HK store's Nazi theme sparks fury

[gopunk]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: luvly
"and I suppose you know how many chinese died when japan invaded china? sure everyone here knows what happened during ww2, but not every school in the world teaches the same history."

I agree, Cheapgoose. History is told from the point of view of the victors or from the point of view of the narrator. My sister is reading a history novel about what the Americans aren't told. She read out some of the passages. It includes the events of WW II. I said to my siblings: I imagine how much controversy this book attracted.

Basically, I think the business in question should do whatever the hell it wants to do. Capitalism will take its natural cause if people don't like the idea of the clothing and symbol. The consumers should have a choice, for it's their form of free speech too.

Before anyone asks me: Would I object to a KKK symbol being sold by a business for instance? No. Once again, I'm an adamant supporter of the freedom of expression and thought. Free thought and expression doesn't always result in action.

Knowing HOW many is a detailed thought. Knowing that the Holocaust occurred requires much less time and effort. Think about it.

yea, but knowing whether or not people will get offended requires knowledge of the current western culture. the nazi symbols are used all the time in western culture as a sort of tongue in cheek humor... like on southpark when cartman was hitler for halloween. you would need more than to know the holocaust occured in order to figure out the difference in acceptability between that and this clothing line.

 

[bolido2000]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: luvly
"and I suppose you know how many chinese died when japan invaded china? sure everyone here knows what happened during ww2, but not every school in the world teaches the same history."

I agree, Cheapgoose. History is told from the point of view of the victors or from the point of view of the narrator. My sister is reading a history novel about what the Americans aren't told. She read out some of the passages. It includes the events of WW II. I said to my siblings: I imagine how much controversy this book attracted.

Basically, I think the business in question should do whatever the hell it wants to do. Capitalism will take its natural cause if people don't like the idea of the clothing and symbol. The consumers should have a choice, for it's their form of free speech too.

Before anyone asks me: Would I object to a KKK symbol being sold by a business for instance? No. Once again, I'm an adamant supporter of the freedom of expression and thought. Free thought and expression doesn't always result in action.

Knowing HOW many is a detailed thought. Knowing that the Holocaust occurred requires much less time and effort. Think about it.

yea, but knowing whether or not people will get offended requires knowledge of the current western culture. the nazi symbols are used all the time in western culture as a sort of tongue in cheek humor... like on southpark when cartman was hitler for halloween. you would need more than to know the holocaust occured in order to figure out the difference in acceptability between that and this clothing line.

True that. There is a sort of chinese restaurant in Venice beach that glorifies Mao Tse Tung and all the sh!t inside is about the little red book, pictures of him, etc. Obviously these people don't really know what he did to China.

 

[Grminalac]

People need to grow up, so some asians put a swastica on a sweatshit. If it sells... big deal. They aren't doing it to promote a ruthless dictatorship. (They already have that in china anyway) The chinese government has already commited more atrocities than the nazi regime on its own people. It would be nice for those bitching and complaing about something that happened a long time ago to get over it and try to make a difference right now in china.

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: luvly
"and I suppose you know how many chinese died when japan invaded china? sure everyone here knows what happened during ww2, but not every school in the world teaches the same history."

I agree, Cheapgoose. History is told from the point of view of the victors or from the point of view of the narrator. My sister is reading a history novel about what the Americans aren't told. She read out some of the passages. It includes the events of WW II. I said to my siblings: I imagine how much controversy this book attracted.

Basically, I think the business in question should do whatever the hell it wants to do. Capitalism will take its natural cause if people don't like the idea of the clothing and symbol. The consumers should have a choice, for it's their form of free speech too.

Before anyone asks me: Would I object to a KKK symbol being sold by a business for instance? No. Once again, I'm an adamant supporter of the freedom of expression and thought. Free thought and expression doesn't always result in action.

Knowing HOW many is a detailed thought. Knowing that the Holocaust occurred requires much less time and effort. Think about it.

yea, but knowing whether or not people will get offended requires knowledge of the current western culture. the nazi symbols are used all the time in western culture as a sort of tongue in cheek humor... like on southpark when cartman was hitler for halloween. you would need more than to know the holocaust occured in order to figure out the difference in acceptability between that and this clothing line.

I still think you are defending it too much. If you don't know if something offensive, then why use it?

 

[gopunk]

I still think you are defending it too much. If you don't know if something offensive, then why use it?

i'm not defending the use of the swastika, i'm just saying that we shouldn't confuse ignorance with malice and/or stupidity.

as for your question, haven't you ever done something that turned out to be offensive to somebody, even though you never had any clue it would be? when you are not aware that something is offensive, it usually doesn't occur to you that you shouldn't do it because it might be offensive. when i was little (5), i got a wound on my middle finger and showed it to the crossing guard. he threw me into the principal's office... i think it's unreasonable to put me at fault in that situation, even though you can say that i shouldn't have shown him my middle finger if i didn't know if it was offensive.

 

[NEWKILLA]

stoopid peeps do stoopid thangs


***K***

 

[ElFenix]

you'd think HK of all places, being under western rule for most of the last 100 years, would know

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: gopunk

I still think you are defending it too much. If you don't know if something offensive, then why use it?

i'm not defending the use of the swastika, i'm just saying that we shouldn't confuse ignorance with malice and/or stupidity.

as for your question, haven't you ever done something that turned out to be offensive to somebody, even though you never had any clue it would be? when you are not aware that something is offensive, it usually doesn't occur to you that you shouldn't do it because it might be offensive. when i was little (5), i got a wound on my middle finger and showed it to the crossing guard. he threw me into the principal's office... i think it's unreasonable to put me at fault in that situation, even though you can say that i shouldn't have shown him my middle finger if i didn't know if it was offensive.

No, I am sure it was done without malice, but I have to think ignorance and stupidity go hand and hand. If this was mainland china you could let it slide. This is HK. They were ruled for a long time by the West(like el fenix said). HK isn't some backwoods area in the mainland.

 

[KingofBladez]

nice way to get free publicity.

but anyway, perhaps the swastika has a positive connotation in China. I read The Rape of Nanking and there, a member of the nazi party used his influence to save people from being slaughtered by the Japanese. Simply flashing his swastika got him obedience from the Japanese soldiers. Just something to think about.

 

[UncleWai]

Remember the A&F T-shirt thread? I don't remember it as being so overwhelmingly one-sided.
Now the tide is turned and people are starting to realize controversy t-shirts are wrong.
I don't care if the message is conveyed blatantly or latently, it is just plain wrong to do so.
Also, as a hk person, I have never heard of "izzue", so let's not stereotyping us as being ignorant.
The company is probably composed of dumbass rich kids using their parents' money to start a clothing line,
which is a common theme in Hk's warped fashion/music culture.

 

[cheapgoose]

Originally posted by: Millennium

Originally posted by: gopunk

I still think you are defending it too much. If you don't know if something offensive, then why use it?

i'm not defending the use of the swastika, i'm just saying that we shouldn't confuse ignorance with malice and/or stupidity.

as for your question, haven't you ever done something that turned out to be offensive to somebody, even though you never had any clue it would be? when you are not aware that something is offensive, it usually doesn't occur to you that you shouldn't do it because it might be offensive. when i was little (5), i got a wound on my middle finger and showed it to the crossing guard. he threw me into the principal's office... i think it's unreasonable to put me at fault in that situation, even though you can say that i shouldn't have shown him my middle finger if i didn't know if it was offensive.

No, I am sure it was done without malice, but I have to think ignorance and stupidity go hand and hand. If this was mainland china you could let it slide. This is HK. They were ruled for a long time by the West(like el fenix said). HK isn't some backwoods area in the mainland.

you def. have a point there.

 

[cavemanmoron]

Originally posted by: Feldenak

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

Twice

duh the bombs were dopped in Japan,not China!

HONG KONG, China (AP) -- German and Israeli diplomats have lashed out at a Hong Kong fashion company for using swastikas and other Nazi party symbols in a clothing line and to decorate its chain of stores.

 

[flxnimprtmscl]

From the article

"These symbols brought a lot of pain not only over Europe, but over the whole world"

Uh, they did? I thought it was the soldiers who brought pain. Imagine that, all this time the swastika itself was running around killing people and I had no idea.

While I've obviously never gone though anything like the people who were affected by the reign of Hitler I'm of the opinion that it's just a symbol. Nothing more. Not really worth getting that worked up about. I mean, the freaking peace sign is actually Nero's Cross. Where are the people getting all worked up about that one? There are none, because it doesn't really matter.

 

[LongCoolMother]

they probably knew it had a negative connotation, but not that seriously.

kind of like the racist abercrombie shirts against asians. yea, they knew it was offensive, but it was just a joke, it wasnt supposed to REALLY piss people off. (it did still, wasnt that bad).

 

[GasX]

So, if I stick my ass in your face, it's just a symbol of my disgust for you and not actually a manifestation of it?

 

[Walleye]

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

that's japan dumbass

ever hear of a double entendre?

yes, but i guess i'm not smart enough to get it... what's the hidden meaning?

i'm *guessing* the meaning is that we dont care enough to make the distinction between japan and china...

which we dont. teehehehehe!

 

[dighn]

I'm sure they knew what the symbol stood for but I guess people there don't take it as personally as people here. It's a mistake but I don't think the intention is malicious.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: Walleye

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

that's japan dumbass

ever hear of a double entendre?

yes, but i guess i'm not smart enough to get it... what's the hidden meaning?

i'm *guessing* the meaning is that we dont care enough to make the distinction between japan and china...

which we dont. teehehehehe!

you're kidding right? they are two completely seperate countries.

 

[dighn]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: Walleye

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

that's japan dumbass

ever hear of a double entendre?

yes, but i guess i'm not smart enough to get it... what's the hidden meaning?

i'm *guessing* the meaning is that we dont care enough to make the distinction between japan and china...

which we dont. teehehehehe!

you're kidding right? they are two completely seperate countries.

nah, just like germany and england is the same thing

 

[Walleye]

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: Walleye

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

that's japan dumbass

ever hear of a double entendre?

yes, but i guess i'm not smart enough to get it... what's the hidden meaning?

i'm *guessing* the meaning is that we dont care enough to make the distinction between japan and china...

which we dont. teehehehehe!

you're kidding right? they are two completely seperate countries.

i dont think you're quite understanding me here.

i, as an american, just dont care


yes, i know they're separate countries.

 

[EvilYoda]

aaaaaaaagh, so much farkin ignorance here (and there, yes). Yes, it was a mistake, but it's been pointed out numerous times that the impact of those symbols simply aren't the same over there. stopping...brain hurting.

 

[LongCoolMother]

Originally posted by: dighn

Originally posted by: LongCoolMother

Originally posted by: Walleye

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding

Originally posted by: gopunk

Originally posted by: Mwilding
I think I am going to get a custom T-shirt that says, "I am glad we dropped the bomb on you slanty eyed bastards!"

that's japan dumbass

ever hear of a double entendre?

yes, but i guess i'm not smart enough to get it... what's the hidden meaning?

i'm *guessing* the meaning is that we dont care enough to make the distinction between japan and china...

which we dont. teehehehehe!

you're kidding right? they are two completely seperate countries.

nah, just like germany and england is the same thing

:Q!!!

 

[Walleye]

Originally posted by: dighn

nah, just like germany and england is the same thing

arent they all eurotrash?

j/k

 

[0roo0roo]

Actually hong kong is quite western. remember, as recently as 97, they were a british colony. are you sure the british didn't have the schools teach about ww2?

course hk is open to china now, maybe a chinese national had this idea

 

[Vic]

much ado about nothing...