Hillary Clinton will increase taxes for the middle class

[jonks]

nm

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: JD50
I hope I misunderstood you and you aren't really this stupid. Are you really saying that people with kids are a bigger burden on society, and that they are less productive and that they contribute less to society than a single person? Wow, great, lets make it illegal to have kids, then we can all contribute more and be more productive, just like you.....:roll:

And please, give up the whole "OMG u have kidz ur tax brakes are so great!!?!?!?!". Those tax breaks don't come anywhere close to cost of having kids, so trust me, even without kids and paying higher taxes, you are pretty far ahead of us evul breeders.

Edit - I realized that I will probably have to spell this out for you. Yes, you, SSSnail pay more in taxes than Mail5398, who has 4 kids and gets some of HIS money back from the government to help with the financial burden of raising 4 children. Oh, but wait, some day, his 4 children will all be adults and more than likely they will also be paying taxes. Now, lets say they each only have 2 children. Now, there are 8 more tax payers.

Lets fast forward 40 years. So while you, SSSnail, paid more in taxes than Mail5398, he has contributed MUCH more to society (because apparently your only measure of how much someone contributes to society is how much they pay in taxes) because he has created 12 more tax payers (4 kids plus 8 grandkids) while you are sitting all alone in a state nursing home because there is no one to take care of you. Obviously, we could keep going and assume that his 8 grandkids will each have 2 kids (28 tax payers total), then they will have 2 kids each (60 tax payers total) etc.... compared to you, a single tax payer. What was that you were saying about someone contributing more to society?

So let's say I entertain your uber communistic but idiotic comments for a moment and retort with this. You're assuming that all his kids will turn out to be super shinny contributing members of society, wrong number one. Not only that, the inverse could also be true that they'll grow up and breed welfare sucking children, or become serial killers, but let's not go that far.

I'm not advocating not having children as you simpleton have suggested, why don't have them responsibly? You said it yourself, the cost of raising 4 children is greater, and you're right (I'm agreeing with you). But, who's fucking burden is it? Because you better be damn sure that while you're humping and pumping out kids, they ought not count on my fucking supports while you're raising your kids (let me kindly remind you that there are chances that they won't all grow up to be model citizens). While we're on the fucking subject, I never said I won't ever have kids; being a responsible citizen, I'll have them when I'm ready. Using your model of projection, my kids will pay more taxes than his kids. Here's your wrong number two.

Fast forward 40 years... I'm sorry, can I borrow your communistic crystal ball because mine doesn't seem to work.

I live in LA, and I see many prime examples of your "I have a lot of kids so they contribute to my society" from predominantly Hispanic families. Kids after kids after kids after kids while carrying kids while pushing kids... on welfare. There's your fucking contribution to society. Wrong number three.

Should I go on?

So you consider someone having kids to be placing a burden on society? Jesus, you are a fucking moron. All your productivity is owed to your parents deciding to keep your sorry ass rather than aborting you. We're importing illegal aliens because not enough people are having kids. Also, how the hell do you know you are more productive than he is?

Having kids responsibly won't, having kids while you can't fucking afford them tend to be the case. If you can't afford to have kids, quit fucking, very simple. Why the personal attacks? Is it because I hit a fucking nerve?

What do you suggest, have more kids that you can't afford to keep even with the illegals? Great logics I see. Speaking from the present, I pay more taxes than he does and that's factual. If you want to look at economic impact, while he spends money on diapers, children school supply, baby foods, strollers, etc... I spend more of my money on other sectors of the economy. Simply looking at those factors, I'd say yeah, I'm currently a more productive member of society.

Are you retarded? We are not talking about some welfare Mom with 10 kids. The OP is solidly middle class with 4 children, how is that being irresponsible? The OP pays taxes, you are NOT supporting him, nor are you supporting me and my 2 children, I pay plenty of taxes as well. Sorry, but a child raised in a solidly middle class family is much more likely to go on to be a productive member of society than he is to become a "welfare sucking child " or a "serial killer". I'm not sure how lower class citizens that can't afford children got involved in this, I was specifically talking about the OP.

And how the hell do you come to the conclusion that I am a communist because I advocate people keeping more of their own money to do with it what they see fit. That is just about as far from communism as you can get.

In short, You accused the OP of being a burden on society because he has 4 kids, you are an idiot.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: Jeff7

Originally posted by: Mail5398
She says tonight that we will go back to the tax structure under Bill Clinton. I am married with four kids and make $85,000 a year. I went back and looked at a 1999 1040 and compared it to a 2007 1040.


$6721 in federal taxes in 2007 and I get $4000 in child tax credit. I end up paying $2721.


$8411 in federal taxes in 1999 and I get $2000 in child tax credit. I end up paying $6411.

I used the 2007 standard deduction and individual deductions for both calculations.


$3690 means I can no longer go on vacation. Thanks Hillary for helping a RICH person like myself out.

$85,000? You're pretty darned well-off. My parents raised two kids on about $50K a year, and I don't feel that I suffered for it. You'll live.

$3690 for a vacation? Damn....that could buy another car, or a few really nice computers. Vacations need not be Disney-grade-expensive.

First of all, in many sections of the country 85k is NOT well off at all, that is solidly middle class. Second, you do realize that 50k whenever your parents raised you does not go nearly as far now as it did whenever that was? Actually, after reading your post, I get the feeling that your parents are probably still supporting you, or they were within the last couple of years. I also see that you live in PA, which has a lot of very cheap places to live.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: SSSnail

Originally posted by: Fern

Originally posted by: SSSnail
WTF are you talking about? She says that she'll just let your God's tax cut expire, nice spin.

Edit: Oh wait, you'd rather people like ME financing your vacation? Sure, hop on comrade.

WTF are YOU talking about?

By letting HIM keep the money HE'S earned, YOU are subsidizing HIS vacation?

ZOMG LOL! Karl Marx is that you?

Fern

Oh wait, I'll let him keep the money he's earned, while...

I'm paying for the infrastructure that afford his kids free public schooling, while
I'm paying for the public services that his family is no doubt using at some points, while
I'm paying for the roads that he's driving on to said services, while
I'm paying taxes which subsidize his tax credits and deductions while ...

That's right, because the exorbitant amount of taxes I'm paying for being a single high income earner is what I deserved. Go on your fucking vacation... (or as we say around here, eff you and eff your shit and eff the horse that you rode in on).

Your ilk wanted everything for free, where do I see this before? Hmm... Karl Marx you said?

Fuck, I didn't realize I'm arguing against Fern...

Edit: Oh, and both of the candidates said specifically that they'll let the tax cut expire on those that earn more than $250K a year. Quit with the knee jerks...

I was going to respond to this, but I see that Fern already owned you pretty good.

Edit - Just to add one thing, the OP is ALSO paying for all of that, unless you think that he pays absolutely no taxes. If that is the case I would love to hear his secret, seeing as I make a little more than him and I have two children. I would really love to hear how he gets out of paying property taxes, they are a bitch.

Hey, I'm also pretty sure that at some point in his life the OP was also single without any children, just like you...... But hey, maybe you'll put your money where your mouth is and not claim any deductions when you finally do decide to get married and have kids. Somehow I doubt that will happen.

 

[SSSnail]

Fact - I pay MUCH more taxes than OP
Fact - I'm less likely to depend on social services than OP
Fact - I don't cry about not being to go on vacation because I'm overextending myself raising four kids, as the OP has

Own me?

You honestly think that the taxes you paid at gas stations and sales tax is enough to uphold this infrastructure? You're kidding yourself. Granted a lot of tax dollars are being misused, but a lot of it are being used to keep this country going.

It's all about me, me, me, me, ME... as you and OP cried about.

Edit: I'm freaking DONE with all these shenanigans, I'm moving another country. You can stay here and pay as little taxes as you feel you're entitled to. Thank you Uncle Sam for giving me a $87,500 tax break. (See? Even away, I'm still paying taxes for you )

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
Fact - I pay MUCH more taxes than OP
Fact - I'm less likely to depend on social services than OP
Fact - I don't cry about not being to go on vacation because I'm overextending myself raising four kids, as the OP has

Own me?

You honestly think that the taxes you paid at gas stations and sales tax is enough to uphold this infrastructure? You're kidding yourself. Granted a lot of tax dollars are being misused, but a lot of it are being used to keep this country going.

It's all about me, me, me, me, ME... as you and OP cried about.

LOL, this coming from the person bitching about people with children paying less in taxes....:roll:

Yes, Fern completely destroyed your whole argument, maybe you should rebut his post point by point. You said yourself that you are going to have children someday, so you are NOT less likely to depend on social services. You also benefit from the OPs kids, my kids, and everyone else's kids going to good public schools, unless you think that a completely uneducated society would be a good thing.

And as I pointed out earlier, yes, you may pay more taxes RIGHT NOW than the OP currently does. But his 4 children will most likely grow up to be tax paying citizens, and their kids, and their kids, and their kids, etc....

If you are going to have kids, then what the fuck are you bitching about? You will pay less then, just like the OP paid more when he was single. See how that works?

 

[JD50]

BTW, how old are you SSSnail? I'm just curious as to how long you've actually been paying taxes.

 

[Specop 007]

Sweet. 50 years of big government overspending and it gets all laid on Bushs shoulders and I pick up the tab.

Thats awesome. Its like people have about a 4 year memory and then BAM, nothing exists before that.

*sigh*

 

[SSSnail]

You're completely missing the point, I didn't start a thread bitching about not being able to go on vacation. My arguments are based on what's happening RIGHT NOW, you understand the present right? Why do you project so much in your arguments? Do you have a problem with dealing with things in a current factual state?

As far as me "benefiting" from your kids? (keep it present please, as in right now) In the future you mean? They may grow up to be brilliant scientists that will find a cure for old age. They may save my life. Or, they may turn out to be dip shits sitting on an internet forums arguing over the merits of paying taxes. They may end up working for me. They may even hack away at you for not be able to provide them with a vacation they're entitled to... maybe. Hey, I thought while we're projecting... As some asshats with a stat sheet will show you, just because your kids are in school doesn't mean they'll be smart, or are learning, or will become anything.

I'm 32, been paying taxes since I was 18. I have earned more than enough credits with the SS administration to retire right now if this age thing isn't in the way.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Per Pupil Expenditure (Current Expenses Only): $6,280.00
(1999-2000)


EXPENDITURES (1999-2000)
Current Expense Expenditures
State ....................................................$5,351,955,239 - - 68.9%
Federal .................................................$ 597,006,562 - - - 7.6%
Local ....................................................$1,824,749,181 - - 23.5%

Total ....................................................$7,773,710,982


ESTIMATED AVERAGE TEACHERS' SALARIES

North Carolina Average ......................... $41,167
U. S. Average ....................................... $42,902
North Carolina's Rank ............................ 21

The projected needed capital expense was around $7k/classroom. Probably around 50k classrooms - I'll let you do the math

Enjoy your subsidy ... Please do not move to North Carolina

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: SSSnail
You're completely missing the point, I didn't start a thread bitching about not being able to go on vacation. My arguments are based on what's happening RIGHT NOW, you understand the present right? Why do you project so much in your arguments? Do you have a problem with dealing with things in a current factual state?

As far as me "benefiting" from your kids? (keep it present please, as in right now) In the future you mean? They may grow up to be brilliant scientists that will find a cure for old age. They may save my life. Or, they may turn out to be dip shits sitting on an internet forums arguing over the merits of paying taxes. They may end up working for me. They may even hack away at you for not be able to provide them with a vacation they're entitled to... maybe. Hey, I thought while we're projecting... As some asshats with a stat sheet will show you, just because your kids are in school doesn't mean they'll be smart, or are learning, or will become anything.

I'm 32, been paying taxes since I was 18. I have earned more than enough credits with the SS administration to retire right now if this age thing isn't in the way.

He was bitching about his taxes being raised, thats it. You're the one that called him a burden on society. You're that one that went off on a tangent about welfare kids. You're the one bitching about people getting nothing for free. You're the one bitching about people having children before they are ready and financially able. None of that has anything to do with the OP, or this thread. $4k is a lot of money to a middle class family, having that taken out of your annual budget sucks. I'm not sure how you can't understand why someone would be upset about getting roughly $4k taken away from them. Most middle class families do not have an extra $4k laying around.

And yes, I can see that the only thing that you are focused on is RIGHT NOW. Well, I'm focused on reality, and that includes much more than just RIGHT NOW, so of course I am going to bring that up.

Taxes should NOT be raised on the middle class, especially those with children. That is basically what this whole thread is about, and you seem to be in disagreement with that. So you think the middle class should be giving more of their money to the government, yet you run around calling everyone a communist. Nice.

If you do NOT think that taxes should be raised on the middle class (which is what the OP is bitching about), then what are you getting so worked up about, you, the OP, myself, and Fern are all in agreement....

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Per Pupil Expenditure (Current Expenses Only): $6,280.00
(1999-2000)


EXPENDITURES (1999-2000)
Current Expense Expenditures
State ....................................................$5,351,955,239 - - 68.9%
Federal .................................................$ 597,006,562 - - - 7.6%
Local ....................................................$1,824,749,181 - - 23.5%

Total ....................................................$7,773,710,982


ESTIMATED AVERAGE TEACHERS' SALARIES

North Carolina Average ......................... $41,167
U. S. Average ....................................... $42,902
North Carolina's Rank ............................ 21

The projected needed capital expense was around $7k/classroom. Probably around 50k classrooms - I'll let you do the math

Enjoy your subsidy ... Please do not move to North Carolina

The OP was talking about his FEDERAL INCOME taxes, not his local property taxes. As far as I know, most schools are paid for by property taxes. Maybe NC is different.

 

[SSSnail]

Originally posted by: JD50
Taxes should NOT be raised on the middle class, especially those with children. That is basically what this whole thread is about, and you seem to be in disagreement with that. So you think the middle class should be giving more of their money to the government, yet you run around calling everyone a communist. Nice.

If you do NOT think that taxes should be raised on the middle class (which is what the OP is bitching about), then what are you getting so worked up about, you, the OP, myself, and Fern are all in agreement....

Tell ya what, one final entry.

I understand that taxes shouldn't be raised on already strained families, but bitching about non existence threats to tax hike is idiotic. The candidates planned on letting the tax cut expire on those that makes more $250K, which clearly won't affect OP, you, or myself.

About the middle class thing, shit, I thought it's already dead. I'm not advocating that we should give more, I'm just saying that don't bitch when you're already paying less. Especially don't bitch because you potentially can't afford a luxury... *gasp*

Had the OP started a thread stating that because of the potential tax hike that would prevent him from buying diapers of feed his kids, I wouldn't have said anything.

We're all in agreement that we don't want to pay more taxes, but some do need to understand why we pay them.

 

[heyheybooboo]

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Per Pupil Expenditure (Current Expenses Only): $6,280.00
(1999-2000)


EXPENDITURES (1999-2000)
Current Expense Expenditures
State ....................................................$5,351,955,239 - - 68.9%
Federal .................................................$ 597,006,562 - - - 7.6%
Local ....................................................$1,824,749,181 - - 23.5%

Total ....................................................$7,773,710,982


ESTIMATED AVERAGE TEACHERS' SALARIES

North Carolina Average ......................... $41,167
U. S. Average ....................................... $42,902
North Carolina's Rank ............................ 21

The projected needed capital expense was around $7k/classroom. Probably around 50k classrooms - I'll let you do the math

Enjoy your subsidy ... Please do not move to North Carolina

The OP was talking about his FEDERAL INCOME taxes, not his local property taxes. As far as I know, most schools are paid for by property taxes. Maybe NC is different.

Reading is FUNdemental, JD. Maybe you should try it sometime ....

Originally posted by: Mail5398
I am married with four kids and make $85,000 a year ..... $6721 in federal taxes in 2007 and I get $4000 in child tax credit. I end up paying $2721 .....

I will not be able to go on vacation because I will have to work 52 weeks of the year. I pay lots of taxes besides federal income tax. Not counting federal income tax, I paid $19,512 in taxes last year not counting sales tax.

 

[Pabster]

The fact of the matter is, with the top 10% taking on 70%+ of the tax burden, the masses will always accept (and vote) for tax increases. Why? Because they aren't paying it.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo

Originally posted by: JD50

Originally posted by: heyheybooboo
Per Pupil Expenditure (Current Expenses Only): $6,280.00
(1999-2000)


EXPENDITURES (1999-2000)
Current Expense Expenditures
State ....................................................$5,351,955,239 - - 68.9%
Federal .................................................$ 597,006,562 - - - 7.6%
Local ....................................................$1,824,749,181 - - 23.5%

Total ....................................................$7,773,710,982


ESTIMATED AVERAGE TEACHERS' SALARIES

North Carolina Average ......................... $41,167
U. S. Average ....................................... $42,902
North Carolina's Rank ............................ 21

The projected needed capital expense was around $7k/classroom. Probably around 50k classrooms - I'll let you do the math

Enjoy your subsidy ... Please do not move to North Carolina

The OP was talking about his FEDERAL INCOME taxes, not his local property taxes. As far as I know, most schools are paid for by property taxes. Maybe NC is different.

Reading is FUNdemental, JD. Maybe you should try it sometime ....

Originally posted by: Mail5398
I am married with four kids and make $85,000 a year ..... $6721 in federal taxes in 2007 and I get $4000 in child tax credit. I end up paying $2721 .....

I will not be able to go on vacation because I will have to work 52 weeks of the year. I pay lots of taxes besides federal income tax. Not counting federal income tax, I paid $19,512 in taxes last year not counting sales tax.

Yes, thank you, I read that. He was complaining about Hillary raising FEDERAL INCOME taxes, as far as I know Hillary has not advocated raising local property taxes, which is the only reason that I could think of that you might be bringing education into this.

And I really think that you should be more concerned with the people not paying ANY taxes, as opposed to the middle class getting a small tax break because of their children. And if you are truly concerned about people being "subsidized" by others, then why aren't you advocating tax cuts for the rich?