Historical calories

[Kaido]

Great thread: (requires login)

https://twitter.com/x/status/1694842310625010144

Bonkers statistics:

This was a common finding: the more money people made, the more they ate, and the less they moved, but they were not obese!

In 1939, the US' book of agriculture shows that a moderately active male would eat ~3,500+ calories daily, and weighed around 154 pounds!

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Here is the compiled thread -

https://mem.ai/p/7mJODJFrIMhOReQqrX5N

 

[DAPUNISHER]

This "seed oils bad!" movement, how the hell did it start? Which oils are included? Corn? Soy? Sesame? I am not even certain what falls in the category.

I do see youtubers rage on this stuff, saying that most the people pushing this narrative are the ones injecting gear suspended in seed oils into their asses. Any insights on this topic? I know humans have been using oils derived from plants going back 1000s of years, which makes the topic even more confusing.

There was an M.D. in the comments that took them to task for not providing evidence to back up claims. Throws the whole post chain into serious doubt as to validity or seriousness. When you fail at accepting the burden of proof, and put it on others to prove it's not factual, you have jumped the shark. Why should I listen to anything you say if you are that unaware of how the scientific process works?

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

This "seed oils bad!" movement, how the hell did it start? Which oils are included? Corn? Soy? Sesame? I am not even certain what falls in the category.

I do see youtubers rage on this stuff, saying that most the people pushing this narrative are the ones injecting gear suspended in seed oils into their asses. Any insights on this topic? I know humans have been using oils derived from plants going back 1000s of years, which makes the topic even more confusing.

There was an M.D. in the comments that took them to task for not providing evidence to back up claims. Throws the whole post chain into serious doubt as to validity or seriousness. When you fail at accepting the burden of proof, and put it on others to prove it's not factual, you have jumped the shark. Why should I listen to anything you say if you are that unaware of how the scientific process works?

Much of the oils/fats bad trend stems from the AG (corn mostly) industry in the US pushing bunk science to schools for kiddos to learn to consume as much bread and grains as possible.

Also, old pictures of beaches are a bad litmus test, people used to have more shame and weren't likely to be fat in a swimsuit. Not that it's necessarily good, but if you took a snapshot from an average Midwestern movie theater I bet the demographic would have been more mixed.

 

[DAPUNISHER]

Much of the oils/fats bad trend stems from the AG (corn mostly) industry in the US pushing bunk science to schools for kiddos to learn to consume as much bread and grains as possible.

Yes, I am familiar with the history there. This isn't really that. It's heavy sloganeering from the fitness influencers like that douche the liver king (just using him as a prime example) have been pushing the "seed oils bad". I am wondering which oils qualify. Is it just the ones that are the results of extensive processing? How come it seems to be blowing up to be the new "gluten bad" crusade?

I agree about the old beach pics. The entire premise seems like bro science. The average male didn't live to see 50 years old in 1900. Any data from the 40s back is before Levitt style track housing with the modern household conveniences had time to fully proliferate, along with the burgeoning middle class. By the 70s when the heckin' chonker class was growing, most households had acquired those time and effort saving devices. I am not suggesting correlation equals causation, but you also can't neglect those data points when attempting to explain the big chonk.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Yes, I am familiar with the history there. This isn't really that. It's heavy sloganeering from the fitness influencers like that douche the liver king (just using him as a prime example) have been pushing the "seed oils bad". I am wondering which oils qualify. Is it just the ones that are the results of extensive processing? How come it seems to be blowing up to be the new "gluten bad" crusade?

I agree about the old beach pics. The entire premise seems like bro science. The average male didn't live to see 50 years old in 1900. Any data from the 40s back is before Levitt style track housing with the modern household conveniences had time to fully proliferate, along with the burgeoning middle class. By the 70s when the heckin' chonker class was growing, most households had acquired those time and effort saving devices. I am not suggesting correlation equals causation, but you also can't neglect those data points when attempting to explain the big chonk.

Oh my bad, I didn't even know there was some anti seed oil campaign. That's bunk regardless of who's saying it, seed oils are great.

People definitely had to move more back then just to function in society but the push for sugars in everything, fats bad carbs good, advertising to children, etc probably had more to do with it.

 

[Kaido]

Oh my bad, I didn't even know there was some anti seed oil campaign. That's bunk regardless of who's saying it, seed oils are great.

People definitely had to move more back then just to function in society but the push for sugars in everything, fats bad carbs good, advertising to children, etc probably had more to do with it.

 

[Torn Mind]

Labor is was real laboring back then.

I came across this doc regarding how bread was made in Victorian England....70 years before 1939

Also, 1939, wasn't that the time of the Depression?
Bakery work is still rough...my mom worked in the Safeway bakery because she was willing when no one else wanted to(out of the grocery store jobs, it is far more physically demanding than mere cashier).

 

[mike8675309]

1939 there wasn't processed foods. High caloric density drinks were not common. The average length of life for a man was 62.1 years.
No one was sitting on a couch staring at the TV for 3 hours a night. Nor were they sitting in their car for 2 hours a day to get to and from work. Those photos don't look like they are a location in the USA. The Mediterranean areas of the world had incredibly long-lived and low disability rates due to healthy diets and lower stress.

 

[Torn Mind]

Oh my bad, I didn't even know there was some anti seed oil campaign. That's bunk regardless of who's saying it, seed oils are great.

People definitely had to move more back then just to function in society but the push for sugars in everything, fats bad carbs good, advertising to children, etc probably had more to do with it.

Seed oils are problems because of trans fats, typical use, and hexane leftovers. All wind up as products harmful to human health. If someone buys a big bottle, stores it in a visible place in the kitchen, slowly uses it over a few months, and on the highest heat possible, that's not good due to the gradual deterioration of the product. Alkenes thirst for stability and O2 is willing to play and pierce. The frying pan(or deep fryer) is also a reaction playground.

Given that impeachment of the chemical would be utterly inevitable if a chemical analysis of fried veggie oil byproducts after high heat cooking is used, the scientists simply design studies that avoiding entering such high temps. The same applies to restaurant oil reused for a week or more.

0g of trans fats doesn't really mean zero in U.S legal speak. It's obvious why. Restaurants are in a precarious position and cheaper oils can mean the difference between a living business and death of the business, especially when they are in a pincer where big business wants to crush them and the laborers only care about more pay regardless of the business's health.

The experts consider the public clueless and impressionable, which is true. Most don't have experience in organic chemistry to understand the language. Scientific omission leads the reader to incorrect inferences. It would be very hard to find the exact trans fat that was implicated as harmful. Elaidic acid is that fat.

Rather call for puritanical avoidance, the folks at Havard employ false equivalence, using the grounds that certain natural foods also contain trans fats, without specifying the chemicals. Maybe that should be extended to other realms, like replacing propylene glycol with ethylene glycol (and wind up killing people).

Ask the Expert: Concerns about canola oil - The Nutrition Source

I’m confused about whether canola oil is healthy. I know that it’s a polyunsaturated fat, which I’m told is good, but then I also hear that I should stay away

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Cold-pressed oils or sesame oil don't go through the extra refining of the common vegetable oils.

 

[[DHT]Osiris]

Seed oils are problems because of trans fats, typical use, and hexane leftovers. All wind up as products harmful to human health. If someone buys a big bottle, stores it in a visible place in the kitchen, slowly uses it over a few months, and on the highest heat possible, that's not good due to the gradual deterioration of the product. Alkenes thirst for stability and O2 is willing to play and pierce. The frying pan(or deep fryer) is also a reaction playground.

Given that impeachment of the chemical would be utterly inevitable if a chemical analysis of fried veggie oil byproducts after high heat cooking is used, the scientists simply design studies that avoiding entering such high temps. The same applies to restaurant oil reused for a week or more.

0g of trans fats doesn't really mean zero in U.S legal speak. It's obvious why. Restaurants are in a precarious position and cheaper oils can mean the difference between a living business and death of the business, especially when they are in a pincer where big business wants to crush them and the laborers only care about more pay regardless of the business's health.

The experts consider the public clueless and impressionable, which is true. Most don't have experience in organic chemistry to understand the language. Scientific omission leads the reader to incorrect inferences. It would be very hard to find the exact trans fat that was implicated as harmful. Elaidic acid is that fat.

Rather call for puritanical avoidance, the folks at Havard employ false equivalence, using the grounds that certain natural foods also contain trans fats, without specifying the chemicals. Maybe that should be extended to other realms, like replacing propylene glycol with ethylene glycol (and wind up killing people).

Ask the Expert: Concerns about canola oil - The Nutrition Source

I’m confused about whether canola oil is healthy. I know that it’s a polyunsaturated fat, which I’m told is good, but then I also hear that I should stay away

www.hsph.harvard.edu

Cold-pressed oils or sesame oil don't go through the extra refining of the common vegetable oils.

I mean, if I'm not mistaken with what you're saying, you're saying that if stored incorrectly and/or burned, seed oils aren't good for you? Cuz that's the case for basically all food...