important if you still game in windows xp, or still play games that support EAX(newer games are ditching it).

 

[UpstartXT]

So if I am a big gamer and using Vista 64 and have a receiver that can take either digital or 5.1 analog input, should I still stick with onboard sound (assuming it's that DS3 board) or go with an X-Fi and all its driver issues and crackling noises?

 

[ss284]

Since you're using vista and you have a digital receiver, on board optical/coaxial out should be more than enough.

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: UpstartXT
So if I am a big gamer and using Vista 64 and have a receiver that can take either digital or 5.1 analog input, should I still stick with onboard sound (assuming it's that DS3 board) or go with an X-Fi and all its driver issues and crackling noises?

If you're a big gamer using Vista, X-Fi is your only real choice. Since you have a receiver that has both digital and multichannel analog inputs you can go with one of the cheaper Creative offerings or the Auzen X-Fi which does real-time DD/DTS encoding of EAX. If you're not sure if its worth it to spend on a sound card, you're better off just trying out the onboard (it is pretty good, and much improved from AC97 and earlier onboard) first and then seeing if its satisfactory to you.

To me onboard HD with the ALC888 sounds flat and tinny. Poor lows and mids with the provided equalizers and a sub redirect option that do very little to adjust. Also prone to clipping and distortion with extreme dynamic ranges, probably due to the higher internal noise and lack of dedicated opamps. And of course you don't get positional sound in most games, just an upmixed Pro Logic variant from 2-ch stereo. Some of the newer non-EAX games have Pro Logic from essentially a quadrophonic source but its still piss poor in comparison to EAX4 and 5 on an X-Fi.

 

[UpstartXT]

The problem I have with creative cards is that I hear first of all that their drivers for Vista suck and cause a lot of problems. I really don't want to have to deal with that kind of headache, or always uninstall my X-Fi every single time I get some weird glitch on my computer just to make sure it isn't my creative card. I had an X-Fi for XP and even in that OS it was causing glitches sometimes, and I got a whole lot of crackling and weird sound glitches in games that people on the individual games's forums were attributing to their creative cards. It just seems like this is one of those things that always creates a problem when you put it in your computer, and in Vista it's even worse.

Now I have never gone with the newer onboard sound stuff so I have no idea whether I will like it or not (about to build a new rig) so I am going to try it out and if I need to upgrade I will. Some of the up and coming competitors, like the Auzentech card you mentioned, say they can do EAX 5, but is it actually the same thing? If it is, then what would be the downside ot going with one of those cards (either the Auzentech x-fi or like a DX2 by Asus)?

 

[chizow]

Originally posted by: UpstartXT
The problem I have with creative cards is that I hear first of all that their drivers for Vista suck and cause a lot of problems. I really don't want to have to deal with that kind of headache, or always uninstall my X-Fi every single time I get some weird glitch on my computer just to make sure it isn't my creative card. I had an X-Fi for XP and even in that OS it was causing glitches sometimes, and I got a whole lot of crackling and weird sound glitches in games that people on the individual games's forums were attributing to their creative cards. It just seems like this is one of those things that always creates a problem when you put it in your computer, and in Vista it's even worse.

Now I have never gone with the newer onboard sound stuff so I have no idea whether I will like it or not (about to build a new rig) so I am going to try it out and if I need to upgrade I will. Some of the up and coming competitors, like the Auzentech card you mentioned, say they can do EAX 5, but is it actually the same thing? If it is, then what would be the downside ot going with one of those cards (either the Auzentech x-fi or like a DX2 by Asus)?

Well if you have used an X-Fi in the past I'd recommend trying out an onboard solution first, and then seeing if you think its worth it or not. A decent onboard solution like Realtek 888/889 will not cost you much more nowadays, typically a mid-range board in the $120-$180 range vs a bare-bones no frills board in the sub-$100 category. The mid-range boards will also pack in a few more features like enhanced chipset/mosfet cooling, cables, ports/inputs/outputs etc so they're typically worth it imo.

The DX2 and X-Fi Prelude are extreme in terms of pricing, both @$200 so I would definitely try the onboard before plunking that kind of money down. If you don't hear enough difference between the onboard and your old X-Fi experiences, you most certainly will not hear $200 worth of difference with the DX2 or Prelude. The Auzentech Prelude uses the X-Fi 20k1 chip and Creative makes their drivers, so yes its 100% EAX5 compatible. The DX2 uses an ALchemy-like wrapper in their driver that subverts DirectSound calls allowing for EAX-like effects. There's a recent review by TechReport but the conclusion about EAX-emulation seemed indecisive. I haven't heard it myself so I can't comment either.

I always try out the onboard, especially in cases where people claim they're "just as good" as what Creative is offering. And every time I've been disappointed and gone back to a Creative card. But the only way you're going to know is if you try it out first-hand. Personally I found the Realtek 888 onboard extremely lacking compared to even the Audigy 2 in XP so I got an X-Fi as I read it was a considerable upgrade. I wasn't disappointed at all but once I moved to Vista and 4GB I ran into some problems, which were fixed in a November driver update. Since then I haven't had any problems with the X-Fi, and that's with only bare minimum of drivers + Creative Audio Console installation.

 

[ShockwaveVT]

Creative treats its customers like crap and deliberately won't support older cards with Vista drivers so you're forced to buy a new one. Contrary to what some may say there are high quality alternatives out there.

I've heard good things about the Razer AC-1 sound card and I believe Asus just released a 7.1 card that supports Dolby Digital and emulates EAX. Its called the Xonar or something like that.

 

[Ghouler]

Originally posted by: ShockwaveVT
Creative treats its customers like crap and deliberately won't support older cards with Vista drivers so you're forced to buy a new one.

People say this recently but I wonder what is the REAL deal. Is it about Live cards from the 90's? Because Audigy (released in 2001) has working Vista 32 and 64 bit drivers and the same goes for all subsequent cards including all flavors of X-Fi.

Xonar was mentioned already, it seems to be decent card but NOT for gaming. It only emulates EAX in software to some extent: ASUS does not licence EAX from Creative so they can only approximate the effect. I read in one Xonar review this emulation is hit and miss e.g. front channels play rear channel signals and vice versa is (eeek!).

As for Razer AC-1 it does not even have standard headphone out - you need proprietary Razer headset. Forget it.

 

[Throckmorton]

Is there any modern equivalent to the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz? Mine is dying and it seems like the only option is Creative, some other company using a Creative chip, or a software card like the Asus.

 

[ShockwaveVT]

Originally posted by: Ghouler

Originally posted by: ShockwaveVT
Creative treats its customers like crap and deliberately won't support older cards with Vista drivers so you're forced to buy a new one.

As for Razer AC-1 it does not even have standard headphone out - you need proprietary Razer headset. Forget it.

That is incorrect. The Barracuda AC-1 comes with an adapter to convert the razer connector to standard mini-plug connectors

 

[NINaudio]

Originally posted by: Ghouler

Originally posted by: ShockwaveVT
Creative treats its customers like crap and deliberately won't support older cards with Vista drivers so you're forced to buy a new one.

People say this recently but I wonder what is the REAL deal. Is it about Live cards from the 90's? Because Audigy (released in 2001) has working Vista 32 and 64 bit drivers and the same goes for all subsequent cards including all flavors of X-Fi.

Xonar was mentioned already, it seems to be decent card but NOT for gaming. It only emulates EAX in software to some extent: ASUS does not licence EAX from Creative so they can only approximate the effect. I read in one Xonar review this emulation is hit and miss e.g. front channels play rear channel signals and vice versa is (eeek!).

As for Razer AC-1 it does not even have standard headphone out - you need proprietary Razer headset. Forget it.

Asus can use up to EAX 2.0 just like anyone else can. I bought their newest card, the Xonar DX, and just put it in my pc the other day. I've been quite impressed so far. I came from an Audigy 2, which suddenly died. It stopped putting sound out through two of its outputs. I tried the onboard sound for a week, but it just annoyed me. Didn't sound as good, and I had odd random pops in games, as well as an obnoxious static like noise when loading new areas.

So far, I've played Crysis and Guild Wars with the xonar in and had no issues with either. Sound quality over the audigy 2 is noticeably improved to me. I've heard background noises in both games that I'd never noticed before.

The review at techgage compares Creative EAX with Asus' DS3D GX 2.0 software technology and found that creative had a slight edge in sound quality but it was hard to notice. Review, if you haven't seen it. He ran into some issues with Bioshock, but I believe that things like that will be addressed by further driver updates from Asus.

Also, techreport had a very well written review of the DX, which is what swayed my decision.

Also, in the interest of full disclosure, due to personal problems with my creative mp3 player and how the "repair" was handled and the recent driver modding fiasco I have sworn off buying Creative products.

 

[PurdueRy]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton
Is there any modern equivalent to the Turtle Beach Santa Cruz? Mine is dying and it seems like the only option is Creative, some other company using a Creative chip, or a software card like the Asus.

The only part of the card that is software is the encoding and EAX simulation. Basically, its no more "software" than your turtle beach santa cruz was.