High Deductible Health Plans, HSA, Temp Med, and Medical packages

[steppinthrax]

So here goes, open enrollment is coming up and frankly I'm getting sick and tired for my 220 per pay period for my HDHP with HSA. It's pretty much shit insurance because it requires an 8K deductible to really do anything but still provides yearly physical visits etc...

However, some people I talk to in the insurance business say that this health care plan is awesome. They tout that if I properly contribute into the HSA (up to $6900 per year) that this 440 per month in premium costs is really 350 or so. I'm not understanding how it is.

Since Trump has removed the individual mandate, I'm looking at doing a Temporary Medical Plan which covers me in 3 month increments. Every 3 months I would reapply. It comes to only around 100 - 200 a month. So in total I would be saving thousands each year in medical premiums. The Temp Plan is much cheaper because it dosen't have to conform to ACA rules, so no maternity no pre-existing, no vaccination, no mental health etc... I get Vaccinations free from my work etc....

If I get sick to a point where I need med insurance I would simply use my employer as a fall back. I would lose coverage and use that to move in the middle of a plan year.

These insurance people keep telling me to put into my HSA and I can use my HSA as an IRA. In all honestly I have very little medical costs each year. The highest costs I've had was braces for my daughter where my dentist wanted 5K, I gave him my middle finger and I got invisiliners from Mexico for $1,500.

Is there some way to take out from the HSA w/o it being medical? Is there some "legal" way to pull from the HSA. Because that would be wonderful?

Someone explain this HSA tax-credit hack to me?

 

[Tweak155]

You can withdraw from your HSA at the age of 65 without penalty. If you use it for medical related reasons, it is also without tax, but otherwise it gets taxed as income at that point (but without the penalty).

If you withdraw before age 65, you get a penalty AND income tax.

 

[steppinthrax]

You can withdraw from your HSA at the age of 65 without penalty. If you use it for medical related reasons, it is also without tax, but otherwise it gets taxed as income at that point (but without the penalty).

If you withdraw before age 65, you get a penalty AND income tax.

I read that, but I don't give a shit about that. that's another 30 years down the road and quite frankly a lot of things (both political and personal) can happen between that time and now....

 

[steppinthrax]

-

 

[Tweak155]

I read that, but I don't give a shit about that. that's another 30 years down the road and quite frankly a lot of things (both political and personal) can happen between that time and now....

Ok? Well the withdraw age for IRA is 59.5 so this is likely what they're referring to it being "like an IRA".

 

[steppinthrax]

You can withdraw from your HSA at the age of 65 without penalty. If you use it for medical related reasons, it is also without tax, but otherwise it gets taxed as income at that point (but without the penalty).

If you withdraw before age 65, you get a penalty AND income tax.

I just plugged numbers into a tax savings calculator.

http://www.hsacenter.com/how-does-an-hsa-work/hsa-calculators/hsa-future-value-calculator/

I put in that I'm putting in 7K a year (i'm not sure if it's calculating increases) and that I have 0 expenses per year (of course not). I do a span of 30 years. Anyway it's showing a costs tax savings of around 58K when I'm 65.

Is there something I'm missing here?

 

[Tweak155]

I just plugged numbers into a tax savings calculator.

http://www.hsacenter.com/how-does-an-hsa-work/hsa-calculators/hsa-future-value-calculator/

I put in that I'm putting in 7K a year (i'm not sure if it's calculating increases) and that I have 0 expenses per year (of course not). I do a span of 30 years. Anyway it's showing a costs tax savings of around 58K when I'm 65.

Is there something I'm missing here?

Likely what they assumed is that your HSA allows for investment options, which is not always the case.

My HSA allows investing once you reach a minimum balance. If you notced the "Earnings on HSA" line, it shows me $278k for your same numbers. So yeah, it's $58k saved in tax plus the $278k in earnings. Of course they are assuming you use the funds entirely on medical expenses.

 

[deadlyapp]

If you're looking for short term savings and not looking long term (eg retirement) then yes, the HSA isn't that worthwhile to you. You can't take money out of it without penalties and the tax savings are fairly negligible unless it's preventing you from moving to another tax bracket. If you're looking long term, and your HSA has investments tied to it (above and beyond the small APR the accounts usually generate), then an HSA can be a great retirement vehicle outside of your standard 401k / IRA / etc, and additionally can be withdrawn from with zero tax for qualified medical expenses (which can cover far more than you might realize sometimes).

Personally, I don't have my other vehicles maxed out yet, so I'm not contributing a significant amount to my HSA each year, just enough to cover most of my general medical expenses (eg contact lenses, glasses, etc) with a little left over that I invest through the HSA. If I have more expenses in a year than I regularly contribute, I just drop another chunk of money into the HSA (you can pay into it at-will) which will give me some additional tax benefit when I file taxes next year.

 

[steppinthrax]

If you're looking for short term savings and not looking long term (eg retirement) then yes, the HSA isn't that worthwhile to you. You can't take money out of it without penalties and the tax savings are fairly negligible unless it's preventing you from moving to another tax bracket. If you're looking long term, and your HSA has investments tied to it (above and beyond the small APR the accounts usually generate), then an HSA can be a great retirement vehicle outside of your standard 401k / IRA / etc, and additionally can be withdrawn from with zero tax for qualified medical expenses (which can cover far more than you might realize sometimes).

Personally, I don't have my other vehicles maxed out yet, so I'm not contributing a significant amount to my HSA each year, just enough to cover most of my general medical expenses (eg contact lenses, glasses, etc) with a little left over that I invest through the HSA. If I have more expenses in a year than I regularly contribute, I just drop another chunk of money into the HSA (you can pay into it at-will) which will give me some additional tax benefit when I file taxes next year.

The issue I have for using HSA as an investment vehicle is that like most invementsments it's projected, there's no guarantee for that. Of course this is true with investments period. The HSAs are tied into the politics of this country and can change. What would happen if Obamacare gets a complete overall, what would happen to all these HSA accounts. Then you will start seeing healthplans w/o HSA, the only reason why the HSA really exists is because the health insurance was so expensive that they included an HSA to try to "make it better".

Then you HSA money is bitchlocked into an account that you are no longer contributing to since the HSA healthcare plans are not common anymore.

 

[paperfist]

I thought HSA’s took your money at the end of the year if you didn’t use it?

 

[highland145]

I thought HSA’s took your money at the end of the year if you didn’t use it?

fsa

 

[deadlyapp]

I thought HSA’s took your money at the end of the year if you didn’t use it?

That's an FSA. Easy way to remember is HDHP = HSA, LDHP = FSA.

Anyways, HSA existed long before Obamacare as far as I can recall and if they killed off HSA at some point in the future you'd just roll it into another retirement account and likely pay some penalties, but that's no different than any other investment vehicle. Either way I'm in no way worse off by contributing to one vs not contributing.

 

[steppinthrax]

I thought HSA’s took your money at the end of the year if you didn’t use it?

That was a misconception that I also had regarding HSA, the person who responded to you indicated FSA, I now remember FSA. I now remember working for a company and they called the FSA and how you "use it or lose it". I got the two confused.

I expected HSA, you don't lose it. But also, if you quit working for a company and move to another company that is using a different HSA, how do you move money, I guess you can, not sure.

 

[deadlyapp]

That was a misconception that I also had regarding HSA, the person who responded to you indicated FSA, I now remember FSA. I now remember working for a company and they called the FSA and how you "use it or lose it". I got the two confused.

I expected HSA, you don't lose it. But also, if you quit working for a company and move to another company that is using a different HSA, how do you move money, I guess you can, not sure.

Provided you stay in an HDHP, you can either keep the same HSA you had before, or you can roll it over to the new HSA. If you keep the old, you can't contribute to it but you can still withdraw. You might find that they charge a monthly "service fee" if you aren't actively contributing - I found that out with my HSA through benefitwallet.

Only painful thing I could see is if you switch jobs often and you end up with a variety of different HSA accounts because you don't want to roll them over. Even if you go to a low deductible plan in the future though, you can use the HSA, just can't contribute to it.

The people who really game the HSA are those who contribute fully to it and never withdraw from it - eg they pay their medical bill out of pocket post tax and save the receipts. At some point in the future, if you need some emergency funds, you cash in those receipts for money out of your HSA - tax free.

 

[paperfist]

That was a misconception that I also had regarding HSA, the person who responded to you indicated FSA, I now remember FSA. I now remember working for a company and they called the FSA and how you "use it or lose it". I got the two confused.

I expected HSA, you don't lose it. But also, if you quit working for a company and move to another company that is using a different HSA, how do you move money, I guess you can, not sure.

I’m self employed and it was a few years ago that I asked my accountant on which to setup and I could of sworn they said HSA. So I called around looking for one and was told that if you didn’t use it you loose it. So I guess I understood wrong or did get it confused with FSA.

 

[highland145]

I’m self employed and it was a few years ago that I asked my accountant on which to setup and I could of sworn they said HSA. So I called around looking for one and was told that if you didn’t use it you loose it. So I guess I understood wrong or did get it confused with FSA.

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ce-as-a-of-gross.2555770/page-2#post-39633335

 

[steppinthrax]

Provided you stay in an HDHP, you can either keep the same HSA you had before, or you can roll it over to the new HSA. If you keep the old, you can't contribute to it but you can still withdraw. You might find that they charge a monthly "service fee" if you aren't actively contributing - I found that out with my HSA through benefitwallet.

Only painful thing I could see is if you switch jobs often and you end up with a variety of different HSA accounts because you don't want to roll them over. Even if you go to a low deductible plan in the future though, you can use the HSA, just can't contribute to it.

The people who really game the HSA are those who contribute fully to it and never withdraw from it - eg they pay their medical bill out of pocket post tax and save the receipts. At some point in the future, if you need some emergency funds, you cash in those receipts for money out of your HSA - tax free.

How long do they have to collect. You are telling me that you could use some 30 yo receipt?

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Tapatalk

 

[deadlyapp]

How long do they have to collect. You are telling me that you could use some 30 yo receipt?

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Tapatalk

Yep. Not that I've tried, but that's what I've heard.

 

[sactoking]

If I get sick to a point where I need med insurance I would simply use my employer as a fall back. I would lose coverage and use that to move in the middle of a plan year.

This part of your plan won't work. If you voluntarily lose coverage through failure to pay premium or through forfeiture you are not eligible for a special enrollment.

 

[paperfist]

http://www.portvapes.co.uk/?id=Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps&exid=thread...ce-as-a-of-gross.2555770/page-2#post-39633335

That
Is
INSANE!

You have to put out $33,953.48 a year to actually get any coverage! You should be able to get nurse practitioner in-house for that price.

I'm gonna start going to church Sundays and hookup with this: https://www.chministries.org/

They had an interesting link on their site:https://www.healthcarebluebook.com/ that lets you shop around for actual medical costs. Not sure how legit it is.

 

[Schfifty Five]

So here goes, open enrollment is coming up and frankly I'm getting sick and tired for my 220 per pay period for my HDHP with HSA. It's pretty much shit insurance because it requires an 8K deductible to really do anything but still provides yearly physical visits etc...

However, some people I talk to in the insurance business say that this health care plan is awesome. They tout that if I properly contribute into the HSA (up to $6900 per year) that this 440 per month in premium costs is really 350 or so. I'm not understanding how it is.

Since Trump has removed the individual mandate, I'm looking at doing a Temporary Medical Plan which covers me in 3 month increments. Every 3 months I would reapply. It comes to only around 100 - 200 a month. So in total I would be saving thousands each year in medical premiums. The Temp Plan is much cheaper because it dosen't have to conform to ACA rules, so no maternity no pre-existing, no vaccination, no mental health etc... I get Vaccinations free from my work etc....

If I get sick to a point where I need med insurance I would simply use my employer as a fall back. I would lose coverage and use that to move in the middle of a plan year.

These insurance people keep telling me to put into my HSA and I can use my HSA as an IRA. In all honestly I have very little medical costs each year. The highest costs I've had was braces for my daughter where my dentist wanted 5K, I gave him my middle finger and I got invisiliners from Mexico for $1,500.

Is there some way to take out from the HSA w/o it being medical? Is there some "legal" way to pull from the HSA. Because that would be wonderful?

Someone explain this HSA tax-credit hack to me?

Maybe they are saying that since you contribute to HSA, your taxable income goes down, thus saving you on some taxes. So $440->$350 when taking into account tax savings. Maybe, I dunno, just a thought.

 

[Elfear]

I'm a firm believer in HSAs although that's partly due to having a good HDHP plan ($3k deductible per individual, $5k per family, and $10k max out of pocket). There used to be a very handy health plan comparison that you could put different scenarios into and see which plan was the least out of pocket cost to the individual (e.g. for 2019 what if there were 2 broken arms, a CAT scan, physical therapy, 3 prescriptions and a 5 day hospital stay). About every scenario I could come up with it was cheaper to go with the HDHP (using annual HSA contributions) than for a traditional plan.

On the HSA side, as others have mentioned, they are a great investment vehicle if you have that option. I pay most of my medical expenses out of pocket without touching the HSA. If for some reason I need a quick cash infusion, I keep my receipts so I don't pay any penalty fees. Later in life when healthcare costs shoot up due to aging, I can switch to a traditional plan or Medicare and use my substantial HSA to pay any out of pocket medical expenses. All with tax-free principal and earnings.

 

[steppinthrax]

This part of your plan won't work. If you voluntarily lose coverage through failure to pay premium or through forfeiture you are not eligible for a special enrollment.

Based on this.

https://www.healthcare.gov/coverage-outside-open-enrollment/special-enrollment-period/

On the bottom

"Your individual or group health plan coverage year is ending in the middle of the calendar year and you choose not to renew it."

So based on this that should work.

Otherwise I have rental property. I just would use that "I moved"

There's always a way around everything. I'm creative at finding ways.

Sent from my LG-Q710AL using Tapatalk

 

[steppinthrax]

I'm a firm believer in HSAs although that's partly due to having a good HDHP plan ($3k deductible per individual, $5k per family, and $10k max out of pocket). There used to be a very handy health plan comparison that you could put different scenarios into and see which plan was the least out of pocket cost to the individual (e.g. for 2019 what if there were 2 broken arms, a CAT scan, physical therapy, 3 prescriptions and a 5 day hospital stay). About every scenario I could come up with it was cheaper to go with the HDHP (using annual HSA contributions) than for a traditional plan.

On the HSA side, as others have mentioned, they are a great investment vehicle if you have that option. I pay most of my medical expenses out of pocket without touching the HSA. If for some reason I need a quick cash infusion, I keep my receipts so I don't pay any penalty fees. Later in life when healthcare costs shoot up due to aging, I can switch to a traditional plan or Medicare and use my substantial HSA to pay any out of pocket medical expenses. All with tax-free principal and earnings.

You sound like you are willing to pay for insurance for the peace of mind. Regardless if the statistics for those events are low.

You are why insurance companies are rich as fuck.

Before I leave my insurance plan I'm going to do everything I can under them to rape the fuck out (out of spite). Before I move elsewhere.

 

[Elfear]

You sound like you are willing to pay for insurance for the peace of mind. Regardless if the statistics for those events are low.

You are why insurance companies are rich as ***.

Before I leave my insurance plan I'm going to do everything I can under them to rape the *** out (out of spite). Before I move elsewhere.

Not following you here. Our HDHP plan is actually on the lower end of plans offered by my employer. If you're referring to the plan comparison tool with the different scenarios, I must not have explained it very well. Basically you could put your expected, worst-case, or optimal medical bills in for the coming year and figure out which plan would cost you the least. I was doing the opposite of what every insurance company wants which is to go for the highest cost plan for the peace of mind.