"Hockey Dad" Who Killed His Kid's Hockey Coach - Your Thoughts?

[Nitemare]

Let the victims family decide




or hang em high

Personally I think something is really fishy with the guy. He killed someone..perjured himself about it..10 years should be the min maybe less if he can pass a lie detector test(which he won't) and more up to and including the death penalty if he fails.

He left the scene and had an opportunity to think over the situation and chose to go back to finish the job...sounds like premeditated 1st degree murder to me and not a pansy manslaughter charge.

 

[royaldank]

I didn't see the news yesterday...

Where does this trial stand? Are they in deliberation?

I think he should get a couple years and his picture should be plastered in every hockey rink, rec basketball center, little league field, or anywhere else children have rec. sports. Set an example and precedence that fighting over your child's recreational sports is not tolerated. Make sure parents understand this. I doubt he seriously wanted to kill the guy, but how many drunk drivers that have been charged with manslaughter actually set out to kill their victims? It's unfortunate that the man died, and he should be punished for causing it to happen.

 

[desy]

Yep he chose to go back and continue the confrontation. That is NOT self defence, he had the opportunity to walk away and he didn't.
Only one colledge student said all he saw was 3 punches other witnesses who worked at the facility said they saw a lot more.
Size does matter other wise there wouldn't be weight divisions in wrestling or boxing sorry.
If you have competators of equal skill, size matters.
I'm sure his self defence speech was very touching, I didn't see it all, but lets see he's trying to get off?
I don't even know how this poll could condone fighting in the stands as part of hocky? What?
On the ice is different, players know what they are getting into.

 

[SupaDupaCheez]

Wait.....this guy gets pissed at the coach because the kids were getting too violent. He has a verbal confrontation with the coach and is then told to leave. He then comes BACK after some time period and then gets into a PHYSICAL confrontation with the coach. He then pins the coach on the ground (coach is around 150 and the father is over 220) after beating the sh!t out of him. The father then claims that he had to hit the coach MORE because the coach was holding onto his WRIST and he couldnt get up! WHAT THE HELL IS THAT? He killed a guy for not controlling the violence in a violent game and then KILLS SOMEONE because of it? This guy deserves to go to jail for a LOOOONG time. I have a daughter and would be pissed if she were getting 'roughed up' during her soccer games but I would NEVER resort to physical confrontation (I'm not a small guy either) to prove my point. He will go down big because there was a 'cooling down' period (IE: no 'heat of the moment' defense).


SDC

 

[Nutz]

<< I mean the little guy probably could not even reach up to hit him in the face, anyways most fights end up on the ground after the first couple of blows are thrown and you can't tell me that weight and height are not an asset, granted you still need some coordination and ability to put that weight and size to your advantage >>



When I was 19 I went to a training seminar with my Sifu where we were teaching joint manipulation and restraining techniques to the Mahoning County Police Department. At the time I was ~5' 5" and 175 lbs. Needless to say, they were pretty sceptical. So to prove to everyone right then and there that size don't mean diddly I faced off with the biggest guy there. He was 6'9" 270 lbs. Thats over a foot in height and almost 100 pounds in his favor. I was done with him in 6 seconds.

 

[royaldank]

<< So to prove to everyone right then and there that size don't mean diddly I faced off with the biggest guy there. He was 6'9" 270 lbs. Thats over a foot in height and almost 100 pounds in his favor. I was done with him in 6 seconds. >>



Yeah, but was this 270 lbs guy on top of you smashing your head into the pavement? It's a little different when your both standing. And you would also agree, that while doesn't always matter, it can and does many times. Especially when people are untrained or very novice fighters.

 

[skace]

Size and Weight play a huge part in a basic street fight (which this seemed to be). Reflexes, speed, dexterity only come into play if you have some fighting skill (judo, karate, hand2hand training, etc). So in a basic street fight, YES HE CLEARLY HAD THE ADVANTAGE.

I love the self defense argument, but it falls flat on its face in my eyes. Lets look at the second encounter step by step:
1. Hes outside, after having an argument while his son is inside.
2. He may be worried about his son still since he was getting roughed up so he decides to go back inside.
3. He gets stopped by an innocent lady looking to keep things cool.
4. He could have asked her to get his son and the other boys for him and that they were going home, but no he....
5. Tossed her aside causing bruises to her arm (obviously CANNOT control or focus his anger and has turned violent).
6. So now he is back inside, we KNOW he is violent by what he did to the lady trying to block his entrance.
7. Now he gets in a fight with the coach, some say the coach started it, fine.
8. Coaches punches are clearly not connecting, but he is laying some smack down.
9. Coach is on the ground and he has his knee on the coaches chest, clearly has the fight and has succesfully defended his own life.
10. He proceeds to hit the coach in the skull and neck while he is on the ground causing massive injury and death. (GAME OVER FOLKS)

Am I missing anything? If not, steps 5 and 10 are the reasons I think he was not just acting in self defense and deserves quite a few years in jail. Besides, it wasn't self defense because it wasn't an unavoidable confrontation. HE CAUSED THE CONFRONTATION. Self defense is when you defend yourself from an unavoidable confrontation such as being mugged, raped, attacked, or having a burglar in your own home. Getting in a fight with someone you just had an argument with 10 seconds ago when you could have stayed away barely constitutes self defense.

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

Do you think the verdict will be out today?

 

[Nutz]

<< And you would also agree, that while doesn't always matter, it can and does many times. Especially when people are untrained or very novice fighters. >>



Thats a very good point.



<< love the self defense argument, but it falls flat on its face in my eyes. Lets look at the second encounter step by step:
1. Hes outside, after having an argument while his son is inside.
2. He may be worried about his son still since he was getting roughed up so he decides to go back inside.
3. He gets stopped by an innocent lady looking to keep things cool.
4. He could have asked her to get his son and the other boys for him and that they were going home, but no he....
5. Tossed her aside causing bruises to her arm (obviously CANNOT control or focus his anger and has turned violent).
6. So now he is back inside, we KNOW he is violent by what he did to the lady trying to block his entrance.
7. Now he gets in a fight with the coach, some say the coach started it, fine.
8. Coaches punches are clearly not connecting, but he is laying some smack down.
9. Coach is on the ground and he has his knee on the coaches chest, clearly has the fight and has succesfully defended his own life.
10. He proceeds to hit the coach in the skull and neck while he is on the ground causing massive injury and death. (GAME OVER FOLKS) >>



Thats just it. What exactly happened is still not fully known and what we have heard is totally speculative and up to interpretation. In fact, to my knowledge, one of the prosecution's witnesses inadvertently claimed to be in two places at once. This thing is far from truely being understood and we very well may NEVER know what exactly happened.

 

[JoeyJoeJoeJoe]

<< No crap, I referee hockey and parent's like this are becoming more and more common during games. I hate refereeing kids games anymore or kids tournaments since the action off the ice is becoming a lot more intense than what's going on on the ice. >>



Tell me about it. I umpire little league baseball and competitive ball, and it gets worse every year. I've had parents accuse me of fixing games, taking bribes, insulting their players, I even had some people from California tell me I've ruined their trip when their son's team loses in an elimination game and have to go back home because they think I made a bad call. I've heard it all. And this is happening in all sports too. It's sickening that these parents take it so seriously; STOP LIVING THROUGH YOUR KIDS AND LET THEM ENJOY THE GAME!

Of course there are people that compliment officials, but they're becoming an endangered species.

 

[jlind23]

<< I don't think it's self-defense. The reason is that this guy is taller and weighs 100+ lbs more than the guy he beat the living crap out of. Not only that, but my understanding is that he left the scene, and then came back. Doesn't sound like self-defense, it sounds more like he just got really, really pissed off, and just lost his temper.

-j >>



I hope your never on a jury if something like this happens to me....Being 6'4", 210# I have size over a lot of people, however there are a lot of smaller people that could kick my perverbial butt. I get in one lucky hit in defense and somehow it kills the guy you would be sending me to jail.

I don't know enough about this case in either direction, but in the one fight I have been in in my life I don't recall thinking, "If I hit him again it may kill him." At least not until after the fact. It's hard to predict what was going through this guys mind at the time.

 

[veryape]

What's taking so long for them to come up with a verdict? It looks open and shut to me, the only thing up in the air for me would be the sentence, seeing as he didn't intend on it. Manslaughter, that's what it's for.

 

[Beau]

<< What's taking so long for them to come up with a verdict? It looks open and shut to me, the only thing up in the air for me would be the sentence, seeing as he didn't intend on it. Manslaughter, that's what it's for. >>

Exactly. But you answered your own question.

 

[Beau]

Verdict In!!!!

Guilty of Involuntary Manslaughter

 

[Beau]

Bump - Updated the verdict

 

[DrizztDoUrden]

you cam still choose which punishment you think the guy deserves...i think there have been people
guilty of Involuntary Manslaugther who only got probation

 

[dirtboy]

<< no punishment, self defense. >>



Self defense is getting someone away from you just long enough to run away!

Either lock him away for life or give him the death penelty. The public needs self defense from people like this.

 

[RedFox1]

I think he got off very lucky with 'involuntary manslaughter.' I personally think it sounded more like 'manslaughter,' but I didn't hear the whole case I suppose.

-Russ

 

[Nutz]

<<
Self defense is getting someone away from you just long enough to run away!

Either lock him away for life or give him the death penelty. The public needs self defense from people like this. >>



Why isn't it manslaughter if a cop shoots someone and kills them? Couldn't they have just shot them in the leg?

Just something to think about.

 

[tcsenter]

<< When I was 19 I went to a training seminar with my Sifu where we were teaching joint manipulation and restraining techniques to the Mahoning County Police Department. At the time I was 5' 5" and 175 lbs. Needless to say, they were pretty sceptical. So to prove to everyone right then and there that size don't mean diddly I faced off with the biggest guy there. He was 6'9" 270 lbs. Thats over a foot in height and almost 100 pounds in his favor. I was done with him in 6 seconds. >>

hehe, I learned a LONG time ago that 'demonstrations' are about as unrealistic as Hollywood's portrayal of martial arts. When I was at Ayoob's Lethal Force Institute for the LFI-I course, I always got a kick when they used unsuspecting sheriff deputies who didn't know any better. The 270 pounder probably didn't want to hurt you, or didn't know what he was about to be subjected to.

Size matters, when all other things are considered equal. In order for 5'5" 175lb person to be "done" with someone who is 95lbs heavier and a foot taller than him in 6 seconds, the 270 pounder would have to be a completely uncoordinated and clumbsy oaf whose never been in a fight, while the shorter guy is not only experienced but in good shape.

I'm 5'8", 170lbs, and I've sparred with 250 pounders who are so strong that NO AMOUNT of leverage that I could muster with couter-resistance can overpower their raw joint and extremity strength. In order to get any leverage, I would literally have to catch them completely by suprise. But, if they were aware of what was happening, and they resisted before I successfully got the bar on them, there's no way its happening. I know a few guys who will LET you put them in an arm-bar or joint-lock, and LET you apply all the leverage you can muster, while they read the daily comics and giggle, they are so freaking strong you won't budge them with leverage, unless you're a much stronger man than I.

 

[db]

Sounds to me like the OTHER guy was a complete @sshole. That doesn't mean he should die, or that it's ok that he died b/c he's an @sshole, but notice that it was two people who were fighting, not one. Also note that the bigger guy had cuts and marks from the other guy's skates all over him b/c the guy was blading him. They're both FINE examples for the kids....

 

[MrCodeDude]

According to what I heard, the guy who killed the other guy instigated the fight and repeatedly punched the guy. And the thing is, did anyone get a look at the dad? I mean, he's huge. If it was self defense, why not just pin down the guy and like sit on him until the Cops arrive?
-- mrcodedude

 

[Nutz]

<< didn't know any better. The 270 pounder probably didn't want to hurt you, or didn't know what he was about to be subjected to. >>



The sceneario was quite simple really. He was to put himself in the mindset that he just came come from the store and the front door was open. He walks through the house and hears crying from the bedroom. He opens the door and finds me raping his wife just as I cut her throat. My only way out is through him. I wore elbow pads and he wore a motorcycle helmet, and then we went at it.



<< Size matters, when all other things are considered equal. In order for 5'5" 175lb person to be "done" with someone who is 95lbs heavier and a foot taller than him in 6 seconds, the 270 pounder would have to be a completely uncoordinated and clumbsy oaf whose never been in a fight, while the shorter guy is not only experienced but in good shape. >>



Believe me, he didn't hold back. The video proved it. Anyway, I'd absolutely disagree about size mattering. Once you reach a certain skill level size becomes irrelevant. When you are at that level (not saying I am), skill and attributes are king. At that level all size is is a better target for your opponent.

 

[SiLEighTy]

i caught a glimpse on court TV, and that guy who killed the coach, man he shure was a HUGE guy. i mean he would be a football player. And the guy he killed, he looked like he was only 90 pounds.

I really feel sorry for the family who lost a dad, son, & uncle.