High quality 120mm fans with Blue LED?

[daw123]

You guys may find this an interesting article, if you want to learn about fan pressures and velocities:
http://www.esmagazine.com/Arti...nVCM100000f932a8c0____

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: aigomorla
were talking about yates here?

are you kidding me?

Yates are OEM NEXUS fans.. meaning they make fans for NEXUS

NEXUS is one of the quiestest raited fans on the planet dude.

Also there is no fan that does 90CFM @ 19dB unless we use CRAPPX err i mean SilenX's dB raiting.

Are you aware how quiet 19dB is?

Originally posted by: PUN

35.5dba is the actual noise level with ambient noise.
I believe all reviews rate their noise level in addition to ambient noise.

Avg ambient noise used for any fan reviews are 18. so 35.5dba for low lvl V8 is right on.

ummm... u have no idea how wrong you are.

OP the BEST LED FAN, is the Zalman F3 series. Better then coolermaster, better then YATE.

It has more STATIC and is quieter downvolted, and pushes a lot of air. And can be used in the horizontal possition without it dying in 4-5months.

Only fan better is a SFLEX but not by much, and the SFLEX does not come iin LEDs

http://www.pccasegear.com/inde..._info&products_id=6682

its cheaper elsewhere but im showing u the fan.

I don't know how botched the dba rating is by these manufacturers but I can give you noise relative to one another.

Eheim 1250 runs little louder than these CM fans. Yates, Adda, panaflo fans are about loud as when my dvdrw starts spinning before copying.

I guess we'll all wait for OP to report back on his findings.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: theAnimal

Originally posted by: The111

Originally posted by: theAnimalHe's talking about static pressure, which is the ability of a fan to move air when there is an obstacle such as a grill or heatsink in the way.

That's not what static pressure is, and what you describe doesn't really make sense anyway. A fan pushes air from point A to point B. A grill in between those points is going to slow the air down no matter what fan made the original push. No fan imparts magical "grill avoidance abilities" to the air that it pushes.

The fact remains that some fans are better at dealing with obstacles to airflow. What is the correct term for this? I've always seen it defined as static pressure.

Once it leaves the fan, moving air is just moving air. It has mass and velocity.

The only thing that will make one airflow pass an obstacle more efficiently than another airflow is velocity, which is of course directly proportional to airflow (commonly measured in our fan specs as cfm).

Put simply, fast air will deal with an obstacle better than slow air. It's not rocket science (although actually it is the fundamentals of rocket science). It's why a 100mph gust will knock a tree over, while a 30mph gust just makes the leaves fall off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_pressure

Static pressure decreases as airflow increases. However, if you treat total pressure as zero, then static pressure actually increases (in the negative direction) as airflow increases. So when you see a fan rated as "high static pressure" all the means is high velocity, which means high airflow or high cfm. So while it is true that "high static pressure" (in these terms) will help deal with "obstacles" (a grill or cooling block or radiator), it's not really the static pressure that's helping the air move through the obstacle, it's the speed of the flow. In other words, CFM is all that matters.

If somebody says, "fan A has good cfm but poor static pressure, while fan B has poor cfm but better static pressure," that makes no sense, really... unless you are considering flow variance within the cross-section, which is a whole other issue I hadn't considered, and I don't think most fan reviewers/raters are either... I think it's assumed to be a uniform cross section, in which case cfm and static pressure will always be correlated.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: LOUISSSSS
yes you're right, that is called static pressure and yes, there IS a difference between fans that provide good CFM and/or good static pressure. yes, some fans do better at pushing or pulling air through a heatsink/radiator or something similar.

Please see my reply above. Where you say and/or, I see only and. Unless the current crop of 120mm fans have widely varying cross-sectional flow properties, cfm and static pressure should always be closely correlated. You won't get one without the other. Please show or explain otherwise, if you can.

 

[daw123]

Originally posted by: The111

Originally posted by: theAnimal

Originally posted by: The111

Originally posted by: theAnimalHe's talking about static pressure, which is the ability of a fan to move air when there is an obstacle such as a grill or heatsink in the way.

That's not what static pressure is, and what you describe doesn't really make sense anyway. A fan pushes air from point A to point B. A grill in between those points is going to slow the air down no matter what fan made the original push. No fan imparts magical "grill avoidance abilities" to the air that it pushes.

The fact remains that some fans are better at dealing with obstacles to airflow. What is the correct term for this? I've always seen it defined as static pressure.

Once it leaves the fan, moving air is just moving air. It has mass and velocity.

The only thing that will make one airflow pass an obstacle more efficiently than another airflow is velocity, which is of course directly proportional to airflow (commonly measured in our fan specs as cfm).

Put simply, fast air will deal with an obstacle better than slow air. It's not rocket science (although actually it is the fundamentals of rocket science). It's why a 100mph gust will knock a tree over, while a 30mph gust just makes the leaves fall off.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_pressure

Static pressure decreases as airflow increases. However, if you treat total pressure as zero, then static pressure actually increases (in the negative direction) as airflow increases. So when you see a fan rated as "high static pressure" all the means is high velocity, which means high airflow or high cfm. So while it is true that "high static pressure" (in these terms) will help deal with "obstacles" (a grill or cooling block or radiator), it's not really the static pressure that's helping the air move through the obstacle, it's the speed of the flow. In other words, CFM is all that matters.

If somebody says, "fan A has good cfm but poor static pressure, while fan B has poor cfm but better static pressure," that makes no sense, really... unless you are considering flow variance within the cross-section, which is a whole other issue I hadn't considered, and I don't think most fan reviewers/raters are either... I think it's assumed to be a uniform cross section, in which case cfm and static pressure will always be correlated.

So from the equation listed on Wikipedia, the static pressure for a fluid or gas (air has a mass density of 1.29kg/cu. m) is:

P0 = P + (0.5 * p * v^2)

Or re-arranged:

P = P0 - (0.5 * p * v^2) = P0 - (0.645 * v^2)

where:
P is static pressure
p is the mass density of the fluid,
v is the flow velocity, and
P0 is total pressure which is constant along any streamline.

So if the total pressure is a constant then simply:

Static pressure is inversely proportional to the flow velocity squared

Hence, if the static pressure increases, then the flow velocity (or air speed) decreases.

If I've got the maths and interpretation correct, then it backs up what The111
posted previously.

P.S. It's difficult posting formulae

 

[zagood]

Construction of a fan makes a big difference in static pressure, yes. You can move the same volume of air differently. I don't have any scientific terms to throw at you, I just know that a spray nozzle open vs. a spray nozzle closed on a garden hose can create different amounts of pressure with the same volume.

Some stats from fans with similar CFM:

Delta EFB1212LE 120x38mm: 75.93 CFM, 4.00 mm H²O
Nanoxia FX Series FX12?2000 120x25mm: 79.14 CFM, 2.97333mm-H2O

edit: I think the problem here is you're relating velocity to pressure instead of volume to pressure.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: zagood
Construction of a fan makes a big difference in static pressure, yes. You can move the same volume of air differently. I don't have any scientific terms to throw at you, I just know that a spray nozzle open vs. a spray nozzle closed on a garden hose can create different amounts of pressure with the same volume.

Some stats from fans with similar CFM:

Delta EFB1212LE 120x38mm: 75.93 CFM, 4.00 mm H²O
Nanoxia FX Series FX12?2000 120x25mm: 79.14 CFM, 2.97333mm-H2O

There's a lot of truth to what you're saying. But I don't think that the different fan constructions out there have very radical differences in their flow profile (certainly not as radical as the garden hose example, which I know you weren't implying). As far as the specs above, I'll take them with as much seriousness as I take the noise specs we've spent the past few pages debating. ;-) Another thing worth mentioning is that those two fans are different dimensions (thickness)... 25mm vs 38mm which will affect the flow properties a lot more than is possible within two fans of the same thickness.

Originally posted by: zagood
edit: I think the problem here is you're relating velocity to pressure instead of volume to pressure.

There's no problem with relating velocity to pressure since they are directly related at any point in an airstream. Volume flow takes the whole cross section into account but still is related to the velocity and, yes, thus the pressure.

All in all if I have a fan pushing 90cfm at the front of my HSF, and another pulling 90cfm at the rear of my HSF, I am going to neglect the resistance of the HSF fins and say that I care more about the flow volume than the static pressure (which is really a velocity measurement). The more air I can move by those fins, the more heat I can remove from my CPU.

 

[PUN]

any update?

I was reading some reviews on cosmos 1000 case. Almost 100% reviewers of 750+ are saying that the fan is inaudible. So I know my hearing is not impaired nor my judgement is not skewed. I truly believe that these CM fans are 19dba @1800rpm.

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: PUN
any update?

I was reading some reviews on cosmos 1000 case. Almost 100% reviewers of 750+ are saying that the fan is inaudible. So I know my hearing is not impaired nor my judgement is not skewed. I truly believe that these CM fans are 19dba @1800rpm.

Does that case (which has been around for a while) have the same fans we're referring to (which I thought just came out)?

I think my fans may be waiting for me at home but it will be a little while before I'm able to try them out and post my opinions... busy schedule.

 

[PUN]

the case fans are rated at 44cfm @ 18-19dba. So I was just comparing the noise level.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

lol i've stopped buying fans based on their "rated on the box" specs for many years. didn't u know they all rate them differently? buy based on user opinions

 

[The111]

Well my Yate Loon and CM fans came in last night, but I didn't really have much time to try them out. And the way I was envisioning testing them didn't work, which I guess should have been obvious. I had thought I could just hook them up to a spare PSU, plug it into the wall, and flip it on. Wrong, of course. I guess the mobo connection usually somehow tells the PSU when to power the rails. Thing is, I don't want to hook these up to my rig right now because it has 7 other fans all over it that make quite a bit of noise, and I just want to power these 3 fans one by one in an otherwise quiet environment to compare. How can I do that?

 

[zagood]

Take a paper clip, staple, wire, or anything conductive and jump the green wire with a black one on the PSU ATX connector.

 

[The111]

Thanks zagood!

 

[Fullmetal Chocobo]

I learned the hard way with assistance from GalvanizedYankee, and I will never again buy fans with blue LED or UV fans. I stick with Delta (DTBs are awesome) or Sanyo Denki fans only now. The Cooler Master LED fans good fans for the LED types, but I'd still go with dependability over pretty.

 

[The111]

What was the hard way?

Why can't you have dependable and pretty?

 

[zagood]

I remember these discussions a few years ago...GY was one of the reasons I started really exploring air cooling. Miss that guy.

IIRC, what it came down to is that, In general, fans with translucent instead of opaque frames resonate more. I'm interested in the Noiseblockers made of Makrolon, but can't drop that much cash just to test a new fan.

I'll reiterate - these CM LED fans are decent fans, just not as good as OP claims. I'd rank them about the same as the Antec Tri-Cools (non-LED) when they're at the same RPM. Nothing special, but not horrible at around 7v. Better than the Antec LED fans though.

-z

 

[The111]

Originally posted by: zagood
IIRC, what it came down to is that, In general, fans with translucent instead of opaque frames resonate more. I'm interested in the Noiseblockers made of Makrolon, but can't drop that much cash just to test a new fan.

Makes perfect sense and I can't believe I didn't think of that.

In the end though, noise is an aesthetic concern as much as "pretty blue glow." So if you can get the same cooling performance from a noisy glowing fan, vs a quiet flat black fan... in the end the choice is yours... audible bling (silence) or visual bling (LED)? ;-)

 

[zagood]

Pimp my ears.

 

[The111]

Well, I am gonna do some more conclusive unscientific testing later, but based on a quick 5 minute test, the CM is quieter than both the Medium and High Yate Loons. It seems to move slightly less air than the YL High (but still much more than the medium), but since it is quieter than even the medium, it is the obvious winner. I need to pull an Antec Tri-Cool out of my case and add that to the comparison too.

The Yate Loon fans are pretty loud, to be honest, they have this buzz/whine that is crazy.

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: The111
Well, I am gonna do some more conclusive unscientific testing later, but based on a quick 5 minute test, the CM is quieter than both the Medium and High Yate Loons. It seems to move slightly less air than the YL High (but still much more than the medium), but since it is quieter than even the medium, it is the obvious winner. I need to pull an Antec Tri-Cool out of my case and add that to the comparison too.

The Yate Loon fans are pretty loud, to be honest, they have this buzz/whine that is crazy.

Thanks...see I wasn't deaf after all.
I know what you mean by that buzzing noise of the yate. Yate, Adda, Delta, and Panaflo all make that noise. It's like the jet engine sound (but obviously quieter)

 

[zagood]

Glad you like them - that was the whole point of this thread, right? New LED fans? Cool.

When people recommend YL fans, 99% of the time they're talking about the low speed D12SL-12. The two you picked up (d12sh-12 and d12sm-12) don't have the best noise signature.

Old D12SM-12 review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page2.html

Now compare the CM fans to the Noctua fans that came with your heatsink. Also post temp results compared to the stock Antec fans.

PUN, since you've never used a fan controller, stop comparing fans that move more air - of course they're going to be louder.

 

[LOUISSSSS]

my low's that i got from ncix (red fins/black outer) has a buzzing noise, my high's that i got from JT do not have any buzzing noise at 5v or at 12v.

i hear that the low's from PTS has the same motor as the high's and does not have any buzzing.

 

[PUN]

Originally posted by: zagood
Glad you like them - that was the whole point of this thread, right? New LED fans? Cool.

When people recommend YL fans, 99% of the time they're talking about the low speed D12SL-12. The two you picked up (d12sh-12 and d12sm-12) don't have the best noise signature.

Old D12SM-12 review:
http://www.silentpcreview.com/article739-page2.html

Now compare the CM fans to the Noctua fans that came with your heatsink. Also post temp results compared to the stock Antec fans.

PUN, since you've never used a fan controller, stop comparing fans that move more air - of course they're going to be louder.

What I was trying to say was CM moves more air at less noise.
CM moves more air than YL m and it's also quieter.
D12SL is low noise but it doesn't move enough for my taste.

 

[zagood]

@pun - specifically the Adda, Delta, and Panaflo fans.