High bang for buck Audiophile Soundcard recomendations

[Algere]

"The Prodigy has superior drivers"
I don't find the simplicity of the Revolution's driver control panel lacking nor unstable and if your basing the superiority of the Prodigy's drivers based on if the reviewer said about the stability between the 2, yet again it may or may not be accurate since the article is somewhat outdated.

"The Prodigy does not suffer the huge framerate hits in games that the otherwise excelent M-Audio Revolution does."
That review was created before the Revolution 7.1's latest driver and/or Sensaura update and months before the Revolution 5.1 (which has lower CPU utilization than it's predecessor and/or Envy24 HT class DSPs which includes the Prodigy) was officially released. Regardless, both cards or all if the Revo 5.1 is considered, take a good framerate hit in games since neither of them have hardware acceleration like the Audigy class of cards.

from what I have read in comparrisons of the two (Prodigy/M-Audio) is that the Prodigy is a bit more refinend, and excelent card to listen to Jazz and Classical music for instance; where as they mention the M-Audio is a more "ballsy rock 'n roll fun style card".
Matter of YMMV (different ppl, different ears) but a starting reference nevertheless. Although it doesn't put into consideration the Revolution 5.1 which utilizes a different DAC from that of the Revolution 7.1.

"My games also seem to have a nicer sound to them as well for some reason, I noticed this immeidiatly. Much more of an immersive sound field for games than the M-Auido I also read in a review."
How did you come to the conclusion that it's more immersive than the Revolution if the only impression you got from the gaming performance of the M-Audio is from a written review? To make a true comparison between the 2 means you have to have both cards @ your disposal (A/B testing), not compare your real life personal experience with the Prodigy against a statement someone else made about the Revolution 7.1 within a review which can be considered possibly inaccurate by now due to driver and/or Sensaura updates that came after said posted review.

 

[CSMR]

Cards worth considering:
E-MU 0404m or 1212m
M-Audio Audiophile (PCI), M-Audio Transit (USB)
No need to go for a multichannel card.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: CSMR
E-MU 0404m

New EMU card?

 

[morme]

Do any of you know where I can get the Project Phonobox at a good price?

 

[1UP]

Sorry for any thread hijack, but, Algere,

how big are the trade-offs in gaming framerates when using one of these non-Audigy audiophile cards? Are some worse than others given that they use the same chipset?

Also, would you lose certain FX with these cards because certain 3D features (directsound/eax) are not supported in their drivers?

With all things (music sound quality, onboard DACs, gaming) taken into account, which cards would you recommend at different price points?

Thanks for any advice here, as I'm also eager to upgrade from my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz, but I listen to music on my PC using headphones (hope to get a headphone amp) and I also game quite a bit ... I want the best of both worlds!

 

[Algere]

how big are the trade-offs in gaming framerates when using one of these non-Audigy audiophile cards?

The tradeoffs in framerates aren't that big until more sound channels are utilized then it's big. If your a gamer first then a Audigy would preferably be best. OTOH if you don't need every single CPU cycle for games or if you have a fast CPU then it shouldn't matter much. IIRC in a current game (don't remember which) the framerate drop was within 5 FPS compared to a A2 and in some benchmarks i.e. 3DMark03 or RightMark 3D Sound the CPU usage & framerate drops were drastic on certain tests.

Are some worse than others given that they use the same chipset?

With the same chipset some may perform slightly worse/better to one another mainly due to different drivers used from their respective manufacturers/models. In contrast to an Audigy they perform about the same or at least in the same league.

Also, would you lose certain FX with these cards because certain 3D features (directsound/eax) are not supported in their drivers?

Depends on card model & most if not all current sound cards support DirectSound. As for the EAX API, due to Creative's proprietary restrictions of their EAX versions. Most current sound cards will only support up to EAX 2 while [:evil:] Creative has support for EAX 3 & 4 on their cards.

With all things (music sound quality, onboard DACs, gaming) taken into account, which cards would you recommend at different price points?

Consumer level soundcards
Chaintech AV-710 (Some tinkering may be needed)
$30

M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (Less amp dependant than AV-710)
First priority: Music
$70

Creative SoundBlaster Audigy 2
First priority: Games (Possibly less amp dependant than AV-710)
$70

Professional level soundcards
EMU 0404 (Patchmix DSP software interface may be too cumbersome for some)
$100

EMU 1212M (Patchmix DSP software interface may be too cumbersome for some)
1212M may not necessarily be better sound qualitywise than the 0404. Just different
$200

 

[superlie]

Great post - very helpful for me Thankx

 

[1UP]

That was indeed a great post, thanks, too.

All that's left is to ask your thoughts where (you speculate) the Audigy 4 pro would come on this list?

 

[konakona]

Originally posted by: 1UP
That was indeed a great post, thanks, too.

All that's left is to ask your thoughts where (you speculate) the Audigy 4 pro would come on this list?

it is highly unlikely creative would make a card focused on quality playback as thats not the market segment they are trying to appeal to. besides, they dont need to as they own EMU for that.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: 1UP
That was indeed a great post, thanks, too.

All that's left is to ask your thoughts where (you speculate) the Audigy 4 pro would come on this list?

Last month Creative had a "get together" so to speak which included talk about EAX 5 & new hardware. I can't help to think that that new hardware spoken about could come out in the near future.

P.S. That's AFAIK about anything related to future offerings from Creative. Where it stacks among the rest on the list? I have absolutely no idea.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: VanillaH

Originally posted by: 1UP
That was indeed a great post, thanks, too.

All that's left is to ask your thoughts where (you speculate) the Audigy 4 pro would come on this list?

it is highly unlikely creative would make a card focused on quality playback as thats not the market segment they are trying to appeal to. besides, they dont need to as they own EMU for that.

I wouldn't mind a sound card with the playback quality of an EMU combined with the gaming power + features of the Audigy series.

 

[NEVERwinter]

Maybe Terratec Aureon Space, or Aureon Universe... or Audiotrak Prodigy.
Truly, I like those cards with VIA Envy24HT, But I don't know which one is better.... please., help!

 

[Googer]

At this point in time, you cannot beat M-Audio best bang for the buck. If you are getting a new mother board look for nVIDIA soundstorm.

 

[Googer]

Originally posted by: morme
I am looking for a good sound card who's primary purpose is to output to the HiFi.

Not interested in Home Theatre (MidFi) use at all
I just listen to an old (but good) system consisting of
Rogers LS 3/5A speakers on stands
Hafler DH101 Preamp
Hafler DH220 power amp
powered 8" subwoofer

I am amazed at how different the same file sounds in different DVD players (that can play mp3), but the on-board sound in the Shuttle sounds worst of all (output cabled to pre amp in)

all my cd's are ripped, and I either burn 150 song compilations on a cd and play in the dvd player, or listen to playlists from the computer. I should try to see if the dvd player will play a dvd rom with a thousand tracks on it. Some peoples music collection.

mp3 files are lame standard

The only card I have seen discussed is the Chaintec AV-710. Any others, if 5.1 etc is not an issue?

thanks

Have you considerd getting an external decoder box and using spdif? Klipsch made one for about $100 and was said to have decent quality.

 

[NEVERwinter]

Eh? I thought Envy24HT is better than Soundstorm? especially in freq. response, ASIO support and other features like configurable output, etc.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Originally posted by: Algere
"The Prodigy has superior drivers"
I don't find the simplicity of the Revolution's driver control panel lacking nor unstable and if your basing the superiority of the Prodigy's drivers based on if the reviewer said about the stability between the 2, yet again it may or may not be accurate since the article is somewhat outdated.

"The Prodigy does not suffer the huge framerate hits in games that the otherwise excelent M-Audio Revolution does."
That review was created before the Revolution 7.1's latest driver and/or Sensaura update and months before the Revolution 5.1 (which has lower CPU utilization than it's predecessor and/or Envy24 HT class DSPs which includes the Prodigy) was officially released. Regardless, both cards or all if the Revo 5.1 is considered, take a good framerate hit in games since neither of them have hardware acceleration like the Audigy class of cards.

from what I have read in comparrisons of the two (Prodigy/M-Audio) is that the Prodigy is a bit more refinend, and excelent card to listen to Jazz and Classical music for instance; where as they mention the M-Audio is a more "ballsy rock 'n roll fun style card".
Matter of YMMV (different ppl, different ears) but a starting reference nevertheless. Although it doesn't put into consideration the Revolution 5.1 which utilizes a different DAC from that of the Revolution 7.1.

"My games also seem to have a nicer sound to them as well for some reason, I noticed this immeidiatly. Much more of an immersive sound field for games than the M-Auido I also read in a review."
How did you come to the conclusion that it's more immersive than the Revolution if the only impression you got from the gaming performance of the M-Audio is from a written review? To make a true comparison between the 2 means you have to have both cards @ your disposal (A/B testing), not compare your real life personal experience with the Prodigy against a statement someone else made about the Revolution 7.1 within a review which can be considered possibly inaccurate by now due to driver and/or Sensaura updates that came after said posted review.

I own the M-Audio 7.1 Revo. I use the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 - Nuff said.

The Revo to my ears is inferior in all comparisons.

 

[Shadizzy]

im pretty happy with my audigy 4 pro, its the first creative product to finally support true 24-bit/96 kHz analog to digital and is also backed with asio support. It does what i require it to do and more. Backed up with the docking station that comes with it, I really feel its an improvement over the 2zs.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Zap Brannigan
I own the M-Audio 7.1 Revo. I use the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 - Nuff said.

The Revo to my ears is inferior in all comparisons.

If you say so...

Didn't sound like you owned the Revo 7.1 in your previous posts. More like something regurgitated from that source you posted if you ask me.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: NEVERwinter
Eh? I thought Envy24HT is better than Soundstorm? especially in freq. response, ASIO support and other features like configurable output, etc.

Envy24 HT is better overall than Soundstorm from a SQ POV. I'd say the only thing that comes to mind right now that Soundstorm has over Envy24 HT is Dolby Encode & hardware acceleration.

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: Shadizzy
im pretty happy with my audigy 4 pro, its the first creative product to finally support true 24-bit/96 kHz analog to digital and is also backed with asio support. It does what i require it to do and more. Backed up with the docking station that comes with it, I really feel its an improvement over the 2zs.

At a pricepoint of >$200

If the Audigy 4 Pro is a half step between the Audigy 2 ZS & the rumored "Zenith". Can't wait to see (not literally) what new features Creative's next card will have.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Originally posted by: Algere

Originally posted by: Zap Brannigan
I own the M-Audio 7.1 Revo. I use the Audiotrak Prodigy 7.1 - Nuff said.

The Revo to my ears is inferior in all comparisons.

If you say so...

Didn't sound like you owned the Revo 7.1 in your previous posts. More like something regurgitated from that source you posted if you ask me.

Last we posted together I did not own one. Curiosity then grabbed me and I felt compelled to buy one (M-Audio-Revo 7.1) and find out for myself.

Again I do not claim to be the ifnal authority on what sounds better to YOUR or anyone elses ears. If to you the M-Audio is far superior to the Prodigy then I think thats great that you own the M-Audio. Clearly the right choice for you; and when it comes to sound thats all it boils down to in the end.

I don't like any of the Logitech speakers I have heard. Does this mean no one should enjoy them? Not at all!

Don't get me wrong; I would use my M-Audio 7.1 Revo over any Creative offering. I'm not saying that the M-Audio is a bad card; I'm saying to my ears the Prodigy sounds better. To my ears what I have read in posted reviews is true.

 

[Algere]

Again I do not claim to be the ifnal authority on what sounds better to YOUR or anyone elses ears.

Neither have I, hence why I said in my previous post,

"Matter of YMMV (different ppl, different ears) but a starting reference nevertheless."

If to you the M-Audio is far superior to the Prodigy then I think thats great that you own the M-Audio.

Can't say one is better than the other. Never heard the Prodigy nor have I slammed either sound cards (when pitted against each other) for their features/performance to my knowledge.

I don't like any of the Logitech speakers I have heard. Does this mean no one should enjoy them? Not at all!

The keyword there is heard. The difference is that you heard Logitech speakers prior to passing judgement on them which I can respect. I doubt that was the case with the Revo 7.1 @ the time of your initial posts.

 

[Zap Brannigan]

Indeed. It is true that I passed judgement on the Revo before hearing it with my own ears and that is a foolish thing to do.

My main qualm with the Revo after listening to it is that to my ears it seems to over exagerate bass instruments. Also while the mid-range is full I find it blossoms out a bit too much for my tastes. I prefer a more neutral sounding card that lets the recordings come out as they were meant to. On that note however I am not searching for the most neutral of all sounding cards that can come off as "flat".

For my uses and ears the Prodigy is so good that I have ended my search for another sound card. I understand that EMU offers some great sounding cards and would like to hear them but at the same time I won't be buying one any time soon. I consider myself somewhat of an audiophile and at the least a stickler for good sound. I am very picky in what CD's I buy as my PC sound setup immedietly lets me know a poorly produced album when I hear one.

My sound card is also paired with a pair of Cambirdge Soundworks MC-300's which sound superb. I matched them with my CS Megaworks THX 550 5.1 setup and simply interchanged the two front sats. Expensive for my budget but worth every penny.

 

[konakona]

If the Audigy 4 Pro is a half step between the Audigy 2 ZS & the rumored "Zenith". Can't wait to see (not literally) what new features Creative's next card will have.

lets hope zenith is a true cure-all that would finally put an end to this divide between computer based audiophiles and gamers

 

[Algere]

Originally posted by: VanillaH

If the Audigy 4 Pro is a half step between the Audigy 2 ZS & the rumored "Zenith". Can't wait to see (not literally) what new features Creative's next card will have.

lets hope zenith is a true cure-all that would finally put an end to this divide between computer based audiophiles and gamers

You & me both