Help with Pre-Approval BS.

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KMc

Golden Member
Jan 26, 2007
1,153
0
76
My wife is a realtor and would NEVER give a prospective client information about mortgages, or ask them for any financial information for that matter. That's a good way to get sued, in my opinion. She does give her clients names of reputable brokers she has worked with if they request it, but you definitely want to do your mortgage homework seperately from your real estate homework.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Well, I am looking at co-ops in the Bronx, near where I work. $125k would get a decent sized 2BR. Not much square footage, but usable space.

Don't forget too to look at 4 Sale By owners. Just if you go that route, get a house inspection and an ATTORNEY .
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
My wife is a realtor and would NEVER give a prospective client information about mortgages, or ask them for any financial information for that matter. That's a good way to get sued, in my opinion. She does give her clients names of reputable brokers she has worked with if they request it, but you definitely want to do your mortgage homework seperately from your real estate homework.

I know I didn't. E and O won't cover you for stuff like that.
 

jtvang125

Diamond Member
Nov 10, 2004
5,399
51
91
The only thing I need a realtor for these days is actually getting me in the house. You can find homes via realtor.com and don't need anyone to search in your behalf, IMO.

Lol so true. Probably about 95% of the houses I looked at were found by me online. Showing the place and writing the offers are pretty much all we need from them these days. Yea, you can write your own offers but many times only an agent has access to the selling agent's contact information.
 
Nov 7, 2000
16,404
3
81
Lol so true. Probably about 95% of the houses I looked at were found by me online. Showing the place and writing the offers are pretty much all we need from them these days. Yea, you can write your own offers but many times only an agent has access to the selling agent's contact information.
yep. all the houses the agent showed us were terrible, the one we asked to have a showing for was far and above higher quality and a better deal. we still appreciated his services in writing offer, communicating with selling agent and organizing everything, but it would have been foolish to rely on him for the actual house hunting.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
This thread is funny.

FWIW, I think ignoring people is just silly. I thought the conversation was interesting, and was looking forward to OCGuy's reply, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

This is a discussion forum. Discuss things. Even if you disagree.
 
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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
This thread is funny.

FWIW, I think ignoring people is just silly. I thought the conversation was interesting, and was looking forward to OCGuy's reply, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

This is a discussion forum. Discuss things. Even if you disagree.

He knows he was wrong and got corrected. I have never ever blocked anyone, even those I truly hate with blood shot eyed passion. They might be wrong today, but tomorrow they say something that really helps me. People like OC claim to be so educated and so successful, but yet at the slightest push back run off like scalded dog. They are just a bunch of mental midgets and the irony, they actually truly believe, lol, they really believe I give a damn that they put me on an ignore list. A bunch babbling, snotty nosed babies.
 

OCGuy

Lifer
Jul 12, 2000
27,227
36
91
This thread is funny.

FWIW, I think ignoring people is just silly. I thought the conversation was interesting, and was looking forward to OCGuy's reply, but I guess that isn't going to happen.

This is a discussion forum. Discuss things. Even if you disagree.


I'm not sure how to explain this...but someone questioning the credentials of someone with 100x more knowledge on the subject just doesnt deserve a response. I don't need to prove to anyone what I do for a living and how well I do it. I could easily post pics of my drawers full of 70+ active loans...or my 1040s showing just what I make because I am in the upper echelon of my field...but it isnt worth it.

This person is below responding to. I am happy to help anyone in a RE financing situation, as I always have on these forums. People can either believe that I know what I am talking about, or believe the person saying I don't. Either way, it doesn't bother me.

But I will not entertain ludicrous statements and accusations from someone who I can honestly tell you knows nothing about my field.

Since this thread started, I have approved over $1,200,000 in home loans. That is all I have to say.
 

velillen

Platinum Member
Jul 12, 2006
2,120
1
81
I am buying a house as we speak (actually waiting for the counter offer on the house i want to come back which should be in the next ~3 hours). I live across the country but can offer ya a bit of what i've learned noticed.

On the agents -

Shop around a bit. Going with referrals is good but you might not like them or whatever. I personally was going out to open houses and met my realtor at an open house. I just liked how honest he was and he has been honest since day 1. The house he was showing once i told him what i sort of wanted (yard for a dog, 2 bed room, ect) he right there said this house isnt for you. And he wasnt even my agent at the time. Wasnt till 2-3 weeks later i emailed me with a list of things i wanted in a house and my price range. My guy is part time so bit different but still all legal and such. he just doesnt get a chance to prelook at the house sin person or anything. We went to a few houses that looked good on paper but once inside he pretty much told me he wouldnt put an offer in and explained WHY. All his reasons were damn good (like wouldnt pass inspection, poor quality, ect). After 3 months working with him i definitely felt safe taking his advice.

As for mortgage people -

Definitely shop around. I went to 4 places before sort of settling on the place i will do my loan at. Went to a "private" mortgage/loan place. They didnt offer FHA/USDA loans so i was already turned off but figured why not. Lady there rushed through getting my info. barely explained anything and emailed me the next day with what i qualified for. Which was a pathetic amount at the time. Only ~140k. I had a high truck payment at the time but she didnt even offer to work with it or anything. As reference the next guy worked and basically told me o f i pay the truck off i can qualify for 280k (yeah right i'd like to eat lol) and if i halved it i could easily get my 200 i was hoping for.

Next guy i went to was good and helpful but was always busy so hard ot talk with. also didnt offer FHA (some salience expired or some crap, they were re getting the license)

The last place was actually spur of the moment. I found my house on Sunday (ie this Sunday). Looked at it again Monday and still liked it (took mom this time). Then again on Tuesday (this time with dad). Decided to put an offer. But alas i wasnt prequalified. (never "officially got it" but got an "unoffical" one to get price range i could qualify for). Well my realtor actually knew this lady would do this fast. he called her that night (we'd decided this at 7pm lol). Called her at 8am the next morning and gave her my info over the phone. By the time work was over and i went to officially hand over paperwork i had been prequalified and had the paperwork to put the offer in. Not bad for less than 8 hour.This last lady is actually a team over just a lady but man they have been super helpful. They are private and somewhat smaller. i got to meet with the owner who explained exactly how his company worked. Told me exactly how much they would make off my loan. I mean anything i wanted to know he pulled it up right then and there and figured it out. I was really impressed. he stayed late for me and spent a good two hours answering everything i could think of and he explained way more than i cared to know.




Long story short....find agents and lenders you like. If they arent there for you, forget them and go somewhere else. Someone out there is going to want YOU and is going to find what YOU want. I was lucky and found it in my first agent
 

amdhunter

Lifer
May 19, 2003
23,324
219
106
Lol so true. Probably about 95% of the houses I looked at were found by me online. Showing the place and writing the offers are pretty much all we need from them these days. Yea, you can write your own offers but many times only an agent has access to the selling agent's contact information.

What websites did you use?
 

Bignate603

Lifer
Sep 5, 2000
13,897
1
0
Is this first time buyer variable loan bullshit? If so, how can I report her for unfair practices. I didn't let her have any of my information and I won't be going there again. It was a REMAX office.

What exactly are you planning on reporting her for? This is the realestate equivalent of selling people monster cables and extended warranties. It's shady, but in the end because you agree to it and sign the documents (which most people never read) there's nothing illegal about it.

That being said, she's crap. Don't go back. Ask around to people that you know that have bought home and ask if they liked their realtor, it's the best way to find one in your area.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,648
5,338
136
When you actually get the loan papers, read them, and add up the numbers. I had a broker hand me a set of loan docs that were loaded with several thousand dollars in fee's and charges for services that I never received. Most of them he couldn't explain, and the interest rate was a full point higher than what he said it would be. I refused to sign and asked him to leave.
 

dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
I'm not sure how to explain this...but someone questioning the credentials of someone with 100x more knowledge on the subject just doesnt deserve a response. I don't need to prove to anyone what I do for a living and how well I do it. I could easily post pics of my drawers full of 70+ active loans...or my 1040s showing just what I make because I am in the upper echelon of my field...but it isnt worth it.

This person is below responding to. I am happy to help anyone in a RE financing situation, as I always have on these forums. People can either believe that I know what I am talking about, or believe the person saying I don't. Either way, it doesn't bother me.

But I will not entertain ludicrous statements and accusations from someone who I can honestly tell you knows nothing about my field.

Since this thread started, I have approved over $1,200,000 in home loans. That is all I have to say.

I find your posts in this thread credible, classy not so much based upon what he's saying. Absolutely don't take mortgage "advice" from a realtor, always due your own diligence.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
I find your posts in this thread credible, classy not so much based upon what he's saying. Absolutely don't take mortgage "advice" from a realtor, always due your own diligence.

If you think a supposed mortage guy who believes ARMs are never necessary, then you would be better off getting your mortage advice from a gas station attendant.

His statements are misleading and quite frankly erroneous. He backtracked and added where he concedes ARMs do help people qualify.

ARMs are not only sometimes necessary, but many times the correct mortage to get. ARMs can save a person a lot of money in the right situation. To read a mortage person completely dismiss someone who mentions ARMs as being incompetent, is laughable. Its so out of character for a true mortage person, I question if he is telling the truth as what he does.

He even tried to throw out the Fannie and Freddy. That to me raises a huge red flag, because they are bigtime buyers of mortages, not originators.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
If you think a supposed mortage guy who believes ARMs are never necessary, then you would be better off getting your mortage advice from a gas station attendant.

His statements are misleading and quite frankly erroneous. He backtracked and added where he concedes ARMs do help people qualify.

ARMs are not only sometimes necessary, but many times the correct mortage to get. ARMs can save a person a lot of money in the right situation. To read a mortage person completely dismiss someone who mentions ARMs as being incompetent, is laughable. Its so out of character for a true mortage person, I question if he is telling the truth as what he does.

He even tried to throw out the Fannie and Freddy. That to me raises a huge red flag, because they are bigtime buyers of mortages, not originators.

can you point out where he said they are never necessary? i read the thread and missed it. He did say they are NEVER required. slight difference.

...he also said that fannie and freddy own 90 of the mortgages but never said they start them.

His advice is true. the OP does NOT NEED a arm loan. they are changing them because of the housing fiasco.

some people arms are great. the OP hasn't given us much info on if its a good or bad idea.

We did say he should run from that realtor for giving him bad info and advice. In fact he shouldn't be talking with them about his finances anyway.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
can you point out where he said they are never necessary? i read the thread and missed it. He did say they are NEVER required. slight difference.

...he also said that fannie and freddy own 90 of the mortgages but never said they start them.

His advice is true. the OP does NOT NEED a arm loan. they are changing them because of the housing fiasco.

some people arms are great. the OP hasn't given us much info on if its a good or bad idea.

We did say he should run from that realtor for giving him bad info and advice. In fact he shouldn't be talking with them about his finances anyway.



First off, in many people's situations they are required.

His quote
I underwrite and process Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and FHA home loans. They together own 9 out of 10 loans that are funded in this country.

Underwriting and owning loans are two totally different things. So his underwriting experience has very little to do with F and F owning a majority of the loans. Those loans are underwritten by other banks and the approval process is different for each one. Those loans are then purchased by F and F in the secondary market. Maybe not for FHA type loans though. I think those loan guidelines are set by the Feds.

My whole argument is the OP never shared true info with anyone, including the agent. So based on the many different things I put out there, the truth is he may or may not need an ARM. To touch even further, he may want to have an ARM considering the circumstances.

He the states that firstime buyers are not special anymore. I said I disagree, they are even more special now because of the many changes.

As for ARMs changing a whole lot, well it depends on who you ask. The year to year caps have definately changed.

The other stuff we are in agreement with.

My comment on the agent is, I can't say for certain she did or did not give him bad advice. No one knows his financial picture and my critcism of him is he should have clarified that with a mortage company anyway.

I am giving both people the benefit of the doubt that maybe they misunderstood each other through conversation. I am just not going say someone I don't know is a bad agent or bad anything when so few details appeared to have been shared between both parties.

His financial picture is none of her business, as I have already said, but it is her business to make sure he has written proof he can buy a house. His personal statements mean nothing, he needed to provide her with proof, that is his responsibility. We were not even allowed to put in an offer without validating the person has been checked out by a mortage company. No legal law, just office policy and I am sure it is like that in many offices.

Many people heard the word ARM and just freaked out. ARMs have a place and in many spots are the preferred mortage. If Mr. $1.2 million wasn't so above everyone, maybe he could have taken the time to explain the purposes and good uses for getting an ARM. Even if he doesn't like them. Doesn't sound like the best route for AH, but it is certainly not a bad option to get some info on it either.

As for the baby stuff, blocking people and what not, that's just comical.
 

darkamulets

Senior member
Feb 21, 2002
784
0
76
I'm not so sure what's wrong with a variable rate. My mortgage has a variable rate; after one bank that had preapproved us for a much larger loan backed out of financing this house (because it didn't have water or a heating system - new pump & heating system the day after we closed took care of that) we briefly searched before determining that we needed the assistance of a mortgage broker. We had 2 weeks to finance it & close - and our broker accomplished that; the variable rate mortgage was apparently the best he could do with that span of time to work with.

Anyway, my current interest rate is around 2% or something like that. (I think I posted it in another thread on interest rates, whatever it was.) It has never been above what the current fixed rate is.

edit: re: lending tree. Do you *really* want to pick a lender that needs to go to lending tree in order to drum up enough business? I didn't think about it that way once. It's one of my life's greatest regrets.



I'm with you on the lending tree thing. I dealt with a few and it's alot of time wasting, you'll see the best possible rate available on their site but what you get is always entirely different.

I tried BoA, Chase, JP Morgan, my own credit union and bank atlantic. All the inhouse guys were slow as shit or never called me back. I spoke to my realtor (good friends wife) and she recommended a broker. Yes you pay him essentially a finder's fee, but it's so much faster to just go through one person that will interface to everyone else for you.

In the end I ended up with a private mortgage company that gave me 3.65% over 30yrs fixed for my first home with 3.5% down. I took the PMI bullet since I wanted to have cash on me to fix up the place and plan to put the necessary amount down into my principal by the 5yr line.

The really funny part (which was explained by the broker) was that my mortgage was sold the day after I closed to BoA, even though they wouldn't give me the time of day. I received my first months payment slip that I never got to use as it was changed to BoA.

To summarize, ask around your friends & family. Someone recently either sold or bought, get information from them on who they used and ask for a mortgage broker. Don't be afraid to ask to haggle down their fees.
 

flvinny521

Member
Jul 29, 2011
111
0
0
First of all, let me preface this by saying I do not have personal experience with EVERY lender in the country, so this policy may not apply to all of them. When you apply for an adjustable loan, the lender still qualifies you as if you were taking a higher fixed-rate loan. Therefore, when making sure your debt ratio is under the required limits, there is no difference betwen the two. If you can qualify for one, you will also qualify for the other. However, there ARE good reasons to finance with an ARM, which may or may not apply to you specifcally.

If your realtor thinks there is a difference, either she normally works with small, local lenders that do not follow this policy, or she doesn't know what she is talking about.
 
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torpid

Lifer
Sep 14, 2003
11,631
11
76
Fixed rate mortgages are an unholy abomination created by the FHA as part of a dastardly plot to steal our underwear.
 

Turin39789

Lifer
Nov 21, 2000
12,219
8
81
Jesus Christ amdhunter do not listen to anything Classy says. And leave that realtor.

Research the mortgage/homebuying process. Realtors can be helpful for handholding and may even be required in some markets, but the reality is you can do most of it yourself and even if you are working with a realtor the more informed you are the better.

Pre-approval - Find a mortgage broker or bank you want to deal with. Shop around and find out where rates are at. Check out Fatwallet, there are/were a few good brokers there who are very upfront(MortgageManNJ and some other guy) who can get you good rates and are easy to work with. Check Penfed, Suntrust and even your local banks. We were working with one of the FW guys, talked to our local bank(worse rates and hassle), and eventually ended up getting a message from a PNC broker through a post on zillow.com about a mortgage inquiry. Your agent has nothing to do with your financing. Check the rates, find a bank, give them your info.

We were able to see any listings online through local realtor websites. Most of the big companies in the area have a searchable MLS and I imagine this is true for you too. You can also check out FSBO sites, craigslist and in our area there were still FSBO's who still did it with the newspaper or just a sign in their yard. Zillow can also show you recently sold homes, so you can check some comps on your own to see what other homes in the area are going for.

Once you find a place and get an offer accepted you will need to get a home inspection done. Our realtor had a guy but we researched local home inspectors and their certifications and picked our own.

Did the same with title insurance and our closing attorney. Realtor had them available but was able to save a few hundred $ on each by shopping arround.

If you really get a good handle on the process, there were several local realtors who would refund you a portion of their comission, but I would imagine they have a lower service level and you will be doing some more of the work yourself.

In the end we wound up doing an FHA 5/1 ARM because the rate was lower than the fixed and we plan to be out of this home within 5-8 years and even in a worst case scenario where the loan corrected up the max every year we will still come out ahead on this timeframe. We did pay PMI because 20% down would have taken all our savings and instead we kept some liquid security and had enough to remodel the kitchen in the first year. In the past the unscruplous would push an ARM on people to get them into a home they couldn't afford. In exchange for a low intro rate that would eventually spike, you get a low monthly payment than with a fixed. Now I would be surprised if you would be approved for an ARM unless you could afford it after it goes up. We got amortization tables from our loan officer showing exaclty how much we would be paying in interest and principal every year for our loans.


Ok I rambled and lost the thread of my thought.
 

classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
Jesus Christ amdhunter do not listen to anything Classy says. And leave that realtor.

Research the mortgage/homebuying process. Realtors can be helpful for handholding and may even be required in some markets, but the reality is you can do most of it yourself and even if you are working with a realtor the more informed you are the better.

Pre-approval - Find a mortgage broker or bank you want to deal with. Shop around and find out where rates are at. Check out Fatwallet, there are/were a few good brokers there who are very upfront(MortgageManNJ and some other guy) who can get you good rates and are easy to work with. Check Penfed, Suntrust and even your local banks. We were working with one of the FW guys, talked to our local bank(worse rates and hassle), and eventually ended up getting a message from a PNC broker through a post on zillow.com about a mortgage inquiry. Your agent has nothing to do with your financing. Check the rates, find a bank, give them your info.

We were able to see any listings online through local realtor websites. Most of the big companies in the area have a searchable MLS and I imagine this is true for you too. You can also check out FSBO sites, craigslist and in our area there were still FSBO's who still did it with the newspaper or just a sign in their yard. Zillow can also show you recently sold homes, so you can check some comps on your own to see what other homes in the area are going for.

Once you find a place and get an offer accepted you will need to get a home inspection done. Our realtor had a guy but we researched local home inspectors and their certifications and picked our own.

Did the same with title insurance and our closing attorney. Realtor had them available but was able to save a few hundred $ on each by shopping arround.

If you really get a good handle on the process, there were several local realtors who would refund you a portion of their comission, but I would imagine they have a lower service level and you will be doing some more of the work yourself.

In the end we wound up doing an FHA 5/1 ARM because the rate was lower than the fixed and we plan to be out of this home within 5-8 years and even in a worst case scenario where the loan corrected up the max every year we will still come out ahead on this timeframe. We did pay PMI because 20% down would have taken all our savings and instead we kept some liquid security and had enough to remodel the kitchen in the first year. In the past the unscruplous would push an ARM on people to get them into a home they couldn't afford. In exchange for a low intro rate that would eventually spike, you get a low monthly payment than with a fixed. Now I would be surprised if you would be approved for an ARM unless you could afford it after it goes up. We got amortization tables from our loan officer showing exaclty how much we would be paying in interest and principal every year for our loans.


Ok I rambled and lost the thread of my thought.


You are right don't listen to me, lol, but in the end you took an ARM and I do believe it was me who pointed out that ARMs are useful.

As for refunding part of their commission, that is illegal. I know it is in NJ and I willing to bet in every state it is. Its illegal for any person to recieve payment or some kickback out of a real estate transaction.

Yea don't listen to me, but he sure as hell shouldn't listen to you. Getting a bad deal is far better than going to prison.

This thread is just comical.
 
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classy

Lifer
Oct 12, 1999
15,219
1
81
First of all, let me preface this by saying I do not have personal experience with EVERY lender in the country, so this policy may not apply to all of them. When you apply for an adjustable loan, the lender still qualifies you as if you were taking a higher fixed-rate loan. Therefore, when making sure your debt ratio is under the required limits, there is no difference betwen the two. If you can qualify for one, you will also qualify for the other. However, there ARE good reasons to finance with an ARM, which may or may not apply to you specifcally.

If your realtor thinks there is a difference, either she normally works with small, local lenders that do not follow this policy, or she doesn't know what she is talking about.

Well Ocguy lets see, you might be right. But then explain why is it I know for a fact two banks would not approve a loan for folks with the fixed rate, but approved them with the ARM?

Now I am just asking. And one was Chase I am 99% sure and the other one I am not to sure about at all.

I am interested in this explanation because with an ARM you are getting a much lower interest rate, so your debt to income ratio would change.
 
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