Help with lapping

larciel

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
4,590
8
81
Followed several websites for lapping, but even after 2000grit finish, I still have alot of scratches and new scratches appear if I start with new 2000grit paper. I'm nowhere near mirror-like finish, more like 800-1200 finish.

any tips on how to achieve the mirror-like finish?

Thanks
 

BlueAcolyte

Platinum Member
Nov 19, 2007
2,793
2
0
You don't need a mirror finish. Is it smooth and coppery?
I hope you haven't sanded through the IHS?
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
You don't need a mirror finish. Scratches, even as you would find with a "brushed aluminum case-side-panel" -- are OK. It should be flat. I recommend Innovation Cooling's IC Diamond paste. Use Arctic Silver 5 if you want. Use a razor-blade in either case to spread the paste outward from a blob in the center. Coat both the IHS and the HS base, or "fit" the base first after coating the IHS, then apply a tad more in the "tinted" or stained area.
 

Sheninat0r

Senior member
Jun 8, 2007
515
1
81
Flat > mirror finish. Mirror finishes are only for photos to put online and boost your e-peen
 

sutahz

Golden Member
Dec 14, 2007
1,300
0
0
"I hope you haven't sanded through the IHS?" Man, that'd take all day. I'm sure someone has done it before though.
The lapping guides should have said that a mirror finish is not req'd, and a few should/might have even said a non-mirror finish is preferable.
Just ensure its flat (as guides should have instructed).
I'm sure any TIM is fine, i forget who on this forum/site mentioned it, but he lapped his IHS and HSF and booted up his pc w/ no TIM, recorded his temps, applied the TIM and retested for temps. Same temps both times. TIM is good for OEM IHS and unlapped HSF's because they are not 'perfectly' flat and need something to fill in the resulting gap(s). It also gives peace of mind.
 

Billb2

Diamond Member
Mar 25, 2005
3,035
70
86
Originally posted by: larciel
I still have alot of scratches and new scratches appear if I start with new 2000grit paper.
It helps to very carefully clean the part being lapped and anything else that gets "grit" on it...glass, hands, the water you dip the paper into, etc., before starting a new grit. If you don't do that, the "grit" that falls off the current paper gets onto the new, finer paper. Just a couple of grains cam really screw thing up when you're working with very fine grits, especially if they're from 2 or 3 previous grits.
 

larciel

Diamond Member
May 23, 2001
4,590
8
81
Thanks for advice all. It was wrongly labeled sand paper that was fault. Bought 2000grit at autozone for $4 and it did the job.
 

nonameo

Diamond Member
Mar 13, 2006
5,902
2
76
If you want to get it even shinier, use Mother's Mag and aluminum polish to get it there. Just be sure to get it off with some alcohol when you're done. Caveat: it's only cosmetic.
 

jedisoulfly

Member
Jul 2, 2007
61
0
0
If you do a lot of lapping and want to ensure a perfectly flat surface check out this site. The 6" x 8" one for $12.95 ($20.85 after shipping great shipping considering it weighs 12lbs) is more than large enough IMO for the lapping of HS and IHS. Has bilateral accuracy of plus or minus .0001"

I have seen advertised for some HS (can't think of what ones off hand) that they hand lap to 1200 or sometimes 1600. Most likely they are lapping on surface plates just like this. The average table, counter or desk top is going to have a much higher tolerance than .0001"

http://www.grizzly.com/product...=granite+surface+plate
 

BonzaiDuck

Lifer
Jun 30, 2004
15,882
1,550
126
I NEVER worry about a mirror finish. Today, I did some chipset coolers starting with 320-grit wet-or-dry and ending up with 400-grit. Sometimes, I finish with 600-grit, but it isn't necessary. It may not be a mirror finish, but it's a shiny finish, and the right kind of thermal paste will eliminate any difference between "mirror" and "shiny" for the degree-for-degree temperature improvement.

For an experiment I tried last year with a $35 collector's edition silver-dollar for use with a heatsink, I need to grind down two 1/2" thick 4"x4" pieces of steel-plate for "smithing" the lapped coin. [The experiment was a failure, but . . . ]

400-grit will create a mirror finish on steel. It leaves fine scratches on copper because copper is softer than steel . . .
 

QuixoticOne

Golden Member
Nov 4, 2005
1,855
0
0
A mirror finish is pretty and can be a fun / satisfying thing to 'show off'
but then who's ever going to see it with the heatsink on there?

Actually I've read a compelling article (see below) suggesting that a
MICROSCOPOCALLY ROUGH BUT FLAT surface will actually transfer heat usefully BETTER
than a mirror polished one.

The idea is that the paste you have has solid particles of a certain range of diameter sizes
in it as its heat transfer mechanism, e.g. alumina, silver, whatever. These are
often a few microns in size (diameter). They bridge the contact the other surfaces
BEST if they're basically sitting in little micro trenches not much bigger than the
particle size.

If you have two flat surfaces of 1 sq. inch and they're mirror flat, put them together
and you'll have a maximum of 1 squ. inch contact area between them and really
a lot less than that without the paste to bridge the micro-voids.

If the surfaces are rougher, even through the macroscopic size may 1 sq. inch, the
fractal surface area including the "up and down" microscopic hills / valleys will be
GREATER than 1 sq. inch, and you'll actually end up with more surface areas in
closer contact through the paste particles with that "optimum" surface roughness
than you would if they were smoother.

Thus if you lap and polish down to around 600 to 800 grit it's
(a) good enough, and (b) you probably don't get BETTER results with any
finer finish and in fact you may get WORSE results.

Source citation:

http://www.overclockers.com/tips458/

"Why Heatsink Polishing Might Be A Bad Idea"
Simon Watkins - 5/14/01

I used to be involved in the manufacture of Acousto-Optic devices for use within high power laser cavities. One of the products was called a Q switch. It was basically a piece of quartz with polished ends through which the laser passed, and a piezoelectric transducer fitted on one face parallel and in line with the laser that could cause diffraction in the beam when it was energized.

Anyway to cut a long story short, the quartz block, because of optical losses and heating by the laser, not to mention high levels of RF energy being fed into the transducer would get very hot - we were pumping 50W CW of NdYag energy into the quartz, and the q-switching effect would result in peak powers of several thousand watts - so hot that the quartz would be destroyed in the laser cavity very quickly if it wasn't cooled.

I remember being involved in a number of experiments during the development of the product that investigated means to cool the device efficiently. In the end, water cooling blocks were used to sandwich the quartz. We experimented with improving the interface between the quartz and the aluminum blocks, and used exactly the same techniques people are using today with H/S and CPU. Heatsink compound, lapping etc.

The aluminum water blocks were made optically flat using the same lapping tools used to flatten the quartz. We are talking extreme flatness here - but flatness being key rather more than smoothness.

Anyway, one thing we found was that if we made the mating surface of the aluminum block too smooth, we lost cooling efficiency - similarly if it was too coarse. To the extent that if we polished the surface, we got significantly worse performance than when the heatsink surface was matte after lapping with, say, 400-600 grade carborundum.

Our conclusions were that the micro pits and valleys left behind after finishing with coarser grade carborundum left micro cavities within which the heatsink compound could fill, but the micro peaks of the aluminium would provide good physical contact to the quartz when the whole assembly was squeezed together under pressure; the micro peaks would flatten slightly providing millions of micro plateaus of contact surface.

On the polished blocks, there was nowhere for the heatsink compound to go, other than out the sides of course, but you could never exert sufficient pressure to squeeze ALL the heatsink compound out, so you got poor quality thermal transfer through the HS compound sandwich.

Whereas on the rougher surfaced blocks, given a sensibly thin application of heatsink compound, there would be a very high proportion of aluminium making contact with the quartz and any pits would be taken care of by the HS compound. If we went too coarse, there was too little of the aluminum in direct contact with the quartz and temperatures worsened again.

We found the results hard to believe at first, as we all believed somewhat blindly that the polished surface would be best, yet the flat surfaced, but coarser finished heatsinks outperformed the polished ones significantly.

Basically with a polished sink, you'll never put a thin enough coat of H/S compound on it for it all to be expelled, given the relatively limited pressure you can apply. So what is key to achieving optimum thermal conductivity is a high aluminium to CPU contact - micropeaks and perfect flatness will ensure that you achieve that. Try using only up to 600 paper on your heatsinks, no finer.

The manufacturers are possibly aware of this fact as well. Take an FOP38 heatsink for instance. Its base is very flat (I measured mine with an optical flat), but pretty coarse (too coarse I think). Now GlobalWin is perfectly capable of machining the thing somewhat smoother - the sides of the heatsink are finished to a much finer finish than the base.

I suspect the reason for their reasonably coarse base finish is to accommodate the somewhat viscous phase change material, as recommended by AMD. So lapping the heatsink to a finer degree and using heatsink compound instead will help in reducing temps to a degree (groan).

Additionally, the somewhat more viscous nature of Arctic Silver will also help with a coarsely finished interface, because it has a lower thermal resistance than silicon HS compound - that is, IF they are both applied so they are forming the filling of a sandwich!

In a more professional application of the heatsink compound, ideally you need a less viscous substance so that maximal metal to CPU contact can occur. If you can't achieve that because you are making a compound sandwich, you will never get optimum temps.

Anyway, take that info for what it cost you. I just thought it may be of interest, and provoke some discussion.

Simon Watkins
 

MadScientist

Platinum Member
Jul 15, 2001
2,155
48
91
Not another lapping thread. I know the search here isn't the greatest but this has been discussed ad nauseam. I linked to that article at Overclockers back in this thread, Link, but I think it's worth mentioning again.
 
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