Historian Howard Zinn Dies at 87

[Perknose]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/us/28zinn.html?hp

In 1981, while auditing a course at Pendle Hill, the Quaker retreat and learning center, I was given the honor of picking up Howard Zinn at the Philly airport by our prof.

He was a learned, gracious and brilliant man with a heart as big as they come, and he devoted his life to social justice.

I will miss him.

There are few left in this world of weasely moral and mental midgets and bloviating blowhards who could come close to combining his integrity with his erudition and his burning, life-long commitment to justice and truth.

Here's to you, Howard.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendle_Hill_Quaker_Center_for_Study_and_Contemplation

 

[RedChief]

No loss. He can enjoy his place in hell next to Mao, Stalin, Che, and Pol Pot.

 

[skyking]

bit of a repost there
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2045714

 

[SirStev0]

Fuck. RIP. Amazed I haven't heard about this yet.

 

[redbox]

Oh, how I wish I could have met this man.

Fair well, you will be missed.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Great great Man , Its a tear jerker for sure . I will miss him enormously. God speed Howard.

 

[ProfJohn]

Perk!!! You're alive... thought you and Harvey kicked the bucket or something.

As for Zinn.... guy had some crazy ideas, but I don't think he ever did any harm unlike Mao, Stalin etc al.

So RIP.

 

[nageov3t]

No loss. He can enjoy his place in hell next to Mao, Stalin, Che, and Pol Pot.

stay classy! :awe:

 

[First]

As for Zinn.... guy had some crazy ideas, but I don't think he ever did any harm unlike Mao, Stalin etc al.

rofl, o rly? You're going out on quite a limb there.

 

[ichy]

As for Zinn.... guy had some crazy ideas, but I don't think he ever did any harm unlike Mao, Stalin etc al.

Zinn was a naive fool. I certainly wouldn't compare him to Hitler, but if people like Zinn had risen to positions of power we'd be living under Hitler. Robert Heinlein's quote about pacifists comes to mind...

 

[Noobtastic]

No loss. He can enjoy his place in hell next to Mao, Stalin, Che, and Pol Pot.

Ditto.

I don't think there is a person more responsible for the corruption of the academics than Howard Zinn. He truly knows how to romanticize even the most ruthless of dictators.

 

[nick1985]

Guy was an idiot

 

[heyheybooboo]

I never met him but I have a good deal of respect for Zinn, his logic, and his special brand of agitation. I haven't always agreed, but that is what free expression entails, huh?

Over the years I became close friends with a principle in the Albany Movement, so, at the least I feel a kindred connection of sorts.

I don't really understand some of the snide comments here; surprisingly, I probably know more 'conservative' pacifists than lib'rul ones, but that may be a product of age (and how the country has changed over the last 50 years ...)

RIP, Howard ... You will be missed.





--

 

[surfsatwerk]

Anyone that goes out into the world and urges people to think about our government and the world around them deserves my respect. I was fortunate enough to hear him speak a few years ago.

 

[BoberFett]

Wow, what's with all the hate?

 

[PrinceofWands]

Wow, what's with all the hate?

Right wingers. Intelligence, morality, and truth make them uncomfortable.

 

[CitizenKain]

Look at them baby trolls.

 

[PJABBER]

Zinn was an interesting character and most of the stuff he wrote had an interesting twist. His A People's History is a seminal work of critical pedagogy being fully derived from critical theory (everything Craig234 writes comes from that school of thought; the Obamas are believers in this "revisionism" as well.) The "progressives" get a frisson from his work.

Though I am far from an expert in his work, I never got the impression he was a Marxist-Leninist, certainly he criticized the excesses of the Soviet regime. He really was much more of a utopian, admiring "purity" while often excusing some of the excesses and the nasty stuff of extreme regimes.

He did good work in the anti-segregation movement and was actively anti-war based on his own experiences in the military during WWII.

I am not surprised that he would lecture at Pendle Hill, an excellent retreat for contemplation in the Quaker tradition. I used to walk there often, a really nice place to think and take an occasional class. And a lot less expensive than almost next door Swarthmore College!

As an instructor at BU, Zinn always had huge classes and not just because he was an easy A (he was.) He offered a different view of the world and history and was entertaining.

The problem that I have with his thinking is that it is best as a counterpoint and not as some kind of dogma. Revisionism holds a place in considering the influences which might, or more likely not, apply, but it is not nearly adequate as a substitute. And too many who have studied him, coming themselves from little or no prior backgrounding or knowledge, got his version and only his version and thus accepted it as dogma.

Zimm influenced most, if not all, of the intellectual American Left, directly and indirectly, as did Chomsky and others. Many of the disconnects they have with reality come from adhering too closely to his, and others, re-interpretations.

 

[PrinceofWands]

Zinn was an interesting character and most of the stuff he wrote had an interesting twist. His A People's History is a seminal work of critical pedagogy being fully derived from critical theory (everything Craig234 writes comes from that school of thought; the Obamas are believers in this "revisionism" as well.) The "progressives" get a frisson from his work.

Though I am far from an expert in his work, I never got the impression he was a Marxist-Leninist, certainly he criticized the excesses of the Soviet regime. He really was much more of a utopian, admiring "purity" while often excusing some of the excesses and the nasty stuff of extreme regimes.

He did good work in the anti-segregation movement and was actively anti-war based on his own experiences in the military during WWII.

I am not surprised that he would lecture at Pendle Hill, an excellent retreat for contemplation in the Quaker tradition. I used to walk there often, a really nice place to think and take an occasional class. And a lot less expensive than almost next door Swarthmore College!

As an instructor at BU, Zinn always had huge classes and not just because he was an easy A (he was.) He offered a different view of the world and history and was entertaining.

The problem that I have with his thinking is that it is best as a counterpoint and not as some kind of dogma. Revisionism holds a place in considering the influences which might, or more likely not, apply, but it is not nearly adequate as a substitute. And too many who have studied him, coming themselves from little or no prior backgrounding or knowledge, got his version and only his version and thus accepted it as dogma.

Zimm's intellectualism influenced most, if not all, of the American Left, directly and indirectly, as did Chomsky and others. Many of the disconnects they have with reality come from adhering too closely to his, and others, re-interpretations.

I completely agree about Zinn's obvious biases, and about him being used in conjunction with other sources.

Where you and I split is your partisan pidgeonholing of leftists as 'revisionists'. There's nothing 'revisionist' about providing information previously kept from people. If you want revisionism take a look at righties worshipping inclusion of God in government as 'tradition', when it never existed until halfway through the life of the country. The right uses the term 'revisionist' to define those who embrace supportable knowledge instead of blind tradition.

 

[PJABBER]

I completely agree about Zinn's obvious biases, and about him being used in conjunction with other sources.

Where you and I split is your partisan pidgeonholing of leftists as 'revisionists'. There's nothing 'revisionist' about providing information previously kept from people. If you want revisionism take a look at righties worshipping inclusion of God in government as 'tradition', when it never existed until halfway through the life of the country. The right uses the term 'revisionist' to define those who embrace supportable knowledge instead of blind tradition.

I don't think anything is necessarily being held back, it is always going to be about points of emphasis and interpretation, isn't it?

To a certain extent you are correct to hold the "Right" to account for some obvious, if not necessarily deliberate, distortions of history. There was a discussion outlining the differences between deism and theism here not so long ago that brought this out. I just read an interesting little piece here,

http://www.patrolmag.com/times/1678/whose-america-is-it-anyway

and elaborated here,

http://www.claremont.org/publications/pubid.394/pub_detail.asp

on the very topic.

The New York Times, itself an obvious bastion of the Left, had this in Zimm's obituary -

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/28/us/28zinn.html?ref=obituaries

“A People’s History” told an openly left-wing story. Professor Zinn accused Christopher Columbus and other explorers of committing genocide, picked apart presidents from Andrew Jackson to Franklin D. Roosevelt and celebrated workers, feminists and war resisters.

Even liberal historians were uneasy with Professor Zinn, who taught for many years at Boston University. Arthur M. Schlesinger Jr. once said: “I know he regards me as a dangerous reactionary. And I don’t take him very seriously. He’s a polemicist, not a historian.”

In a 1998 interview with The Associated Press, Professor Zinn acknowledged that he was not trying to write an objective history, or a complete one. He called his book a response to traditional works, the first chapter, not the last, of a new kind of history.

“There’s no such thing as a whole story; every story is incomplete,” Professor Zinn said. “My idea was the orthodox viewpoint has already been done a thousand times.”

His influence was long and deep. Just think of how many people have to listen to the derived, but oh so inadequate, parrotings of guys like Matt Damon and Ben Affleck that are mere shadows of Zimm.

"Howard Zinn's passing is the greatest loss to America since Karl Marx."

A Victim Of America

:awe:

 

[JAGUAR6CY]

Historian? Not one footnote or citation in his entire body of work.
Historian? Never found a dictator or mass murderer he didn't like.
Historian? Has never identified anything respectable or honorable in the
entire history of America.
Historian? Has never found one honorable motive in the entire history of
our country.
Historian? Uses every opportunity to encourage and justify hate
between all ethnic, political and racial groups.
His "work" consists entirely of hate and fantasy. He encourages racial hatred and romanticizes violence over votes. He would prefer a western world torn apart by racial, ethnic and fascist violence. Out of the turmoil he hoped to inspire, he wanted to establish a socialist and communist future for all of us.
Only fools would read, respect or follow his ideas. Sick and psychopathic are the only words that could apply to his writing.
Yet every high school, college and university uses him for "inspiration" and instruction at our expense. Are you a "liberal"? Why?

 

[JAGUAR6CY]

Zinn was a sad, sick and confused man but a man with a message. Here, in brief, is that message: There is nothing wrong in the world that the demise of the America will not cure. There is nothing wrong in the world that the rise of communism will not correct. America and its principles are founded entirely on lies, greed and corruption. Communism is the hope of the world. America has done nothing praiseworthy or laudable in its entire history. Communists are to be praised and supported for their goals, and never criticized for their methods. I will use no footnotes nor substantiate any facts in my writings, because facts would confuse the issues. Any historical resentment, hostility or jealousy I can resurrect and incite will hasten the end of Democracy and that is my only goal and motivation. High school, college and University teachers can be easily led and will be used to spread my propaganda. They are still being used today, at public expense.

 

[stateofbeasley]

Zinn was a sad, sick and confused man but a man with a message. Here, in brief, is that message: There is nothing wrong in the world that the demise of the America will not cure...

I heard him interviewed on a public radio show. Your characterization is inaccurate.

Zinn is upfront about his belief that the US Government is often up to no good, but he also said that Americans have always stood up and taken the government to task for its abuses.

As a Libertarian, I agree with him completely. Entrenched politicians and bureaucrats can and will abuse their power, but we have a system that allows citizens to right their wrongs. Perhaps this means a measure of chaos, but I think that chaos is necessary to prevent stagnation and authoritarianism.

 

[Whoozyerdaddy]

No loss. He can enjoy his place in hell next to Mao, Stalin, Che, and Pol Pot.

Ummm... I'm pretty sure there's no way to make the stretch from ideologue to mass murderer...

Don't know how you managed that one.

 

[CitizenKain]

Zinn was a sad, sick and confused man but a man with a message. Here, in brief, is that message: There is nothing wrong in the world that the demise of the America will not cure. There is nothing wrong in the world that the rise of communism will not correct. America and its principles are founded entirely on lies, greed and corruption. Communism is the hope of the world. America has done nothing praiseworthy or laudable in its entire history. Communists are to be praised and supported for their goals, and never criticized for their methods. I will use no footnotes nor substantiate any facts in my writings, because facts would confuse the issues. Any historical resentment, hostility or jealousy I can resurrect and incite will hasten the end of Democracy and that is my only goal and motivation. High school, college and University teachers can be easily led and will be used to spread my propaganda. They are still being used today, at public expense.

You are dumb.