Help! Troubleshoot System Build

[mbarnes202]

Help, I cannot seem to get my new system to work. I read Anandtech all the time, but this is my first system build.

I am trying to build the AnandTech Intel Budget system. Here are the specs:

Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-EP45-UD3P(rev. 1.1)
Video Card: Gigabyte GV-R455D3-512MB
CPU: Intel E7300 w/Intel heat sink
Memory: G-Skill 2x2048 8500
PowerSupply: Corsair 400W
generic SATA DVD writer
2x500GB generic SATA HDD
Antec 300 case

When I assemble everything, turn it on, nothing happens at all-- no CPU fan, nothing. If I take the 24-pin power supply, short the 4- and 5-pins (paper-clip connecting those two), but leave everything else plugged in, everything not powered through the MB turns on-- the case fans, the HDDs spins, the DVD spins, etc.

I dissassembled everything, including the MB from the case, and had just the CPU and CPU fan (not even memory or video card) plugged in, and nothing happens when I power up, at all. (I had the 24-pin and the 8-pin power connectors connected.)

I assumed the MB was bad, so I sent the MB back (NewEgg) and got a replacement. I repeated the whole process, and, again, nothing turns on at all when I power up, but when I power everything up w/o the MB, it turns on.

Obviously, this can't also be the MB. What am I doing wrong?

I triple-checked all of the pin-outs on the MB manual and the power-supply manuals; they all agree.

I don't simply have a 2nd CPU "lying around" or a 2-nd set of memory lying around, or a 2nd video card lying around, so I can't just start swapping out various components.

Without a 2nd component of everything lying around to test, should I just return everything and buy an HP or other box?

Help

 

[Lemodular]

First of all, I hope you have been carefull to not touch the circuit board while working. Were you grounded?

Start by disconnecting everything, then with the MB on a non-conductive surface, install the CPU and HSF (make sure it's on there tight), ramm and video card. Make sure to plug in the power for the (HSF) fan and the video card. Plug the all the required power supply to the board and see if you can power the it up (you'll have to short the power switch) and hear the post beeps. If everything runs from here, install the MB back into the case using all the screws and stand-offs that will fit the case. and repeat the above process. If successfull, install the HDD and monitor and see if you will post.

Post back here when done.

 

[mbarnes202]

Lemodular,
First, thanks for some tips-- I really appreciate it, and I hope I can get this to work.
I have been very careful to ground myself, but I admit, I am not wearing a grounding bracelet, but the case and M/B are on a wooden table with a laminate top, and it's on a wooden floor. I sit down and and touch something metal before I work. I really haven't had any static discharges at all, but I suppose I am not technically fully grounded. Could that be the problem?
Second, I have not yet taken the M/B out of the case (I will do that tomorrow I hope, end of a long day), but I did the following.
I disconnected the front-panel header, the HDD light connector, the reset switch connector, the status light connector, the power switch connector, and the HD audio connector from the M/B. I disconnected all SATA connectors (I have no IDE or floppy drive). I checked my video card-- it has no power connector. I checked its manual, and saw no mention of it. I looked very carefully, and there's nowhere for the PCI-E power connector to attach to. It doesn't even have a fan. I disconnected the 24-pin power connector from the M/B.
At this point, the only things connected are: the CPU to the M/B, the heat-sink fan to the CPU, the heat-sink 4-pin power connector to the M/B, the 2 ram modules (in the same color sockets, in sockets 1- and 3-, as directed by the M/B manual), the video card, the two case-fans power supply connectors connected to power connectors (NOT to the M/B), and the 8-pin power connector to the M/B. I then take the 24-pin power connector, and short it out by connecting a paper-clip to the green wire and a black wire.
When I turn it on, the CPU fan does *NOT* turn on, but the case-fans do. I then add, in succession, power connectors to the DVD-drive, the first HDD, and the second HDD. In each case, the device and the fans power on, but the CPU fan does not. Neither are there any beeps, and the connected monitor is black. I then disconnect the 8-pin power connector, thinking perhaps there's a short in there, and power it on briefly; same thing-- no CPU fan, no POST, no beeps, but everything else is on. I reconnect the 24-pin connector to the m/b, and try again, this time NOTHING powers on, not even the case fans.
Tomorrow, I will take the M/B out of the case and try this all again.
At this point, I am beginning to think, perhaps there's a short in either the 24-pin power connector from the power supply (it has to to be the power supply, since the same thing happened with the old M/B) or the 8-pin power connector from the power-supply. Maybe it's the 8-pin, since I can get everything on using a paper-clip on the 24-pint power connector.
Sorry for the long post, but thanks for your advice and help.
Any thoughts?

 

[Lemodular]

if you suspect the power supply, I would you can either swap the PSU or use a multimeter.

Can you verify that the board is getting power? You will need a fan since your video card does not have one.

Do not plug in the other drives until you get this resolve.

 

[mbarnes202]

(sigh) Did not work.
I disconnected everything, took the M/B out of the case, and placed it on my desk on top of the grey foam-like rectangular packaging it came in. I left the CPU and heat-sink fan attached, took everything else off-- no memory, no video card, no panel connectors, nothing. I plugged in both the 24-pin and the 8-pin cables, and powered it on-- and nothing. I plugged in a HDD to the p/s, disconnected the 24-pin cable, shorted it, and turned it on, and the HDD turned on and got power.
So, power apparently is not getting to the m/b, but power is getting to other devices. So the problem is either with the 24-pin or 8-pin connector, or this m/b is also bad. Seems odd the 24-pin power connector would be bad, since I can short it and power other devices. Thinking maybe the 8-pin power connector was bad, I disconnected it but connected the 24-pin connector, and turned it on-- the CPU fan still did not turn on.
I am suspecting the 8-pin connector, but, it looks fine to me. Can't see where it would be bad.
*** Here is my new worry.
I checked again the manuals on the 8-pin connector, both for the m/b and the p/s. The problem is they are written very poorly.
Here's what the m/b manual says:

"With the use of the power connector, the power supply can supply enough stable power to all the components on the motherboard. ... The power connector possesses a foolproof design. Connect the power supply cable to the power connector in the correct orientation. The 12V power connector mainly supplies power to the CPU. If the 12V power connector is not connected, the computer will not start.
-- Use of a power supply providing a 2x4 12V power connector is recommended by the CPU manufacturer when using an Intel Extreme Edition CPU (130W). [n.b.-- my CPU is 65W]
-- To meet expansion requirements, it is recommended that a power supply that can withstand high power consumption be used (500W or greater). If a power supply is used that does not provide the required power, the result can lead to an unstable or unbootable system. [n.b.-- my p/s is 400W, but I have a 65W CPU and how much can my Radeon 4850 fanless GPU really draw?]
--The ATX_12V_2x4 power connector is compatible with power supplies with 2x2 12V power connector. When using a power supply providing a 2x4 12V and power connector, removed the protective covers from the 12V power connector and the main power connector on the motherboard. Do not insert the power supply cables into pins under the protective covers when using a power supply providing a 2x2 12V power connector."

It then shows a picture of the 8-pin "ATX_12V_2x4" connector, with 6 holes with rounded tops and two that are square. The square ones are labeled in another drawing as pin nos 1 and 4, which are ground. The problem is, the two drawings are incompatible with each other, as one clearly shows pins 1-4 on the outside edge of the m/b, but the square connectors labeled 1 and 4 are on actually on the side of the connector pointing inside the m/b, not outside.

Here's the problem. I can see that the "hot" wires (black) on the 8-pin p/s connector are going into the square sided holes (labeled Ground in the manual)-- it's the only way they will fit. I had assumed that the m/b manual is wrong-- it's wrong in one other instance I know of as well. (I mean, it only fits one way-- they would have to have them fit perfectly only when attached incorrectly, which makes no sense.)

Here's what the power supply manual says:
"The power supply unit has an 8-pin +12V; also known as "EPS12V" cable. If your motherboard has an 8-pin +12V socket, connect the 8-pin cable directly into your motherboard. If your motherboard has a 4-pin socket, detach the 4-pin from the 8-pin cable, and then plug the correct 4-pin directly to your motherboard. WARNING: the detachable 4-pin from the 24-pin main connector is not a "P4" or "+12V" connector. Serious damage can be caused if you use it in place of "P4" or "+12V" connector."

To me, it's hard to tell if they're talking about the same thing-- I mean, I assume so, but the terminology is different.

This is not the problem is it? I mean, Anandtech recommended both this P/S and this M/B for a system build-- surely it would be mentioned that the 8-pin connector is labeled in the opposite pin-outs to the m/b if that were the case?

Given the above, do you think the power supply is underpowered? (a 400W power supply for a 2.66GHz Core 2 Duo CPU and a Radeon 4850 GPU? Isn't that more than enough?) Could it be the power supply even though all the devices not connected to the m/b receive power?

This is killing me ... thanks for your help ...

 

[mbarnes202]

:disgust:

I bought a brand new Antec 500W power supply, on the off-chance that the ridiculous claims that a Core 2 Duo 2.66GHz power supply (65W) and a Radeon 9850 fanless GPU need more than 400W, or that the other power supply was bad.

Plugged in JUST the 24-pin power connector to M/B, and the CPU fan, and not a ### damn thing. Shorted the 24-pin power connector, and plugged in the case fan, and the case fan spins.

Well, that makes 2 for 2 on bad motherboards, or, I am doing something wrong. Tried- re-seating everything-- CPU, CPU fan, and tried again, and again, nothing.

Oh well.

I am defeated.

It's all going back to NewEgg, I'm probably out the money on the CPU plus the shipping and the re-stocking fee. I also have 2 HDDs that will now go unused.

What a disaster.

I had in mind to get a new Apple i-Mac at somepoint anyway. Either that, or an HP.

Thanks for all your help.

 

[mbarnes202]

:disgust:

Well,
Now it's even worse. I cannot return most of this to Newegg. It's taken me so long to diagnose, I am now beyond the window to return just about all of it.

Could it really be the m/b? Should I buy a third, or am I throwing good money after bad. How do I test these components? I already bought a new power supply.

Buy a third mobo and try that?

Or do I just stop now, and cut my losses? (I'll have a bunch of expensive paper weights around.)

 

[Lemodular]

Sorry I haven't been following your posts. I think changing the PSU was the right thing to do. It is too bad that things have taken so long to figue out and you can't return some of the components, but I think all of the components should still be good except for the MB. I would try to find another (any other) MB LOCALLY to test your system, you may find that it was the MB after all. You keep your new PSU and have the older 400W as a spare or sell it here. Assuming it was just a bad MB, you should have a working PSU, CPU, RAMM, 2xHDD and a video card; that is 90% of a working computer.



Just to be sure, you are testing the MB with just the CPU, HSF, video and ram ONLY right?

As far as the power block that was confusing to you in the earlier post, it is basically saying that there are 2 - 4 pins 12V lines in some PSU, one is for a separate 12V connection typically away from the 20 pins power connection (most older MB have this), the other is a 20+4 configuration where the 20 pins connection is supplemented by another 4 pins connection to make up 24 pins power connection such as found on more modern boards.

 

[mbarnes202]

Actually,
Not even the video and ram-- just the CPU and the HSF ...

In fact, thinking it might be the CPU, I was planning on plugging in JUST the HSF and seeing if I can get that on, or do MB manufacturers somehow not allow a power-up if only the HSF is plugged in?

 

[mbarnes202]

A few more questions--
(I have taken a few days break from this) ..

1.) If the problem with my build was only the memory, wouldn't it be likely that it it would at least turn on, but it would not post-- it would say something like "memory error"? Or would it just fail to turn on at all?

2.) Similiarly, if the problem was with the CPU, it would at least turn on, but then not progress?

3.) Since I have trouble believing two M/B were both literally DOA (and I know it's not the power supply), could I somehow (how, I have no idea, since the little triangle is definitely lined up correctly) have seated the CPU incorrectly, and the m/b is smart enough to not power up?

4.) Would the CPU fan not turn on if I had NOTHING else plugged into the m/b, not even the CPU?

Thanks

 

[Ausm]

1) Not necessarily, I have seen systems not boot up at all with bad memory or even give off a beep code. I would try the sticks individually and if that don't work then try booting up with no RAM at all you should definately get a beep code then.

2) My experience with a dead CPU's is the computer will not even get to the BIOS screen and acts "dead"

3) My guess would be either the CPU or the memory at this point, the odds of getting 2 DOA mobo's is remote.

4) not sure about this never tried it before personally.

Make sure you have your mobo out of the case on a NONconductive surface while testing the components.

 

[mbarnes202]

Thanks Ausm,
(sigh) ... I have already tried the no memory boot-up, and it still had no beep code, so it's down to the m/b or the CPU. (I already bought 2 power supplies, and both work on the other peripherals.)
I was afraid of this ... I have to buy two of everything to build one computer. I can't return this CPU to New Egg anymore, they have only a 7-day return policy. I'm not even sure I can buy one, test it, and return it, since I don't know if I can return it with the thermal paste on it.
No one I know has a socket-745 CPU just lying around.
What was supposed to be a cheap computer is definitely turning out to be much more expensive than a store-bought one.
Let's assume (I know, I know ...) that I am being extremely careful with static shock and other problems, do all of you guys have these problems?
If the problem is with the m/b or the CPU, it seems to me that you're completely hosed-- unless you happen to have extra motherboards and CPUs lying around, that are compatible with one another (which seems to defeat the purpose-- don't most people upgrade to systems that are incompatible with their previous ones?) It's impossible to test, short of buying a replacement. And, even if I do get the m/b and CPU to work, I then still haven't tested the memory or video card. If those are DOA too, I'll still be a LONG, LONG way from getting this built. This project has taken me 6 weeks so far, and I'm still going.
AARRRRGHHH

 

[mbarnes202]

I was at my local Best Buy looking for a mobo and/or CPU to test in my system, and they sell neither. There are no convenient computer hardware stores local to me.

I am now suspecting it's the CPU. I can't get a "new" CPU, since I cannot return it for a refund, only replace it, and even then, only in the first 7 days-- I would then have two CPUs. Not exactly a budget-way to go.

Sadly, I guess I'm going to pay Best Buy $60 to "diagnose" my system. At least they will be able to tell me if it's the CPU, the GPU, the Mobo, or the Memory, or some combination of all four.

I cannot do that without "spares" of all of them, and the various shipping and return policies of the places I am looking at make that impossible, at least with respect to the CPU.

At least then I will know how to proceed.

 

[TheSpeck]

So I got this motherboard and a BFG 550Watt PS, i made the same mistake everyone made, i didn't plug in all the connectors, as already stated the MB manual is very vague. My BFG apparently only supports the 4pin connecter, i have two but the other 4 pin bundled on the same cord doesn't fit. Is this going to be ok? Or should I have all 8 connected.

The system does boot up now and the cpu fan comes (it wasn't when I didn't have it all connected)

Just to edit and clarify. I have the big 24 pin connection seated (it is all bundled on one cord) there is another bundled cord with 2 4-Pin conectors one is labeled P4 with a R and L on each connector. The L fits into the socket near the CPU but the R doesn't, so i was wondering is it safe to run my system without the R connected as it booted up.

My cpu is an e7500

edit again, nm they both connect, just really hard to get them bundled together without sliding apart. Hopefully I didn't cause any permanent damage to the motherboard.

 

[mbarnes202]

:sun:

Problem solved!!!!

Well, this is the kind of thing you'd think the mobo mfg would tell you, especially when you e-mail their technical support, and they tell you to do something that will not work.

OK,
As it turns out, all of the components were fine. (I was hoping it would be something as simple as this ....)

The mobo will ***ONLY**** power on if the front-panel power-supply header is connected.

So, suggestions about taking it out of the case would never have worked, since I need to connect the case-front panel header for the mobo to power on.

Anyway, I must have missconnected it the very first time, and on all of the diagnostic efforts after that first effort, I had the mobo on a non-conductive surface OUTSIDE of the case or in the case, but without all of the front-panel connectors connected.

Amazing.

 

[pcgeek11]

The mobo will ***ONLY**** power on if the front-panel power-supply header is connected.

So, suggestions about taking it out of the case would never have worked, since I need to connect the case-front panel header for the mobo to power on.

Now that is a new one for me! I have never seen a MB that requires the front panel header... :roll:

Don't take this the wrong way but I have doubts.

 

[mbarnes202]

PCGEEK11

I Don't know what to say ...

If I turn the power supply on when everything is connected except the front panel power-button connector, nothing happens, nada, zilch, no case fan, no cpu fan, nothing.

If I turn the power supply on with the front panel power button connector connected, and hit the front-panel power on button, everything turns on.

What else could it be?

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally posted by: mbarnes202
PCGEEK11

I Don't know what to say ...

If I turn the power supply on when everything is connected except the front panel power-button connector, nothing happens, nada, zilch, no case fan, no cpu fan, nothing.

How are you turning on the power supply with the header disconnected?

You did short the power pins on the header connector on the motherboard for just a moment didn't you?

pcgeek11

 

[mbarnes202]

Well,
Perhaps the way I shorted it was wrong-- I took a bent paper clip and touched both pins in the front-panel header, after of course the power-supply was turned on in the back of the power supply-- and that didn't work. It was the same method I used to check the power-supply itself.
How does one normally short those pins?

 

[pcgeek11]

I have a momentary switch ( like the one in the front panel ) wired to a connector I slip on the header.

Remember you just make the connection for a second and remove it.

pcgeek11

 

[mbarnes202]

I'm going to chalk it up that I must have shorted it incorrectly.

Maybe by holding the paper clip while I did it, I prevented the circuit, and it couldn't get it to turn on.

Thanks everyone for all your help.

I must say, having a computer with no CRAPWARE on it is great. Very "clean" start-menus and the like do improve my daily work-experience with it.